Jack M Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Found this video in the Jasey Jay Snowboards thread. There is so much Extreme Carving video online, but it seems nobody has gone to a similar level of effort to produce much in the way of video of "the other" style of carving - what the EC'ers call Bomber Style. I hope to take on that project someday. Little things like a career and a family keep getting in the way. Although the video is amateur, I think this clip is a good example of race-derived upright upper body technique. No idea who the rider is. Anyone? My hat is off to him. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vqBNjxAWjs8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Post it on the Quebec page might get a responce, it's not at Tremblant JJ's home turf but the local Quebec riders may know if it's anything close to them. May be out west (canada) Cyprus where JJ did some early testing. The picture of the lift should be a giveaway to anyone farmiliar with the hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 with the green trousers and green rc-10's, i thuoght it was wintergold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafcadio Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Thanks for the find. That's so beautiful. I always find myself searching again and again for that one great video I saw of a great heel side or whatever. It would be nice if there were a page of "best of" videos for demonstrating different techniques and styles. I could imagine something to compliment the Bomber Tech Articles... all these wonderful articles by Jack and others could be even more useful if augmented by some nice video collections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xy9ine Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 i support your endeavour, jack. this is the style i aspire to, and see so few examples on video. ec doesn't really do much for me; hard charging race inspired ripping like this definately fuels my stoke. rad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0815-fahrer Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 @ Jack... did some fast research.... probably it is a Japanese Rider, Manabu Kobayashi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Correct, that is Manabu who is a sponsored rider of Winter Tree our (Bombers) Japanese distributor. He is riding our Sidewinder with new BP lowers on a JJ board in that video. An amazing rider and technically flawless. At the Copper ace in the Fall you could always tell it was him coming down the hill no matter how far away he was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExcelsiorTheFathead Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Slightly OT perhaps, but what is this style called? French? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Slightly OT perhaps, but what is this style called? French? gunfighter / knuckledragger? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Slightly OT perhaps, but what is this style called? French? IMHO that is what I would call more "bomber style", facing the front of the board most of the time. The original thread video, I would call race style, with minimum torsion/rotary at the waist and hips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhD Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 .... It would be nice if there were a page of "best of" videos for demonstrating different techniques and styles. .... It would be cool. Especially if all the "Here's how I look from the other end of a stick through a wide angle lens. Aren't I cool? Watch what my lips do when the horizon tilts.:barf:" clips were exiled to a Hero Hell folder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 IMHO that is what I would call more "bomber style", facing the front of the board most of the time. The original thread video, I would call race style, with minimum torsion/rotary at the waist and hips. I respectfully and completely disagree, "Bomber Style" as far as I know has never advocated tilting the shoulders into the hill, bunny hopping, and forcing the knees together like that. Quite the opposite, actually. It would be cool. Especially if all the "Here's how I look from the other end of a stick through a wide angle lens. Aren't I cool? Watch what my lips do when the horizon tilts.:barf:" clips were exiled to a Hero Hell folder. Oh hell yes!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I respectfully and completely disagree, "Bomber Style" as far as I know has never advocated tilting the shoulders into the hill, bunny hopping, and forcing the knees together like that. Quite the opposite, actually.D Sorry, I meant more the shoulders square to tip of the board, rather than the other stuff. Generally the only people I see riding like the first video are racers. Few free carvers maintain their torso in line with their boots throughout heel and toe side turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Ong Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 To my untrained eye the Manabu technique looks the way all the modern racers do it, reminds me of Bordy and Bruce. The 2nd vid is probably represents the typical bol'er more often than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Sorry, I meant more the shoulders square to tip of the board, rather than the other stuff. Generally the only people I see riding like the first video are racers. Few free carvers maintain their torso in line with their boots throughout heel and toe side turns. I think it's more than a few. Granted, in the past I would advise to face the nose, but only to get beginner carvers away from facing the toeside edge of the board. A habit left over from my instructing days where I found I had to tell people to exaggerate a movement in order to hit the target. Facing the binding angles is the ultimate goal, IMO. I've recently updated The Norm articles to say this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I think it's more than a few. Granted, in the past I would advise to face the nose, but only to get beginner carvers away from facing the toeside edge of the board. A habit left over from my instructing days where I found I had to tell people to exaggerate a movement in order to hit the target. Facing the binding angles is the ultimate goal, IMO. I've recently updated The Norm articles to say this. I hear you, This does seem to be the trend. Philfell's postings over the years have been a big influence on me for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 This not a EC vid for sure Here is a quick vid that Dave and I put together on New years day to test some camera angles. There is not much steep terrain open so you can see the difference in upper body movements based on the pitch, I am also riding a 21cm wide board so my angles are low with 25.5 UPZ. I think they are like 45 40 ish. I think it shows that level shoulders are not always the correct way to keep balance and that both styes of riding are neccesary to make angles based on pitch and speed On steeper terrain, having level sholders maintains balance with a more foward stance (50+ degress) and as your board gets wider and angles lower keeping your upper boad alined with your skeletal frame creates the most edge pressure and angles on mellow terrain. Being able to change your style to create the most edge pressure and grip based on the terrain is what being a strong rider is all about. My style changes based on the Board width, boot flex, bindings, snowconditions, hill pitch, coarse conditions, etc.... It is all about balance and using your gear to it fullest. I ride a Madd 158 much different then a SG SL board, or a F2 Beamer asym. The goal I tend to set for my athletes is to ride gear that lets them stay in balance on pitch since that is were most coarses are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I agree technique should change with gear if it is much different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boardguru Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Nice video Bordy. Location? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmax Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 ... and that both styes of riding are neccesary to make angles based on pitch and speed Hi Billy! Thanks for that great post. After starting reading this Thread, I was wondering whether I should start an argument about Jack's 'Norm' of riding. (Sorry Jack, I don't think there is and should be a 'Norm'). Until I read your post, which just hits the nail: All Styles are great, and to master riding means to be able to vary between all Styles and techniques depending on the conditions or the mood of the rider, and in the end to have fun, without any 'Norm'! Cheers Max Unfortunately, I won't make it to SES again this year, :( but the time will come for my third visit. Till then, I want to be able to ride backwards as you do... So I should start training... maybe... someday.... :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogokoenig Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I agree technique should change with gear if it is much different. Like that statement! I would even go a step further or two: Technique should also change with the terrain and can as well change with your personal desires. At this point we can talk about style. Style - to my understanding - is the personal touch, the rider adds to his riding. The way the word "style" is often used - also at the beginning of the thread - implies so many limitations and also leads to classifications of what is right and what is wrong. I often have discussions where people limit themselves to certain "styles", whereas I think this so called "style" is just one single riding technique which itself is derived from a much bigger and variable toolbox. At the end every riding technique is derived from that toolbox. The better you know the tools, the more you are free to develop the proper technique and finally your own style. I like very much the old-school riding in the second video. It looks like the guy has some fun and his technique is very close to one of the two techniques that have been taught to german snowboard instructors in the mid 90s. Shoulders only slightly move into the turn, you bend your legs during the turn and stretch them quickly for transition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I think the 'norm' exercise is more of a starting point to get a rider comfortable with letting a board carve on it's own, not a final goal for technique. I found it quite useful to help realize that you can eliminate all the extraneous movements and just let the board turn on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc-alex Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 @ Jack... did some fast research....probably it is a Japanese Rider, Manabu Kobayashi. Correct Eric, he rides JJA since this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 After starting reading this Thread, I was wondering whether I should start an argument about Jack's 'Norm' of riding. (Sorry Jack, I don't think there is and should be a 'Norm'). The articles explain that "Norm" is being used in the geometric sense, as perpendicular. It is not being used to mean normal as in typical or correct. Until I read your post, which just hits the nail: All Styles are great, and to master riding means to be able to vary between all Styles and techniques depending on the conditions or the mood of the rider, and in the end to have fun, without any 'Norm'! Of course it is essential to have more than one technique in your repertoire. I think the 'norm' exercise is more of a starting point to get a rider comfortable with letting a board carve on it's own, not a final goal for technique. I found it quite useful to help realize that you can eliminate all the extraneous movements and just let the board turn on its own. Correct, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I think that there should be a foundation of fundamental skills that gets anyone going in a way that they can easily build on those skills in the future.Concepts like the Norm facilitate that. Then,like my grandpa used to tell me about grammar and vocabulary,"After you learn the language you can screw it up anyway you like". That's why I have so much fun carving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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