Neil Gendzwill Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 The articles explain that "Norm" is being used in the geometric sense, as perpendicular. It is not being used to mean normal as in typical or correct.This is where the engineering lingo (or "propeller-head geek" as my wife likes to say) gets in the way. Maybe there's a better term for regular humans than "norm" that doesn't have connotations of "right and only way to do it". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 This is where the engineering lingo (or "propeller-head geek" as my wife likes to say) gets in the way. Maybe there's a better term for regular humans than "norm" that doesn't have connotations of "right and only way to do it". Perhaps. But if some people are going judge and dismiss an article by its title only, without reading it... well... From the 3rd paragraph: "The turn is created solely by leaning to one side or the other while maintaining a rigid beam-like body perpendicular to (i.e. 'normal' to) the plane of the snowboard." That should remove any doubt as to the use of the term. Anyway I didn't name it. I think it was a PSIA term. I learned it from Beckman first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Anyway I didn't name it. I think it was a PSIA term. I heard it from Beckman first. Not PSIA... From the (2005) footnotes to the original (1994) text. "(24) Norm. There was a photo once, in, I think, Transworld, of a guy dropping some air looking like he was standing on the sidewalk. Casual, arms at his side, not going for a grab or anything. At the time I was trying to get people to stand up more so as not to be kinked all over the place while trying to simply ride out the sidecut on easy terrain. It worked, so it was used more often. Terry, one of the wits on staff at the time, thought the drill looked a lot like the photo. I don’t really know why he referred to it as ‘the norm’. In retrospect, it makes sense since the basic sidecut turn is a reference point, and this type of turn can be made while standing totally upright…" Terry referred to the guy in the photo as Norm. As in Norman, though with the second connotation that his image represented a postural baseline. Without the back story, it is easy to assume that 'the Norm' suggested a particular style or technique, when in fact it did not. It was simply a tool for washing out all of the postural junk interfering with solid edge use, much as Hercules diverted a river to hose out the Augean stables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Ha! Well there it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xy9ine Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 some nice sl turns here too: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmax Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Sorry Jack. My fault. Was a bit mislead by the term Norm, in connection with a 'Style'-Thread with filling and pressing great rides into the boxes of 'Eurocarve', 'Bomberstyle' etc... About me not reading the articles: Well, I personally try to learn on the slope with others, not in a virtual environment Cheers Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0815-fahrer Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Do not excuse yourselves too early, Max... I personally think you are right.. and so is Norm(an).... and Jack... How could you (and I admit... I... ) know there is a section around, currently updated somewhere, called Norm, but without a referral as spoken of it?? Paragraph 23, section 2 seems to give the answer... where the heck is it? As a wannabe-scientist... I would also state the term "Norm" directly as "the least it (you) must forfill /must-have-level" ... and that would be definitely crazy. After seeing Beckmanns post.... Why call it Norm?? just call it "inclination only" and we are all at the same level of thoughts again... It is an insider term, I guess............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Sorry Jack. My fault. Was a bit mislead by the term Norm, in connection with a 'Style'-Thread with filling and pressing great rides into the boxes of 'Eurocarve', 'Bomberstyle' etc...About me not reading the articles: Well, I personally try to learn on the slope with others, not in a virtual environment Cheers Max No worries, I should have linked to the articles instead of assuming everyone knew what I was referring to. Sorry for that. Here they are, part 1 and part 2. They're intended to help people get started with carving if they don't have anyone to show them in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Thanks for the find. That's so beautiful. I always find myself searching again and again for that one great video I saw of a great heel side or whatever. It would be nice if there were a page of "best of" videos for demonstrating different techniques and styles. I could imagine something to compliment the Bomber Tech Articles... all these wonderful articles by Jack and others could be even more useful if augmented by some nice video collections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 It is the Mother of Invention...IMHO All Snowboards can Carve an edge... Alpine equipment makes it easier to Carve an edge on Steeper and harder snow... You must place your weight in the correct spot for the equipment to use its full potential. Knowing where and how to Ride the Edge is a learned ability...practice and dedication is what produces the results you are after... once you have a full understanding of the equipment in all varying conditions, as well as all its different attributes then you develop a Style. If you have experience in other sports that utilize the same dynamics to turn the equipment then your Style can utilize that experience as well. Necessity dictates Technique and Style is how you like to Dance.The remark that Alpine equipment is needed to effect a "Real Pure Carve" as stated on Wikipedia is of course not True. EC as well as Bomber Style have been around since the very beginning when their only name was Fun! The Techniques have changed ever so slightly due to changes in equipment materials and shapes as they have been developed over the last 40 years or so...:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkman Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Well said Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 The remark that Alpine equipment is needed to effect a "Real Pure Carve" as stated on Wikipedia is of course not True. Wikipedia does not say that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_snowboarding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 no Doubt here Jack...the Most Efficient is often the Most Pure :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Nice video Bordy. Location? Park City, Utah...Great place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Found this video in the Jasey Jay Snowboards thread. There is so much Extreme Carving video online, but it seems nobody has gone to a similar level of effort to produce much in the way of video of "the other" style of carving - what the EC'ers call Bomber Style. I hope to take on that project someday. Little things like a career and a family keep getting in the way.Although the video is amateur, I think this clip is a good example of race-derived upright upper body technique. No idea who the rider is. Anyone? My hat is off to him. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vqBNjxAWjs8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Great ride! Anybody know the artist on that sound trac? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 IMMHO Bomber Style started many years ago...before most of you were born...:) in the minds of Skaters and Surfers in the 60's such as Tom Sims in the bottom pic...thanks to Tom, as well as all the others, for pushing the envelope! These folks took the Stance and Techniques used in Skating and Surfing and put it on a snowboard. Hopefully the Final History of Alpine will share this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTwoO Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Found this video in the Jasey Jay Snowboards thread. There is so much Extreme Carving video online, but it seems nobody has gone to a similar level of effort to produce much in the way of video of "the other" style of carving - what the EC'ers call Bomber Style. I hope to take on that project someday. Little things like a career and a family keep getting in the way.Although the video is amateur, I think this clip is a good example of race-derived upright upper body technique. No idea who the rider is. Anyone? My hat is off to him. <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vqBNjxAWjs8" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe> May I have one run like this before I die?? PLEASE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian M Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Great video and great thread! One of my favourite aspects of carving is that no two riders look the same - everyone has their own style that comes from their personality, gear, and past experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 IMMHO Bomber Style started many years ago...before most of you were born. Probably not: http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=35412 Those pics are awesome though. Look at the lad on the skateboard pencil pinching!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacopodotti Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hi Jack I could say that more or less the words "Bomber Style" is something that I've invented during endless posts on the italian part of the Extreme Carving Forum, specifically intending what I've read on your articles. There were a bit of confusion between what was called classic style, race style, french style, swiss style etc You know, italians talks so much. :-) So as said for us nowdays when we speak about styles, we more or less agree to use three main styles. Extreme Carving or Eurocarving, before Swiss Style with rotation and push pull. Bomber Style, shoulder leveled to the ground more frontal position of the body a lot of leg work up and down, please correct me if I'm wrong. Race style or Classic style, shoulder leveled with the board and in line with the hips which has in Italy two main masters Pisoni more classic and powerful, Rabanser more innovative and smooth more close to the teachings from my friend Marc Cirigliano who's book in my opinion is a must read for every hardbooter and who's Youtube channel is something to watch and study again and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 the King showing the "Stance" way back when... the King and Moon doggie were the Style, all others followed to where we are today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacopodotti Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Here you could find and endless post on hard videos http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4972 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian M Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Marc Cirigliano who's book in my opinion is a must read for every hardbooter and who's Youtube channel is something to watch and study again and again. Has anyone read this book? Very curious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacopodotti Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 You could find Marc between the guys on this forum.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 The Stance came from Surfing and Skating! The Styles come from Surfing and Skating... Try EC or any of your Swiss, French, Bomber Styles on a Monoski... and Just like Surfing and Skating Histories, people come along and try to grab credit for themselves... Each Board is like a guitar string, your Style is your Music and the Track is History... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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