sic t 2 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 well, my first day back on hardboots in 5 years (180 fc donek/td1 canted) occurred last week !! :D was a real eye opener for me. riding a quality hb equipment for the first time in my life was a pleasant experience. comfortable, precise, stable, damp. nothing like my old, "fold the nose" Burton Alp with its narrow stance and mousetrap bindings. As the day progressed and I started to put down some g's in the turns but had a few scary moments too. it seems that my push-pull sb style was a bit too much for the hb's. specifically, when I tried to execute a hard cross over the board would carve too deep, too quick and I would find myself executing an unplanned cross under ,,, never crashed but after 2 or 3 of these frights I started staying super low so the board could not carve out from under me. then, since you are that low its totally natural to square up the shoulders to be already prepared for the toeside. There you have it, Bomber style, out of nothing, because its what keeps you alive. (( high energy consumer though )) now the EC based style of push-pull did not just emerge in my sb riding from experience. I had to study the EC site for a long time (like years) to get the technique. And the reason it works so well in sb's is that it enables you to unload some g's from the board at the critical moment of a carve (mid-turn / perpendicular to fall line) so the board won't blowout but will continue to sweep uphill so you can bleed speed off. That, I find is the only way to carve super steep groomers on softboots. Of course, it takes nerves of steel to initiate as you have to go to full leg extension just before the board points straight downhill. That is really unnatural, spooky and that takes a lot of practice. So I do not hesitate in branding that technique a learned "style" since its not what emerges naturally, but something that takes a lot of guidance to learn. ((( Anyway, enjoyed my hb day. the TD1's are really nice in all respects. little works of art, a please to work on to get the optimal adjustment. And the Donek 180 / FC / 11.2 ... if I was blindfolded when I was buckled into it I would have guess it to be a 157 with a 7.6 it turns tight tight !! ))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Just like Surfing and Skating Histories, people come along and try to grab credit for themselves Like I said, it was the EC guys who came up with the name "Bomber Style". Nobody here had given it a name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 after 2 or 3 of these frights I started staying super low so the board could not carve out from under me. then, since you are that low its totally natural to square up the shoulders to be already prepared for the toeside. There you have it, Bomber style, out of nothing, because its what keeps you alive. (( high energy consumer though )) There are many names for it but you figured it out, we called it the Ice Coast survival technique and yes its a Major Energy drainer. It was not out of nothing it was out of necessity or as the Carve Father would say, "You dont wanna be bighten Baark" I can only say this from memory as I have YET TO EVEN PUT MY BOOTS ON!!!:mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 There are many names for it but you figured it out, we called it the Ice Coast survival technique and yes its a Major Energy drainer. It was not out of nothing it was out of necessity or as the Carve Father would say, "You dont wanna be bighten Baak"I can only say this from memory as I have YET TO EVEN PUT MY BOOTS ON!!!:mad: Not good, Bobby! B-East this week in the cards? We gotta get you on the snow. Rode today at Butternut on true Ice-Coast crispies - never fell but feel like someone hit my left buttock with a baseball bat just from getting sooo low all day.... First day with BTS installed on my 325s. Felt great about heelside but toeside seemed slower to initiate - wonder why that was? Liftie asked "Is that a lot like a snowboard?" Made lot of turns on my 160 so wasn't riding too fast - some guy on skis followed me down for half a dozen runs and then rode the lift up with me. Interesting chat. Dude joined the Navy in 1939 so I figure he was 90...:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Jonny, that's the beauty of the BTS, you now have 'adjustability'. Try adjusting the springs for a little more forward lean. If that don't help, Experiment ......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Jonny, I have to head down to Hyde park Thursday and Friday this week. Hopefully next week. I will have another metal Coiler later next week so you can use one when we do hook up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 The Cern Ski club website had a great page on French vs. Swiss style of riding. This was some time ago, however the site discussed the difference between Swiss race inspired carve vs. a French shoulders square with the board "free carve" inspired carve. I seem to be a little lost on how people have been describing their style of carving lately, however I certainly am excited that so many people are getting technical. I personally describe the type of carving I do by the conditions I ride. 1) Icy narrow slopes: 40% of the time I am riding these types of conditions. Turning across narrow slopes makes you turn your board in a short amount of time. Your choices of turning are pretty much dictated by the narrowness of the slope. When icy conditions are involved, I feel best having a race inspired type of carve. In this sense if my board starts to slip while carving a turn, my upper body is centered over my board giving me the ability to regain my edge grip. The steeper the slope gets the more important it is to center my body along the board length, drive my turns with my knees and flex into the turn initiating with a steep edge angle. 2) Icy wide slopes: 30% of the time I am riding these types of conditions. Once again I ride with the race inspired type of carving similar to the one Jack Michaud posted earlier. The difference between icy narrow and icy wide is that their sometimes is some salvageable carving snow along the sides of the slope. It becomes a little easier to lean my body in towards the slope and rub my chest, hip or both along the slope while still trying to remain consistent with a race style type of carve. 3) Hard pack slopes: 20% of the time I am riding on hard pack slopes. While steep or not it is much easier to apply the ec type of riding. Steeper slopes require me to stay with a turn as long as possible to carve slightly up hill and control speed. Extension is easier and less edge slip will occur. I will still race carve but usually only for slalom type turns while crossing flat areas. I think it is fun to see how many turns can be rounded in a given length of slope. 4) Soft pack slopes: 9% of the time I am riding these type of conditions. These are the type of conditions you may see on the extreme carving site with the two French guys riding ec style. Let it all out because the conditions for carving don't get any better than this. Anything goes including a mix of all types. 5) 1% powder: Here is where I fall apart. I feel that this is where I seem to lose my ability to carve. I have been in powder conditions a few times in my life. My riding style seems to get a little funky where I will lean back and try to carve with the back 2/3 rds of my board only. It is very fun but I don't seem to have the knack for it. In general I ride East Coast Hard/Ice pack. My riding is dictated by the snow conditions I ride in, slope wideness and slope steepness. I try to keep a race inspired carve because I feel it gives me the best control over my riding in icier terrain. When conditions allow, I will ride different styles of riding especially a slalom push-pull technique where my upper body remains silent as my board crosses under it. I'm not sure how all this fits in with other descriptive styles mentioned but I'm sure it does somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmax Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Have you ever been in a main resort in the Alps esp Austria? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 nice write-up jt. sounds like we have a similar outlook on things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 nice write-up jt. sounds like we have a similar outlook on things. Agreed!! Thank for your efforts JT!! Nicely done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sic t 2 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Nice writeup. An an eye for detail that could only come from someone with actual race coaching experience You know, JT, your ability to precisely align your full body weight over your tracking edge has always been (in my mind) a very distinct style onto itself. Of course we all have our variations, day to day, even by who we are riding with, but overall; you really have something unique going on there. Perhaps we can shoot some video, the next time we ride together, and share it with the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I think it may be better to film EricJ or Joe (cafercr). At least those guys ride hard boots. I think that my type of riding may be suited for riders that ride soft boots with steep angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sic t 2 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I think it may be better to film EricJ or Joe (cafercr). At least those guys ride hard boots. I think that my type of riding may be suited for riders that ride soft boots with steep angles. Its so hard to describe a style in words. I guess that is why Jack started this thread with a video. But I would not push softboots on this site anyway. I was thinking hb, assuming u still had your equipment. You know, the sun just came out, spent yesterday at Hunter on sb with 8 maniac skiers. I think I'll go hb locally right now and try to get some style back. Yesterday was just a bomb fest (and not the kind of bombing we have been talking about on here ! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Nice writeup. An an eye for detail that could only come from someone with actual race coaching experience You know, JT, your ability to precisely align your full body weight over your tracking edge has always been (in my mind) a very distinct style onto itself. Of course we all have our variations, day to day, even by who we are riding with, but overall; you really have something unique going on there. Perhaps we can shoot some video, the next time we ride together, and share it with the forum. This from my personal experiences in different disciplines describes the Basic Technique found in a variety of disciplines that utilize the "Stance" . While Styles come from the individuals who have worked on mastering the Technique and types of Equipment they choose.... Riding the Edge Hard and or Light is the Technique right? I remember watching CK ride and race... Pic by Guy Motil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Don't carve the powder. Surf it. ^^ This ^^:biggthump There are times Not to carve, thats where versatility shines. While free riding in hard boots is not an optimal set up for most, I enjoy it as long as Im not on some 18cm pencil. I call it chasing my board down the hill:D and Im not even thinking about laying down turns, just taking what the Mtn is giving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 ^^ This ^^:biggthump There are times Not to carve, thats where versatility shines. While free riding in hard boots is not an optimal set up for most, I enjoy it as long as Im not on some 18cm pencil. I call it chasing my board down the hill:D and Im not even thinking about laying down turns, just taking what the Mtn is giving. Run what ya brung! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Believe it or not Sic t 2, I sold all my hard boot equipment about 7 years ago. There were a few guys who influenced me to go back to softboots and carve. One of those guys I met at my local mountain (Mountain Creek). He was carving softboots then riding switch and carving switch. Realizing that I couldn't ride like this guy when in hard boots, I started to ride my soft deck with soft boots more. Now it's all I ride (all thanks to him). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sic t 2 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Believe it or not Sic t 2, I sold all my hard boot equipment about 7 years ago. There were a few guys who influenced me to go back to softboots and carve. One of those guys I met at my local mountain (Mountain Creek). He was carving softboots then riding switch and carving switch. Realizing that I couldn't ride like this guy when in hard boots, I started to ride my soft deck with soft boots more. Now it's all I ride (all thanks to him). its been 7 years already,,,,, :D funny how that goes... I just met a guy, through my off-road motorcycle racing, who persuaded me to give hardboots a try again. Given I still had my Burton Winds he loaned me the Donek and the TD1's. for now, I will be riding Bomber Style (or its kissing cousin, "race influenced carve") so that I can stay low and out of trouble on the board. Of course, being the nutcase I am you know that I am already trying to burn 360's on it. Getting about 270 now. If I can't get there with Bomber style I'll go back to my push-pull. That'll get-r-done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Bomber Style was what happened when I walked up Aspen Mt. years ago and rode a Snowster from the Sun deck down Spar to the bottom of little Nell... and in closing I want to be Clear... There is not One Move or Style or Technique that I have used on a Snowboard over the last 26 years that I did not learn prior on a Skateboard and a Surfboard a long time ago and many years before I ever stepped on a Snowboard. The Moshun is the Moshun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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