beetle3 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 My buddy and I broke kessler 162s in the same spot just above the front binding? It cracked and ripped the p tex wide open and the whole edge and base is loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I broke an old 185, just in front of front inserts. I was riding it with a plate and thumbled over the nose. Kessler or not Kessler, in front of the front binding is the most common spot to brake an alpine board... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarvingScooby Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 My buddy and I broke kessler 162s in the same spot just above the front binding? It cracked and ripped the p tex wide open and the whole edge and base is loose. Which top sheet version - Metal Top (MT), Black Top (BT) or White Top (WT)? And p-tex that is wide open is that BASE side or Top sheet? I've seen MT "Bent" on top side. Never seen P-tex top sheet (MT&WT) bent or cracked. I've nose dived - full dead stop and roll on both my BT171 & 180 and survive, actually twice on my 180. I wud think it will bent if that was a MT. RT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donek Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 If it's going to break, it's most likely to break in front of the front binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davekempmeister Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 My buddy and I broke kessler 162s in the same spot just above the front binding? It cracked and ripped the p tex wide open and the whole edge and base is loose. yes, my wife. she heard quite a bit about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle3 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I broke the black top sheet and Marian broke a white top sheet. We both had bomber boiler plates installed. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle3 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Never had problem with board until putting boiler plate on two months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarder_Ted Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I suspect we will be seeing more and more of this with more people riding plates. In putting a plate on a board, you are effectively creating a two foot long lever arm. The force of both feet is now transferred to a point in front of the front binding. The stiffer the plate, the more force you end up putting there since the flex of the plate will absorb less of the energy. It all gets transferred to the front binding. A riding style that places a lot of weight toward the nose or riding with the rear knee pulled in toward the front will make it worse. With no plate, that force from the rear leg is distributed more evenly along the board between the feet. This was something I noticed when I first rode a plate on a board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Now the post play analysis! Were these plates using the UPM or 4X4 hardware and the snow conditions at the time , Into which inserts were the plate hardware mounted. Perhaps a word of caution to other; a plate on a board will allow it to flex differently than the same board with bindings mounted directly to the board. The plate eliminates the flat spot on the board (normally created by your weight pushing down where the bindings are mounted.( glass boards tend to stand up to the plate loads better than a metal board. Point loading on a metal board is a little more critical. Remember what happened with TD1's on a metal board? Plated boards need to be built differently than an unplated board. Thanks for the heads up guys sorry for your loss. If you are in the market for a new board for your plate you might want to consult with Dr. Coiler i hear he has something new in the works involving plates. Don't tell him i sent you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarvingScooby Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I broke the black top sheet and Marian broke a white top sheet. We both had bomber boiler plates installed.Scott There you go, first time I heard. Wud be great if u share pixs. Good to know, about the plates. FYI: I don't use plates on both. Recently I took over a custom 2011-12 KST WT-183 made for APEX plate and I noticed the difference in the thickness where the inserts are and also it extend slightly longer pass where the inserts but then decrease the thickness dramatically instead gradual (I compare with SG FR185). Both SG and KST are made for 180lbs but the KST is so much stiffer on the nose and tail. Never try plate on the KST WT, not yet. RT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I would look to see if there were any marks on the bottom of the plate to suggest that the front edge of metal housing that holds the axle bushing in the front plate mechanism had impinged on the bottom of the plate. If the mechanism impinges on the plate at this point then further bending forces applied to the front of the board do not get spread along the whole board. Now the front part bends against the sharp edge of the base of the front plate mechanism, apply enough pressure & BOOF! one broken board, or plate. The clearance issue is more of a problem at the sliding end of the plate mechanism because of the greater length of that axle bushing housing. Professional and amateur plate designers/builders (Fin, Sean Martin, lowrider, myself and others) will all have made varying decisions about how much clearance is needed to reasonably prevent this occurring. How much depends in part on the radius of the curve the board takes when under normal loads compared with, say an extreme load in a sudden stop. Boards would fail, before plates were invented, under extreme bending loads against the sharp edges of front binding plates. Hence people made spacers to go under the bindings to try and spread the loads. SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davekempmeister Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 no plate involved in my case - metal topsheet 185 KST - i was using the catek polycarbonate spacers but i don't think they were a culprit. after licking my wounds and lots of thought, i concluded that some of the board's magic comes at this cost. it's tough but the boards are made to win races and not made with longevity in mind for the recreational type (me). i still sometimes think that if it wins races under the stresses of Olympians and World Cup riders, it should hold up to me. that's faulty logic because they break them too - the difference is they just reach for another. (i got another - i can't help it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrutton Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Can you guys post some pics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcaple Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Just as a thought........ I had two boards break last season, not Kessler's, however, both breaks were just above the front binding, in both cases it was confirmed that boards broke on the spot where the liner pin hole used to align the multiple layers of material, both manufactures have since changed the location of the pin to further up the nose of the board to avoid the high stress area. This manufacturing change resulted in far fewer breaks. And both were replaced free of charge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcarve Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 both manufactures have since changed the location of the pin to further up the nose of the board to avoid the high stress area. This manufacturing change resulted in far fewer breaks. Which two manufacturers changed the pin location? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrutton Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 If the mechanism impinges on the plate at this point then further bending forces applied to the front of the board do not get spread along the whole board. Now the front part bends against the sharp edge of the base of the front plate mechanism, apply enough pressure & BOOF! one broken board, or plate. I guess that is why they have a bumper under the duck-bill, to reduce that point load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Lets not dwell on the negatives (glass half full thing) just think how much fun was being had on these boards with the plates just before they self destructed. Now the owners get to enjoy a whole new set of thrills specking out their new boards and deciding do i stick with 4x4 or commit to UPM (If you have to think about this you need a new helmet too ! UPM, UPM, UPM) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 UPM is a half-solution. Plates, to become really functional and usefull to an average alpine rider, as well to stop destroying the boards, need to be trouly integrasted in the boards and way lighter, and slider mechsnisms need to dissapear. In other words board/plate system, from the factory, as "one piece". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 UPM is a half-solution. Plates, to become really functional and usefull to an average alpine rider, as well to stop destroying the boards, need to be trouly integrasted in the boards and way lighter, and slider mechsnisms need to dissapear. In other words board/plate system, from the factory, as "one piece". Unfortunately some sort of sliding part of the mechanism is required for any isocline plate to do its' thing. The geometric principles underpinning the concept make this self evident. For anyone who is unclear about how plates work, read the Alpine Snowboard Plate Systems thread with care. SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Maybe... Or, maybe some latteral thinking is required ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apex Insider Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Our first race plate hit the snow in the summer of 2009. Since then, we've sold a lot of plates to World Cup and other FIS carded athletes. Total snow days must number in the tens of thousands. In all that time, the number of plate related board failures have numbered exactly - zero. And to get back to the original poster's question - I've heard of Kessler boards breaking. And I've heard of Oxess, SG, Coiler, Jasey Jay, Black Pearl and F2 breaking. If someone builds an unbreakable board, you won't want to ride it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogokoenig Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 If someone builds an unbreakable board, you won't want to ride it. Second that! I'd rather have my board broken, than my leg. Next to that, I'll stick to my statement that plates (as constructed nowadays) will disappear from the freecarving sector in a couple of years. You have to sacrifice too many benefits for just a marginal improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Frank from Virus had an interesting setup at SES. No moving parts, rubber bushings only between the board and plate. Looked quite simple, though I'd imagine those bushings have a hard (and possibly short) life. He mentioned that tuning could be done by changing bushing durometer of the various 12 bushings. Edited February 28, 2012 by corey_dyck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkaholic Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Frank from Virus had an interesting setup at SES. No moving parts, rubber bushings only between the board and plate. Looked quite simple, though I'd imagine those bushings have a hard (and possibly short) life.He mentioned that tuning could be done by changing bushing durometer of the various 12 bushings. This design made me think of JP1's Gizmo with a single top plate. I have 2 days on this board now. It is a super fun board to ride. We had very wind scoured conditions on Sunday and the board did a good job of isolating me from the chatter beneath me. I currently have it set up asym, under toe and heel, and don't notice anything weird riding it. I get instant pressure when tipping the board up on edge. The one thing that I notice is that it doesn't allow the board to flex quite as smoothly into the arc as a hinge/slide design does. This plate does have the "duckbill" style of design. Sorry, OT moment there. As others have said, any board can break. I think davekempmeister said it best in post #12 Ink Video that Futahaguro posted in the Yo LCI! thread with this board under me. http://vimeo.com/m/37441922 Edited February 28, 2012 by inkaholic added vid link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburrill Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Metal boards are great. But they wear out. And sometimes break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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