Anyone ever remove the 'teeth' in a TD3 cant disc?

[kieran]

This year model for Intec also?

looks like it, at least for the intec cnc model;

SIZE: S 21,5 - 26,5 mondopoint (extra-midget)

SIZE: M 24,5 - 27,5 mondopoint (midget)

SIZE: L 26,5 - 31,0 mondopoint (regular)

:D

[pokkis]

Thanks, did not noticed that.

Would be interesting to see how they did it, due rear part looks like standard part.

But they could have modified Intec piece, or just drilled/punched holes to base as i did.

If some one has link to real picture of S size, please :)

Or if someone has access, then pelase comment how it is done

[Corey]

LOL! So much hate for an idea! ;)

This is how innovation and design improvements happen. Someone comes up with an idea, they test it. At that point it's either revealed as a very bad idea or something that will work. I've openly dismissed/mocked ideas that fellow designers have had in the past. Then I had to eat my hat when it worked perfectly well in a test. My gut feel is that the teeth are overkill and not needed to sustain the torque a human leg can withstand/generate, maybe I'm completely wrong. The real trick is figuring out what a valid test is.

I think this argument will swirl around the toilet bowl over and over until we see what torque a 'safe' binding can sustain, and then compare that to a toothless TD3. I have a set of each F2 and SnowPro that I can check first. I suspect I'll need video proof too.

Question: Do F2s and SnowPros ever spin in use? I'm assuming they don't, but maybe that's a bad assumption. Maybe the TD3 design adds an extra measure against that. If they do spin and are considered unsafe, then my above test is useless.

[Jack M]

Well, sounds like you better do it then! I doubt you'll injure yourself, but don't hold me to that. So you'll be out a few bucks for replacement cant discs, big deal. But my biggest fear would be what happens in a tumbling crash? I haven't had one in a long time, but...

[Neil Gendzwill]

Question: Do F2s and SnowPros ever spin in use? I'm assuming they don't, but maybe that's a bad assumption. Maybe the TD3 design adds an extra measure against that. If they do spin and are considered unsafe, then my above test is useless.

I had my insert pak pulled up slightly so that you couldn't generate enough pressure on the centre disc on my old Raichles (same design as F2). I couldn't rotate it by hand but it sure rotated on the hill. So the rubber ring requires significant pressure to work properly. Probably not that useful a data point but I can tell you that when it spins, it's likely to spin under heavy torque, meaning at a bad time. I was happy just to limp it down the hill after that so I could switch boards.

[stevo]

maybe we should remove part of the can't disk, you know like just a third or so that way we can just pop it out like a wedge move around the binding and hammer it back in place with a buddy's prosthetic leg that he has from when his binding spun after he took the teeth off.....

lol :lol:

[Bordy]

LOL! So much hate for an idea! ;)

This is how innovation and design improvements happen. Someone comes up with an idea, they test it. At that point it's either revealed as a very bad idea or something that will work. I've openly dismissed/mocked ideas that fellow designers have had in the past. Then I had to eat my hat when it worked perfectly well in a test. My gut feel is that the teeth are overkill and not needed to sustain the torque a human leg can withstand/generate, maybe I'm completely wrong. The real trick is figuring out what a valid test is.

I think this argument will swirl around the toilet bowl over and over until we see what torque a 'safe' binding can sustain, and then compare that to a toothless TD3. I have a set of each F2 and SnowPro that I can check first. I suspect I'll need video proof too.

Question: Do F2s and SnowPros ever spin in use? I'm assuming they don't, but maybe that's a bad assumption. Maybe the TD3 design adds an extra measure against that. If they do spin and are considered unsafe, then my above test is useless.

Cory... I don't care one bit what you do with your bindings for the record.....I am however surprised that you would rather remove pieces made to keep the binding from twisting to make it easier to adjust a binding that already adjust how you would like it to, just not as quickley or with the least amount of screw turning??? this just seems like a silly idea to a guy like me who doesnt mind turning screws in exchange for saftey..

As toward your tourge question, I think you would be surpised how much torque is made...Just as a reference.... Bindings will rip out inserts, and provide enough power to break a board in half, there must be some forces there... I have seen plastic binding toe n heel blocks, twist right off their mounting screws. Catek King pins.(big burley bolts} twist and fail, or "rip" the base plate hole up. Trench Digger base plates, binding plates, and bails break. If this is what happens to gear under riding, and crashing I think I would like as much redundint safteys as possible......

[Corey]

I'm running this experiment at my own risk, don't do it. Read all the doom and gloom warnings from last year before seeing how neat this might be. Even though I help around here as a moderator, I'm taking this action completely on my own and with no connection to Bomber. Doing this will definitely void the warranty on your bindings.

Come on - you're filing metal off your bindings! Of course your warranty is void!

I took a perfectly functional TD3 cant disc:

Then I ruined it:

With one of these and 5-10 minutes of work:

Note that you can still see the 'valleys' of the grooves. The diameter of this hole keeps your the TD3 cant disc and everything above it (including you) attached to the center disc. If you enlarge the hole, you reduce how much aluminum there is to bear these loads. That sounds like a terrible idea. I filed a bit, then checked if I could rotate the disc, and repeated until the disc spun.

Boring video of results:

First test will be Saturday. If I never return again, please consider this post to be a warning. I believe I'll be just fine, with the worst likely outcome to be a binding that shifts angles during the day. That WOULD be annoying and would make me throw these cants out. I think that's unlikely, as would anyone that's had to peel a TD3 E-ring off a topsheet.

I'm hoping I come back with a smug grin on my face at confirming that the same physics that hold an F2 binding on a board also work to hold a TD3 binding to a board.

[lowrider]

Would putting both halves in a lathe and beveling the teeth give you enough freedom to slightly raise the disc and rotate the binding ? He asks now after you have done it the hard way ? (Will we be seeing these for sale Monday by a new Winnipeg BOL member Post #1 ?? )

Edited December 20, 2013 by lowrider

[Corey]

We thought of that but had a heck of a time trying to center the cant ring in a 3-jaw chuck on a lathe. It looks like Fin doesn't closely control the outer face relative to the inner hole. It's a cosmetic relationship, not critical. I decided I could more easily finesse the removal of material by hand.

After looking closer at an assembled binding, there's not much room between the top plate and the center disc to move it upwards anyway. It'd be a pretty wimpy amount of material left.

If the bindings spin, it was a $30 mistake. I've made much bigger mistakes!

If they pull apart, then I'll hang my head in shame (in the hospital) at not understanding stress flow paths in metals as well as I thought I did.

[kieran]

That WOULD be annoying and would make me throw these cants out.

totally not cool. recycle! ;)

[piusthedrcarve]

I also wondered effectiveness of the gear teeth approach in center disc.

Phiokka had two types of center discs. One with just pressing center disc to hold (I think it is called Nino?) like F2 and the other that center disc is screwed to the base plate with 4 small screws (Highlander like). Those 4 screws are very small and i doubt it will prevent any tweaking if great torsional force is applied. It seemed stance angle indicator to me. I saw both of them were used on WC races years ago. In addition, the size of the older Phiokka's center disc is much smaller than F2 or TD2/3's.

So if those were used for gates by WC racers, I think it can hold torsional force from recreational carvers.

Very interested to see the result although I do not use TD3. Go for it Corey but be careful.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bobby Buggs]

Corey, while I applaud your risk taking here especially your knees, I am reminded of a young Bobby Buggs from 2001. A guy who was met with significant opposition, took apart and modified an expensive softball bat resulting in what some would say Evil results. 10 plus years later a company called Evil Sports sells over 1/2 a million dollars in products each year under the Evil Sports brand as a result of a slight risk and the disregard of opposition. Not saying this is the same thing or opportunity but look what happened to me 12 years ago.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Bobby Buggs

[BlueB]

Watching and following. Be careful, but I think it's going to be fine.

When I still rode TD2/3, the elastomers would always be so stuck to the top sheet, so much that I had to pray/peel them. However, the plate to base interface twisted on me few times and the toe block slid few times...

[Jack M]

I'm running this experiment at my own risk, don't do it.

Can I have your boards when you are crippled?

[GeoffV]

Can I have your boards when you are crippled?

The ECES will be raffling off Corey's gear at our banquet......:rolleyes:

All proceeds go to fund Corey's orthopedic surgery....

[Puddy Tat]

However, the plate to base interface twisted on me

This has happened to me a few times as well. Made for an interesting ride down. Back binding into carve mode, then rotate it down on the fly so I could skid, then back into carve mode... Then off to find a 5mm Allen wrench.

[forrest]

Hey Corey,

I do sympathize with your difficulty swapping bindings between boards etc, I have the same issue with my bindings

I do have an idea for you, too late unfortunately but oh well. When you have the bindings attached to the board the only part of the center disk which is contacting the cant disk is the top portion of teeth. I am able to raise up the center disk a bit before it hits the plate. The teeth on the center disk go the full depth of the disk. The lower portion of the teeth on the disk don't actually do anything. I would bet that if you simply filed off the teeth on the lower portion of the center disk you would be able to lift the center disk enough to allow the cant disk to rotate. AND you'd keep all the structural parts of the binding.

Walker

[kieran]

* Back story: I use M27 UPZ boots, the front and rear sole blocks cover two of the three bolts holding the baseplate to the cant disc, so a simple angle change means removing every bolt except the bail lugs - if I want to keep the same cant and lift settings with the new angles. I run almost pure toe/heel lift, so rotating the baseplates alone would introduce cant that I don't want.

if it were the binding subplate rather than the baseplate that had the lift angle machined into it, this would avoid the issue of incurring cant while rotating the top. interesting possibilities.

[lowrider]

The ECES will be raffling off Corey's gear at our banquet......:rolleyes:

All proceeds go to fund Corey's orthopedic surgery....

A

All Canadian citizens have Gov't funded Health Care that's why we are so creative and don't sue each other when we do silly things others suggest.

[breeseomatic]

Having size 26 boots and TD3 SW is not a great combo for easy angle and cant/lift adjustments.

Perhaps using a two part elastomer ring (one super soft on the base side) and removing some material off the center disk "teeth" could achieve the ability to rotate the cant bases by loosening the hardware as in Corey's video yet still retain the "locking" mechanism of the original design. I have the TD2 suspension kit and red e-ring to see if the concept could work.

I'm looking forward to the initial test results, good or bad. Hopefully there are no injuries.

[big canuck]

Corey you are just crazeeee!!

You clearly have too much time on your hands! Lol

Good luck dude

K

[lonbordin]

19 hours and no word. Quick someone call the Mounties... he must be off piste... stuck in a tree. Good gravy!

[Corey]

Haha, no riding yet. Stupid work! ;) Hopefully I'll be on the hill in about 11 hours. First runs this season for me! :D

I'll be riding the 'Dyck Cripplers' on a Coiler VSR 167 and a camo Madd 158, with the standard bindings on a Coiler Angrry 160. Well, hopefully I'll get to ride all three before death or surgery.

[Gcarve]

I'll be riding the 'Dyck Cripplers' ........

^^^:lol: Now that's funny! Of course if you get hurt I will delete this post, and offer my condolences to you and yours ;)