glenn Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Ok. It uses a proprietary insert pattern then. Still looks like an interesting, simple, and light system. Cheers, Dave Yes..An extra 4 inserts per plate in addition to the normal UPM or 4X4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 The version of the Gizmo I tried at the ECES in 2010 mounted right to my standard 4x4 board, has that changed? I was pleasantly surprised with the amount of "comfort" the system provided, albeit at the expense of some snow feel and responsiveness, but at that time my biggest critique was the weight. The plates on Glenn's board look identical, have they been lightened somehow? Perhaps hollowed out with ribbing underneath? Jack, That Gizmo that you tried was a three plate system that would mate to the 4X4 pattern. This revised version does away with the two piece lower plate, so the top plate fastens to the isolators and the isolators are connected directly into the inserts on the board (Gizmo pattern). It's substantially lighter than the original. Due to the design,the isolators can't turn out (not that that was an issue on the originals but it's something else that can't go wrong on the new ones)... Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) ah, that is good to hear! should be a lot lighter, and with much less of a footprint. Edited January 18, 2013 by Jack Michaud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmartshopper Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Thats just what they call it. I think Never Summer created it, it looks like carbon fiber. Donek uses it on the Rev race boards. Yeah, carbonium is a stupid name, but I think it's really is a good topsheet material. So far has been very durable and has a slightly rough but low friction hard plastic texture. Very much like one of those hard surface mouse pads if you've ever tried one. I think custom graphics might not look as nice as on a normal topsheet since there's no depth or glassiness to the finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkaholic Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) The carbonium topsheets work well with surface mounted plates like vist or K-plate due to the slippery finish. I use a similarly slippery self adhesive when using Vist to protect the board and for better performance. Ink Edited January 18, 2013 by inkaholic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 Hi All. I’ve been lurking recently on a ‘Smart Phone’ from which I had no intention of even trying to respond until I could get some time on a computer. I’d like to answer some inquiries about the Gizmo’s. The original intention was to prove or dis-prove an idea that I had. After some time away from boarding, upon return ‘Titanal’ was the talk of the town. In two years, board construction had advanced (or so it seemed) to the point where I wouldn’t be able to ride my antiques. Board builders were now using Titanal and Rubber in their construction to dampen the ride, etc. Heck I thought, if a thin sheet of rubber can dampen that much imagine what I could do using rubber Isolators. Although most if not all plates at the time were (and still are) of a single plate design, I chose to go with a two plate design as I am a ‘pedaler’, and more interested in recreational riding. Thus the first set of Gizmo’s were built to either prove or dis-prove this idea. After a season of riding them on my own to prove their safety to myself (I’d never even think about asking someone else to try something I myself didn’t feel safe) I felt they were safe and did what I was hoping (Isolating the rider from negative feedback of the Ice Coast terrain, chatter, ice, etc.) so I was ready to seek others (better riders) feedback. I approached one of the best and most aggressive riders I knew at our local hill and showed him what I had, and asked if he would be interested in trying them. He liked the idea, and was more than willing to try them. A week later I seen him riding and finally caught up with him to ask his opinion. He smiled and replied, “forget it you are not getting them back” ! When I finally figured out he was serious and really liked them, I felt more confident in the concept and what I myself had felt. From then on, it has been a constant process of trying to improve the original design. Several changes have been made over the years, today I am actually testing Revision XII on my own boards. The concept is simple, rubber isolation. Much like that of a motor mount, shock absorber or sway bar bushings in an automobile. Anyone that has ever been involved with any type of race car that does not use a rubber motor mounts or shock / sway bar bushings knows what I am talking about. Maybe Ok for the track, but not so much for the street. It won’t take long before you’ll have some extensive dental bills from your teeth being rattled out of your mouth. The Isolators provide true isolation as there is no metal fastener attaching the board to the binding for the negative feedback / vibration to be transmitted through, to the rider. Cold weather effectiveness ? The isolators temperature ratings vary anywhere from -10*F to +150*F and -80*F to +300*F depending on their durometer. I personally have never noticed any change in feel from temperature and have ridden the isolators rated for -10*F in temperatures substantially less with no issues. The drawback that has kept me from attempting to market the system is the fact that while the isolators are rated for compression and shear, they are not rated for extension. I have always told everyone that has shown interest or tried the system of this fact. Obviously, when you compress one side or corner of the plate you are extending the other. To date, I have never had an isolator related problem other than one that I caught from the manufacture while doing pre-installation testing. Positives & Negatives: I have had some, what I consider to be ‘very high end riders’ try the Gizmo’s as they can provide much better feedback than I am capable of. They have even had use (although I never dreamed it) by some recreational racers. The negatives are (A) added weight (as in all plate systems) and (B) sluggish feeling edge to edge (snow feel). I have added two additional durometer isolators (firmer) for testing this season to see if they will help rectify this feeling. Most if not all feel they are great for the Recreational Rider, which is what the design was originally intended for. The positives I’ve heard are (A) extended riding time (B) less wear and tear on my knees © made my stiff old board fun to ride again. I have (2) different mounting systems. (System 1) The original system that mounts to the standard 4X4 pattern is essentially bottom split plates (to allow better board flexion than the original 1 piece solid plate) with the 4X4 hole pattern in it that mounts to the board, 4 isolators (1) in each corner are attached to the bottom plates, and a top plate which is attached to the isolators and drilled and tapped for the binding to mount to. (System 2) uses inserts installed into the board (thus eliminating the weight of the bottom plates). The Original Gizmo’s weighed over 5 lbs. Revision XII that I am currently testing on my own boards weighs 765 grams or 1.6865 lbs. or 26.985 ounces (weights are with all related hardware). I am not looking to sell anything other than the concept as I do not have the capital to pursue this any further than I already have. I’d love to see someone take it to the next level for all to enjoy. I do have a couple sets of the 4X4 Gizmo’s made up for people interested to try. If there is any interest, I would bring them to SES for you to try in trade for your feedback. Take Care / Be Safe -- jp1 Glenn, Jack actually tested Revision II 'Gizmo's' which still had the single (solid, before splitting) Bottom Plate, which indeed had a huge footprint ! I have also since then gone with a better grade material which allows them to also be thinner thus lighter. 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glenn Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 Yes...The plates are made by John Philkill (JP1 on bomber). They're designed to isolate the rider from the board like the other plate designs that are popular now. They allow independent foot movement/input and are surprisingly light (under 2 lbs. if I recall correctly)... You'd have to check with John on that...I've used an earlier design of John's plates and liked them so decided to use them on this new ride...I'm sure John would be more than willing to fill you in on all the details. Great guy and thoughtful machinist/designer I checked with John and he says the plates that are on my board weigh 2.45 lbs. so a little more than I thought but not a drawback by any means...Some say the weight adds stability. I don't know if that's true or not but it's certainly not something that takes any getting used to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmartshopper Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 The drawback that has kept me from attempting to market the system is the fact that while the isolators are rated for compression and shear, they are not rated for extension. I have always told everyone that has shown interest or tried the system of this fact. Obviously, when you compress one side or corner of the plate you are extending the other. Do you have any more detailed pictures? Was wondering how the rubber is in tension. I would have guessed you'd use sort of a bushing stack (2) with the plate sandwitched in the middle. Kind of a like a skateboard truck works: skateboard_truck_pic But the macro pic looks like the top is flush. Sounds interesting... just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 The isolators have a metal plate on the bottom with a male (6 mm X 1) threaded stud and a metal plate on the top that is tapped (6mm X1) with rubber or silicone, (depending on the durometer) vulcanized to the plates. No metal attachment between the top and bottom plates, only rubber / silicone. Search, McMaster / Carr, vibration isolators. jp1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLN Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 JP1, may be you can share the photos of a plate? Like one on a Glenn board? I'm now using a elevators, under my F2 Race Ti, but I tog some thoughts to put this on my softie. The one plate on Glenn board looks interesting to me, and i like to get some more shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 The isolators have a metal plate on the bottom with a male (6 mm X 1) threaded stud and a metal plate on the top that is tapped (6mm X1) with rubber or silicone, (depending on the durometer) vulcanized to the plates. No metal attachment between the top and bottom plates, only rubber / silicone.Search, McMaster / Carr, vibration isolators. jp1 Can you transfer your detailed description of your design plus some photos into the Plate Design thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 SunSurfer, sounds like a plan as I don't want to clog up the NBP area anyway. I'm computer illeterate and time is scarce so it's not worth the aggrevation for me to even try, but I will see if I can get help posting some pictures when I get a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tastar Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Since the other one didn't stick, I am posting my own (albeit generic design) carving monster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Since the other one didn't stick, I am posting my own (albeit generic design) carving monster...[ATTACH]32891[/ATTACH] Perhaps you could alter the original (offensive) pasting er i mean posting. A tassle here a tassle there ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tastar Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Perhaps you could alter the original (offensive) pasting er i mean posting. A tassle here a tassle there ? I've seen another more recent pic of it covered mostly, by a plate :-) Will look it up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tastar Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Kosher? The board is called "Anja". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpletiesto Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Here's my equipment for 12/13: New for this winter season are board no. 1, 2 and 5 seen from the left hand side. Boots are new as well :) I tried to send you a PM, but I think you have that disabled currently. I was just curious if you know anyone else who might be selling a Black Pearl. I'm so curious about these boards. If you do, please let me know =) Those boards are sweet as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I tried to send you a PM, but I think you have that disabled currently. I was just curious if you know anyone else who might be selling a Black Pearl. I'm so curious about these boards. If you do, please let me know =) Those boards are sweet as. Curious about the length of your boards as they appear to be longer than the trend i'm seeing on the other side of the pond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmatic Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I was just curious if you know anyone else who might be selling a Black Pearl. I'm so curious about these boards. If you do, please let me know =) Those boards are sweet as. We can find now something between 400 to 500 piece of Black Pearl's out on the World. And anywhere on the World, there can be found the right letterbox, e.g. for Your orders: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 The New Board Porn thread needs less talking and some new board porn. ;) Coiler Angrry 160 with my design of topsheet. It's a Pisten Bully winch cat laid on a graph paper background. It's a tribute to the fine folks that let us have so much fun on acres of corduroy, plus a nod to my tech geek side. Bruce delivers a beautiful product time after time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 You planning to plate that puppy up, Corey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Coiler Angrry 160 with my design of topsheet. This is one of the boards I've short-listed to fill the short board slot in my quiver. Really interested in hearing your ride report. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilux Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 ^ @ Corey Oh my god, that looks like soooo much fun! Love the cat on there too. What plate are you tossing on there? Have you tried one of these before? I've been debating for my next board to go fun and short or get something ECish...after seeing this (and waiting for your review of course) I'm leaning towards short and turny to get around all of those meat gates when the crowds are out. Very slick indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 No plate yet. I'm still on the fence, typically preferring riding without a plate unless the grooming is terrible. However, it's really nice to have the option to put something like the Donek F plate on it if I ever decide to. This board is slated to be used when the hill is crowded, icy, or if I just feel like making as many turns as possible. I rode an Angrry 2 years ago at SES - it was very grin-inducing. It tired me out quick as the board just wants to make SOOO many turns. It's an interesting change from the big boards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliechocolate Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 [ATTACH]33152[/ATTACH] Hubba hubba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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