Madd issues

[Shred Gruumer]

Settle down you! go ride NC and give us the report.. what no snow?

hehe!

[Mellow Yellow]

more snow than you!

:p :p

[Kirk]

Oh, it's a 170 - sorry.

Love to try the 158 now! Hmmmmm!

[Guest Ghostrider]

The limited bbaM I seems to be a bit of a collectors item.

I can't lay down the cash for this idea, but it should be good for Moxie...ebay it. Put the reserve at what you got into it. Lots of people want Madds and now youve got a bbaM with quite a bit of recognition. Its like the Madd celebrity. Or do the bidding here since everybody in the forum is gonna be the only ones knowing its TRUE value :D

OR! just give the board to me cuz that was such an awesome idea and the board is totally worthless ;)

..ok..ok...I'll pay shipping.

[John Gilmour]

Seeing all the funny stuff working with Madd Mike- (yeah he is SUPER dyslexic- for real,- I had to do all the correspondence and proof reading)

But his dyslexia is what allows him to travel fearlessly- even in Asia because he navigates in a different way than the rest of us- he finds unususal stuff that way. That is how he got the super deals for Madd mike's Bitchin' boards on Thayer Street in Boston- many moons ago.

Anyhow- I'll gladly take "The Decapitator" 170cm (don't care much for the name and the way I ride....it will certainly get me in trouble with ski patrol) if you want you can have my "Grand Prix" 170cm. If you don't want a board called Grand Prix....well I guess they will get right on it. I can easily understand how this one would get past Mike.

As company owners- we never got to ride first quality stock....we couldn't afford it- so we rode the occasional blem. So why change now?

[Bobby Buggs]

I was informed today that my 170 has retarded graphics too. I bet since my board has those graphics its going to ride Better than all the others:D

I have been offered the opportunity to wait for another board or accept this one. Not sure what I wll do yet. I was Never a fan of those graphics to begin with so to me it wont matter. Infact, I will know its mine when amungst a pack of alpine fools.

[philfell]

John, it's not a matter of quality control, or if the defect happened to slip by Mike because he is dyslexic. Cheri admitted that they knew about the mistake before shipping it out. The fact that they new they were shipping out a blem or defected board to a customer and didn't contact the customer is wrong. Now they want the board back and for him to wait over a month for a new one.

Another question I have is that why would it take Mike a week to put a grind on a board?! Especially for a customer that got a raw deal. Drop your board off to Lats at Renstall and he'll have your board done in a day or two if he's backed up. Since many member of the U.S. Snowboard Team, as well as other world cup athletes have him do their boards the quality is there.

[John Gilmour]

Phil- all due respect- if you think for a moment that there wouldn't be some glitches in the first run of boards in 10 years....................

Everyone gets taken care of in the end- and if Moxie wants to ride this deck and then get a new one....where's the problem with that? At least he has something to ride. As for shipping- I'm sure Cheri will send hima UPS call tag so the shipping is on us- he'll be out a strip of tape to reseal the box.

Why are the boards done in Italy? Because the people who build them by hand them don't live here.

Some might argue that Ferrari should move all of its production stateside- besides we buy a lot of those Ferraris.

I drove a Mercedes ML 320 for a year- actually a 1999 model and A 2000 model. It was a "German car" made in Tuscalousa Alabama. My body shop guy was commenting how right off the production line the body panels were out of line- as if they had already been in an accident- the gaps were all uneven. It isn't up to Mercedes Standard. It was designed by focus groups instead of dictated by engineers as a Mercedes should.

Mercedes should have kept their SUV production in Germany made by German craftsman.

Hopefully you'll never see a Madd not from Italy. But you might see a bbaM model.....lol..

[mellowjonny]

drove a Mercedes ML 320 for a year- actually a 1999 model and A 2000 model. It was a "German car" made in Tuscalousa Alabama. My body shop guy was commenting how right off the production line the body panels were out of line- as if they had already been in an accident- the gaps were all uneven. It isn't up to Mercedes Standard--Only stupid americans drive Mercedes--the rest of the world uses them for taxi cabs.

[John Gilmour]

I happen to have a good Mercedes- it would be one helluva taxi. You can even beat the high speed trains in Europe with it.

I think the 170 is very similar to my car- they've made newer cars- but not better ones. At 100mph- its like....... 50. At 135 its like............ 90. At 155 its like........ fast. Thank you V1. Its the overall versatilityand sleeper status that makes products great. My car is far far more stable at speed and predictable in handing than the new E55 (which does accelerate faster). I could drive all day at 135 and not think twice about it. Mercedes has lost its touch save for the 600SL and SLR.

Proof that a 10 year old object, well designed, can still outshine the new.

MERCEDES-BENZ 500E

LIKE A DRUG

The mesmerizing effect of a 322-bhp V-8

by Michael Jordan

Automobile Magazine

April 1992

Mercedes-Benz 500E. It's expensive, exclusive, and more than a little unreal, but it makes you believe once again in the ability of Mercedes to make the ultimate automobile.

Los Angeles - There are few nameplates that shine as brightly as that of Mercedes-Benz, yet it has looked a little shopworn lately, as if too many hands have reached out to touch it and carry away its magic. So many people have rubbed up against the Mercedes image that the company has become less noteworthy for its cars than for the defence of its trademark against assorted rap singers and small-time hucksters. Mercedes has become a shrine visited too often, a coin passed through too many hands, a phrase heard on the lips of too many people.

The Mercedes-Benz 500E ("Blitzen Benz!" December 1990) cleanses the company badge and renews its luster. The 500E reminds you that they make cars - not engineering manifestos or advertising slogans - in Unterturkheim, and that Mercedes cars are part of a great tradition of forthright speed and impeccable road manners.

"I was going down the autobahn toward Geneva in the 500E, and I was thinking about my friends who are always telling me how great it must be to work at a car magazine and then asking which car is the best I've ever driven. And I thought: "This is it. This is the best car in the world. This is the reason I work at a car magazine."

Larry Crane

It's pretty easy to figure out this car. It's the mid-size W124 sedan (familiar to us as the 300E) with the 322-bhp V-8 engine from the 500SL sports car. Since the 500E weighs 290 pounds less than the 500SL, it has a liveliness that's missing from the two-seater. The 500E is a real road car, and we like it for basically the same reasons we like the Ford Taurus SHO and the Pontiac Bonneville SSEi. The difference is, we can't get enough of the 500E. It's just like a Mercedes, only faster.

"When you drive with all your normal inputs, you look down at the speedometer, and it's as if somebody dialed up the speed by 50 percent." Douglas Weisz

Ah, the speed, the incredible speed. We are utterly intoxicated by the 500E's speed. We are besotted with it, unmanned and unwomaned by it. We tore across Angeles Crest Highway in California; in Michigan we hammered down Pleasant Lake Road, challenged the looping, eastbound Plymouth exit from M-14, and whistled through the southbound transition from M-14 to U.S. 23. By every measure of the road, the 500E makes us drunk with speed. This car is like a drug that you can't buy.

"You find yourself cruising along at 90 mph and then blowing through gaps in the traffic at 120 mph. The Ceppos family set a new personal land speed record of 145 mph, and it wasn't very hard because we didn't need much space in which to do it." Rich Ceppos

As you would expect, the formula here is basically a big engine, stiff springs, and fat tires, but all of it has been executed with the sanitary thoroughness so typical of Daimler-Benz. The 32-valve, 5.0-liter V-8 engine from the 500SL has been modified with longer intake runners and a hot-wire air sensor for the fuel injection, and together these changes boost the torque rating by seven percent. There's sufficient power here to spin the rear wheels easily in wet weather, so Daimler-Benz's traction control is in place. This computerized system reduces wheelspin by combining inputs into the anti-lock brake system, adjustments of the throttle valve, retardation of the ignition timing, and adjustment of the fuel mixture. Top speed is electronically limited to 155 mph.

As far as the chassis is concerned, the body structure around the engine has been strengthened, and much of the running gear has been upgraded to SL specifications, including front disc brakes with big 11.8-inch vented rotors and powerful four-piston calipers. Wider fenders were required to encompass the 225/55ZR-16 tires; Daimler-Benz commissioned new tooling so the fenders would meet its standards. There's also some imaginative trickery in the suspension. First, plastic helpers for the springs make travel more progressive at full compression. And second, tiny helper springs inside the shock absorbers take the sting out of full rebound and also permit the use of softer anti-roll bars, improving ride quality.

Traction control is a boon in the wet but can be disconcerting in spirited driving. Inputs must be deliberately controlled. Driving environment is basically unchanged from previous 300 series but is still simple and elegant with its burled walnut console and dash fascias. And, in case you were wondering, the "E" in 500E comes from Einsprintzung, German for "fuel injection," and now identifies any gasoline-engined model.

The basic W124 sedan might be the most successful of the Bruno Sacco shapes, with just the right amount of surface tension in the soft aerodynamic form. The 500E, which rides about an inch lower than a 300E and has a track 1.5 inches wider, gives the basic shape a kind of sculptural voluptuousness. Given the wonderful palette of colors that is available, it is hard to believe that anyone would choose a color like the battleship gray that cursed our West Coast test car. On the visual interest scale, it was a black hole. The gray color didn't do the interior any favors, either, although the seats (slightly wider than the optional Sportsline seats now available in some of the 300-series cars) are very good.

"It's like a Porsche 911 Turbo with four doors. You can go faster than a Ferrari 512TR because it's so predictable, and it's so civilized compared with a BMW M5. This is the best car I have ever driven." Kathleen Hamilton

The 500E does not drive like a hot rod. The AMG Hammer (July 1987), this car's spiritual ancestor, was simply snubbed down and tightened up, and you could make it crease apexes like a Formula 1 car or back it into corners on opposite lock like a sprint car. But the 500E drives like the ideal Mercedes-Benz. This means that no special techniques are required for going fast; you step in and drive. It tracks through corners, following the front tires with a kind of obedient resolve. In fact, you can be disappointed if you try to hustle this car in the point-and-shoot mode. As soon as the traction control system senses too much wheelspin, it's on you like the thought police, and the car lurches as it settles down. You have to sneak up on peak cornering speeds with the skilled deliberation of Rick Mears.

On the whole, this is not a car that likes tight corners and frantic inputs. And since it doesn't call for finely honed reflexes, it doesn't serve the vanity of self-styled hero drivers. Instead, this is a true Mercedes, and that means it is intended for serious travel, not stunt driving. In fact, Mercedes is most proud of the car's even weight distribution under partly loaded conditions, its stable rear suspension geometry, and the complete car's safe and easy-to-control character in slippery road conditions.

Speed is what this car is really about. And the feeling it gives you - a combination of exhilaration, confidence, and safety - is virtually impossible to describe. Like Ishmael in Herman Melville's Moby Dick, we find that we cannot describe the whiteness of the whale.

"It is important that prospective 500E drivers have impeccable credentials as adults. The car is so quick, so eager, so agile, that it makes immature people drive like idiots. We all fell into that latter category. Example: Early evening, medium traffic, good visibility. I'm minding my own business in the right-hand lane with the cruise control set at 80 mph. Another idiot blasts past in a 5.0 Mustang, and all self-discipline vanishes. I'm on him like a leopard on a tethered goat. He tries to hold me off, but he hasn't a prayer. A small hole opens, I give the Mercedes one more squirt, and the Mustang disappears in my mirror, its headlights getting closer together as though I were watching through the wrong end of a telescope. At three in the morning, in bed, staring back at the darkness, I squirm uncomfortably and accuse myself: "Idiot! You know better than that! You could be in jail right now!" David E. Davis, Jr.

"The ride is amazingly good considering the enormous capabilities of this car. And yet the control is still there. It reminds you that the Europeans still know how to build the best automobiles in the world." Barry Winfield

"It's incredible that it feels so normal to drive above 100 mph all the time."

Mark H. Schirmer

"I sold my 500SL and bought one. I wanted a car that had the running gear of an SL but was completely inconspicuous. It has avoided a great deal of trouble with the police." George Kacher

"This car is worth the money. It makes you want a Mercedes again."Jean Lindamood

This is a plain, almost austere car. It reacts to everything with a kind of thoughtful delay, a soft, progressive engagement that marks every system, from the steering to the turn-signal stalk. Yet underneath is an extraordinarily dramatic personality that holds us spellbound. This car is so enormously capable that it inspires the driver to match its greatness with his or her own best effort.

Sure, an $80,000, 155-mph sedan that gets 14 mpg is not a paragon of social responsibility. Yet the 500E's ability to deliver speed and comfort with complete safety makes it a standard by which we will measure all automobiles. Call us drugged by speed, but we think the 500E is a vision of automotive excellence.

[philfell]

John of course there is going to be blems in the production of boards no matter where they are made. That isn't the point. To my knowledge Cheri didn't give Moxie the option to ride his board while he awaited his new one, from reading her post I got the impression that he had to send his back first. As far as shipping goes.... I didn't know you could speak for Madd when you say that Cheri will cover the shipping to return the blemed board.

I don't think even Burton would try to sell a blem to a customer who paid for a first quality board without telling them. Well maybe Burton would.... How would you feel if you ordered a Coiler, waited more than half a year, and when you received it the graphics were messed up AND there was a ding in the base. When you contacted Bruce his response was, yeah I knew it was messed up, but I thought it still looked cool so I sent it to you anyway. If you want a new one send that one back and I'll get one to you in a month. You would be ticked off too! Overall I think Moxie is handling this well I seem more ticked than he does.

Sorry to use you as an example Bruce. I have heard nothing but great things about the product that you deliver and was using you as an example ONLY. I don't think that you, Sean, or Chris would do anything like this.

[Mike T]

Originally posted by philfell

How would you feel if you ordered a Coiler, waited more than half a year, and when you received it the graphics were messed up AND there was a ding in the base. When you contacted Bruce his response was, yeah I knew it was messed up, but I thought it still looked cool so I sent it to you anyway. If you want a new one send that one back and I'll get one to you in a month. You would be ticked off too! Overall I think Moxie is handling this well I seem more ticked than he does.

Sorry to use you as an example Bruce. I have heard nothing but great things about the product that you deliver and was using you as an example ONLY. I don't think that you, Sean, or Chris would do anything like this.

I can attest to the fact that Sean and Bruce are first class when it comes to issues like this and customer service in general.

Sean built me a freeride board three years back that came out with a bubble in the topsheet - he told me about it before shipping and offered to make me another one or send me that one at a good discount. I took the discount since he assured me it wouldn't impact performance or durability. Well, three years later and lots of days on snow and the topsheet is in the exact same conditionand I got a nice break on the board.

Last year Bruce told me he had some blemished versions of my first choice topsheet or I could wait for the next batch... I accepted the blem since he described it as not-obvious. Well, when I got the board it took me several minutes to even see what the heck he was talking about! it was a small graphical imperfection that I wouldn't have noticed ever if I didn't know exactly where to look.

That's what I call taking pride in your work and first class service! Of course, Donek is Sean's livelihood and Bruce has been doing Coiler continuously for a while now. I'd sure love to see Madd stick with it and iron out the glitches brought to light here, especially if I enjoy the board as much as the Madd advocates here tell me I will!!!

[lonerider]

Originally posted by John Gilmour

Phil- all due respect- if you think for a moment that there wouldn't be some glitches in the first run of boards in 10 years....................

Everyone gets taken care of in the end- and if Moxie wants to ride this deck and then get a new one....where's the problem with that? At least he has something to ride. As for shipping- I'm sure Cheri will send hima UPS call tag so the shipping is on us- he'll be out a strip of tape to reseal the box.

The problem isn't that there are some glitches in the first run, it is the tone of Madd's replies to customer issues. Everytime time, Madd makes annoucement (or lack of one) that gets people up in arms. You and Jack help mediate the dispute... but the very fact that you have to "reword" and "rephrase" Madd's emails and posting shows that they aren't getting the job done themselves.

Would you have shipped the moxie's board the way it is without bothering to tell him. And then when he complains reply to him "We thought it looked cool... IF you aren't happy" and never actually apologize?

Madd was very brusque with moxie's concerns. They didn't offer a discount on a gratuitous cosmetic blemish (even though I agree it looks kind of slick) or explicitly offer to pay for shipping back. Either of which would have quickly quelled the issue and so once again cooler heads had to come to Madd's defense, and I think that if Madd simply had a little bit more proactive - this would all be avoided.

Do you disagree that they could have handle this issue (and pretty much every issues before this) a little more diplomatically?

I know that the people of Madd are trying their best, but sometimes they just need to explicitly apologize for their mistakes and actually make an effort to make up for these mistakes (I don't consider offering a refund/replacement as "making up" for it as that is the minimally expect action possible).

[Bobby Buggs]

Since the offer has yet to be extended to ride the boards until the proper replacements are delivered what would they do with my board if I said I was unwilling to accept it in its current condition?

I would expect the retarded graphic boards would make great Demo boards

[Gecko]

were bought sight unseen yes......everyone here bought a Madd/bbaM not knowing what they were going to look like...the fact that they are not what they expected isn't really relevant they agreed to buy the board and they got what they paid for...the only real issue would be the base and whether it meets with your approval

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Gecko

were bought sight unseen yes......everyone here bought a Madd/bbaM not knowing what they were going to look like...the fact that they are not what they expected isn't really relevant they agreed to buy the board and they got what they paid for...the only real issue would be the base and whether it meets with your approval

For the record again (and people who don't bother to read the whole long, agonizing thread). I think the main issue is that Madd didn't bother to at least "check" with the customer about such an issue - seems like common courtesy/sense to me. Am I being unreasonable in this belief?

You are wrong about people not knowing what they looked like when they bought them. Initially everyone thought that they were going to look like the original boards. That's what the demo boards looked like and that's what Madd has posted on it's Ebay store where they include a photo of the older boards and write "Newer models are built with a 50% graphite base, and are identical to the older Madds in all other respects." It was only during the failed "choose your topsheet" debacle, AFTER people already made their deposit, that people realized the topsheet design was unknown. Madd said "don't worry, we'll get back to you in a few days" after that - despite a flood emails and posts, Madd then simply ignored all requests to see the topsheet for the next five months.

At least that's how I remembered it. Do you remember the events differently?

[Gecko]

I had the time line jumbled a bit I was surfing the site from an aircraft carrier at sea when that was happening so please forgive me

[nils]

still wondering what the base is exactly??

50% graphite bases...? Not sure it exists!

Electra 4000 R that ski races use in the world cup events have a max of 20% graphite, and its still prototype bases from IMS....

Not going to copy that on the next Swoard's, but just by curiosity! :)

What I like with small manufacturers of alpine boards is that they write usually the name of what is inside the board in clear letters, and not like salomon, burton, or rossignol do such as renaming a Ptex 2000 base into "exclusive ultra glidinium base".. It seems alpine consumers are more aware of tech and like to know what they ride, but also that the truth always pays and costs less than marketing!

N.

[Jack M]

Originally posted by lonerider

Everytime time, Madd makes annoucement (or lack of one) that gets people up in arms. You and Jack help mediate the dispute.

Just for the record, I do not represent Madd at all.

I can just see both sides of things. I spent a summer working with a guy starting his own snowboard factory. Granted, it was small, but I learned how to make boards and some of how a factory runs. It's no cake walk.

Also, knowing Shaggy, I have every confidence everyone will be taken care of when all is said and done.

[Kent]

I have and will continue to hold my thoughts until my 158 arrives...and will happily provide (useful) feedback for both the performance and business side of Madd. Mine is still in little pieces somewhere in Italy where the men are chasing women....

25 days on snow already and counting....

Call the board....

Viva La Bbam!!!!

And, the classics...

Tommy Boy #1

Tommy Boy #2

The Classic Guarantee

[ncermak]

Liek Kent, I too have held my tounge.

Lat week Shaggy contacted me, and let me know that my board was a cosmetic second. he was very agreeable in letting me see the board before making my decision, and told me it would be waranteed as a first.

I understand Moxie's frustration and am not sure why I got what appears to be better customer service, But it does lead me to believe that the situation will be righted. Working with new and small companies can often be challenge, but usually pays off with big rewards. If everything I've read holds, I will get my reward when I get on snow.

I don't understand the Large contigent of people who are genuinely P****d off, and aren't customers or manufacturers who may have lost a sale.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Gecko

I had the time line jumbled a bit I was surfing the site from an aircraft carrier at sea when that was happening so please forgive me

No problem I have a hard time keep track of everything myself. For the most part I have tried to keep quiet and just wait for my snowboard, but in certain cases, I think some criticism is beneficial as it gives the company feedback on how it's doing it's job.

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

Just for the record, I do not represent Madd at all.

I can just see both sides of things. I spent a summer working with a guy starting his own snowboard factory. Granted, it was small, but I learned how to make boards and some of how a factory runs. It's no cake walk.

Also, knowing Shaggy, I have every confidence everyone will be taken care of when all is said and done.

Yea, you are one of the "cooler heads" that I mentioned in the previous post. I agree that everything will be alright in the end. I just wish Madd did a better job of reassuring customers of that... the fact the ncermak had a similar situation and was treated better than moxie just shows they need to be a little more consistent in their customer service.

Perhaps you should become associated with Madd, most of the useful information seems to be leaked with people close to the company anyways - and you have the undisputed credibility that a company needs in a spokeman. :)

[philfell]

After reading the last few quotes, I started asking myself a new question. How many blems did madd end up with? We've tracked down three so far. I'm wondering what ratio of blems to first quality Madd is being sent, and if it is out of line with normal high end snowboard production. I'm not a board maker and haven't been too involed with the process over all. Maybe Sean or Bruce could shed some light on the percentage of boards that they make that come out with slight blems. Also I'm not sure how many boards were ordered in the original batch of boards so three blems might be low or high demending. I'm just having random thoughts about the high quality craftmanship done in Italy that is far above what the american worker can provide that John keeps refering to.

[D-Sub]

this may have been covered already, but anyone know why MADD didnt contract out to donek, prior or coiler? Donek is in the US...would seem cheaper...?

[skategoat]

My guess is that Madd would not want to expose their proprietary design to a direct competitor. Secondly, I'm sure there are capacity issues at one or more of the companies you mentioned.