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What are your Angles?


barryj

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... I can tuck my back knee right into my front.

Oh, no, no, no, we are not going there! Please guys. Really.

Angles...

Ski, monoski, skwall: 0/0

Carve: Whatever puts me close to the edge (over or under) on a given board, front never less then 45, splay 5 to 10.

Freeride, pow: Front 45, rear 35 to 25, depending on the board width.

Teach softbooters (on hardboots): beginers +20/-5, advanced +25/+5

Lifts cants...

Carve: Front small toe lift, back big heel lift, no cant

Freeride, pow: As above but with inward cant back

Teach: Small toe lift front, small heel lift back, no cants

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I have been riding for over 20 some yrs with hard plates. I used to be forced on old burtons (5 bolt bindings) to ride a splay stance with the rear angle less than the front. Once they went to 3d bindings, I was able to get my back foot in tight.

Mind you, I used to ride asymetrics and the old school style. I used to feel awkward with my rear knee poking out from my body. Now, with a 7 degree lift, and 2 degrees more rear angle, I can get my knees in a good form that feels very fluid. I propbably lose more edge power, but I ride stiff boots and it gives me the control I need.

But it is an evolution when you have been riding a long time. Some good habits, and some bad. But the style you started with always hangs around I guess....

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Have you a firm grasp on why 'most' prefer splay to parallel?

Bones and their articular surfaces are not always 'straight', and for some, a toed-in stance reduces joint stress.

No, all I know is when I see surfers or skateboarders, who ride in what I could say is the most "natural" position a body occupies on a board, I've never seen someone's rear leg tucked and twisted further inward than their front leg. Ouch.

Or when people slide on a slippery floor. Or a quick look at the Vitruvian Man; natural body mechanics give us a built splay that should be adapted into binding setup.

For the same reason I can also say people who ride parallel angles are weird. And those who ride goofy. And guys who ride on skwals: psychos. Oh yea, that guy with that hat, he's different from me, also weird. You too Beckmann.

In addition I cant imagine it being easy to tilt the board on edge and pressure it hard enough to make a hockey stop with such a setup.

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I run the lowest rear foot angles I can for a given board width (using Fuego method), and then about 5-7 degrees more for the front foot. That gives more underhang than I'd like on the front foot, but my knees are happier for it. My knees are even happier at 10+ degrees of splay, but I don't like how it affects my riding.

For the same reason I can also say people who ride parallel angles are weird. And those who ride goofy. And guys who ride on skwals: psychos. Oh yea, that guy with that hat, he's different from me, also weird. You too Beckmann.

I laughed!

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Hockey stop?? Is that a quote from Aspen Extreme (the skier movie)?

:lol:

Again, as many folks will tell you, you ride what feels right. When I get my knees in line together and let my waist move with the board more fluidly. And this is always about personal preferences. How ever you ride your best is the right way. If you see my setup, you might go WTH...? But you see my lines and fall line, there is no question.

Any time you are wanting to eat snow, I will be glad to demonstrate my hockey stop!! LOL

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On skateboard i see people ride quite often with pigeon setup.

For real???? Well... there go all my supposedly infallible preconceived notions, you've left me now with nothing pokkis, do you realize that? Nothing. No... no... I will still hold on to them. Pokkis, you and those longboard freaks are all wrong, all wrong, stop sort out your bones and joints and then we'll talk.

Lamberto, how else would you call a quick sudden stop that sprays snow? I hereby vote to introduce such nouveau nomenclature into our lexicon ("our"...), including with the aptly named term: "bomber-style".

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Ha, I would say that maneuvre is called "dickie". Or at least that is what the youngsters say in the lift line when I give them a few inches of fresh powder in the face.....

I do not know what else to call it. Hockey stop is the old term I used a long time ago. But I never came up with a better term for spray. Perhaps the term should be edge spray? Or is it a forecast term, like snowy with a chance of dusting....I like the "dusting" term....

Did we mention to be a really good BOL or EC you need to be double jointed? That way heelside and toeside carves are really the same....

:eplus2:

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"Hockey stop" is a term used in CASI, too. At the end of the day, we invented the hockey ;) (Canadians, not CASI :D ).

DH longboarders use pigeon toed tuck. Some slalom skateboarders have toed-in stance too.

On a snowboard, I feel more locked into the carve with parallel or toed-in stance, and more mobile with a splay. More splay I put in, easier it becomes to do sliding turns, moguls, etc, while the heel side carves suffer a bit.

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...natural body mechanics give us a built splay that should be adapted into binding setup.

A bit like saying if you can't operate the gear selector when your seat is too far back, sit a bit anti-clockwise to extend your reach...

Though splay is a statistical normality, that does not imply that it is the functional ideal for all 'boarding' applications. Splay on a snowboard is derived in large part from the conformation of the feet, particularly the mobility of the first metatarsals, (and influenced to some extent by the nature of the knees and hips while under load).

At a fixed stance width, a rider with even a small degree of mobility at the first metatarsal(s) would bear too much weight on the 'blades' of the feet, if those feet were parallel. And/or, the ankle joint would be stressed. Add splay, and the mobility is accounted for, at least to the degree that the rider is now 'comfortable', with more 'bones on the floor'. Of course you have not addressed the collapse of the foot, attendant loss of ROM at the ankle, nor how that may influence ROM/joint tracking further up the chain.

Comfort is a good starting point, but does not begin to account for all of the possibilities involved in an 'effective' stance. Ideally, one would consider all of the inputs necessary for quality riding, and then accommodate those, comfort, the need for an effective load bearing structure, unhindered joint articulation, and muscular efficiency.

The best stance is the one with the fewest compromises.

In addition I cant imagine it being easy to tilt the board on edge and pressure it hard enough to make a hockey stop with such a setup.

I can't imagine only one effective way to execute a 'Canadian Power Slide'....

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