Madd issues

[Guest chillaxin.nl]

You really don't get it, huh? Getting arguments in the discussion which have absoluty nothing to do with this topic. Taking things out of their context...

I did not say you should not be polite. I said you have a right to complain if the product you paid for is not according to your expectations. Furthermore, i said that i have no compassion for your story or Madd's working for free. That's your own choice and has nothing to do with small or big manufacturers, working full time job as a teacher and having kids. What the hell does that have to do with quality of snowboards? I really don't get it, so please explain it.

I did have an American girlfriend, and you don't know me so please keep your opinion about my attitude, cultural knowledge etc. to yourself. Again, this has NOTHING to do with this topic. So stick to facts...

[Shred Gruumer]

John I never met ya but, Im with ya too.. well I haven't invested thousands of dollors but I have invested some and a lot of time to work some fun stuff and getting some MADD merchandising done. Cause I love doing this stuff and have loved this sport for more than 20 years! I can't speak for the Owner/s cause its not mine. But John is right,, Shaggy and Cheri are doing all they can..and then some. Ya know maybe it can become something great and the business end continue to grow, but for now you'll have to settle for an outstanding board! gee I'll take 10 please! I have a ton of customs, all to my specifications.. Viruses,,Doneks.. maybe Coiler(if it ever gets here ;) _and when I rode the MADD this past season at the ECES I was dumbfounded and Im not easily dumbfouded,,almost said fondue..anyway the thing was the best ice board I have ever riden and I swore I would never ride anythinge under a 180 again..Im glad I did! Its painful for me to sit on the side lines and hear some of whats going on and not being able to do anything about it.. BUT TRUST ME YOU WILL BE TAKEN CARE OF! and earlier post..is right on hey after 2 weeks if not damage return it! But do your self a favor and ride it! MADD is trying to do something here others have tried, funny though, knowing the numbers of who bought one and the number of complaints. I would say its right on for any business.. you can't please everyone no matter what you do..

I tried to dress up the logo for the hats and stuff and Make it very classy.. some say "oh I hate it go back to the old or do this do that" Just trying to do something cool that people can say ,,"hey nice hat " Thats what my involvement has been .. sorry if this does not make sense,, but Im at work,, and have ISO auditors in and Im trying not to get busted so I can continue to buy product and support the Alpine sport that I can't get enough of.. I do it cause we need more MADD and more Coilers not less.. I do what I can and I love it. It don't matter if I get paid.. **** give the Moxie board! Money's nice but I proud to be able to be apart of something to try to revieve something.. wouldn't you

Damm it man! wheres your head!

By the numbers! over 90 % are totally satisfied.. there will always be a few.

Nobody is twisting your arm.. give it a chance to spawn before you step on it. dats all im saying.

Well I hope I can continue to be apart of this work in progress!

Yes the people have a right to complain and cheer and so far things have been taken care of.

If not,, let us know,, things sometimes don't work,,like email addresses and answering machines that are filled and people who don't get back from work till 6:00, Basically a non for profit donate your time.. and make one KICK ASS BOARD! company INC.

LOL

Right said Shred

Ok i guess i'll get it now:)

Hat in Osha Orange!

[Guest chillaxin.nl]

Hi Shred,

Nice post!

Please guys.....don't get me wrong here...I AM NOT SAYING MADD BOARDS ARE WORTHLESS. I am just saying that if you buy a product and it's not to your expectations, return it, get your money back, exchange it for another one, etc. THAT'S ALL I WANT TO SAY...nothing more....nohting less.

I have read the discussion and arguments have been used which has nothing to do with the topic or the quality of the boards. I just responded to this...again...nothing more...nothing less....

[Jack M]

John Britten, a New Zealander, made high performance motorcycles in his toolshed. He built them for racers and collectors. They weren't even street legal, despite pleas from would-be customers. He didn't really care about making money off his bikes, he did it for the passion. Only 10 were ever made. They were revolutionary marvels, and are now priceless.

(http://www.britten.co.nz/photos/images/dcp_0149.jpg)

A recent write-up in Motorcyclist Magazine described them as the answer to the question "wouldn't it be cool if we could build a bike with...". They had a radical Hossack-style wish-bone front end made of carbon/kevlar that was adjustable for rake and trail, a ducted under-tail radiator, the rear shock mounted in front of the engine and actuated by a linkage, a carbon/kevlar rear swingarm, and to top it off, the bike had no frame, everything just bolted to the engine. And he did all this in his toolshed.

In 1998 the Guggenheim museum opened its "Art of the Motorycycle" exhibit. They had constructed an exhibit hall that was a big round spiraling ramp, kind of like in some parking garages. At the bottom of the spiral where you enter the hall, the first featured machine was a specimen of the very first motorcycle ever built - a Michaux-Perraux (nice coincidence, eh?). The ramp spiraled upwards past examples of important and beautiful motorcycles through history, in chronological/technological order. At the top termination of the spiral, there was a Britten.

Unfortunately John Britten died recently at an early age, and the future of the bike company is now in the greasy hands of lawyers. It will likely never see further production.

[Guest chillaxin.nl]

Jack...now i am really lost here....

What are you saying? You don't always have to get rich? Build things you are passionate about? If you are passionate about something and you build it, it will be of great quality? First die before your products get worth anything?

Where is the hidden message here?

[John Gilmour]

Originally posted by chillaxin.nl

You really don't get it, huh? Getting arguments in the discussion which have absoluty nothing to do with this topic. Taking things out of their context...

I did not say you should not be polite. I said you have a right to complain if the product you paid for is not according to your expectations. Furthermore, i said that i have no compassion for your story or Madd's working for free. That's your own choice and has nothing to do with small or big manufacturers, working full time job as a teacher and having kids. What the hell does that have to do with quality of snowboards? I really don't get it, so please explain it.

I did have an American girlfriend, and you don't know me so please keep your opinion about my attitude, cultural knowledge etc. to yourself. Again, this has NOTHING to do with this topic. So stick to facts...

Chillin- The point is- we are not doing this full time and to expect ISO 9000 (oops thanks Shred from QC'ing that typo. lol..it is ISO 9001) QC from a group of 4 part timers when dealing with a high performance Carbon Fiber snowboard production which has stopped for almost 10 years is not at all realistic. No one is taking away anyone's right to complain. Madd Snowboards had one of the best warranty programs when it started. We warranteed nearly every board...no questions asked- And I can tell you for sure there were some 20 boards from area colleges which looked like they had been wedged in door jambs (I could see the same mark and paint transfered on the board) and flexed backwards until they broke. (Guess what? We replaced ALL of them...how's that for warranty service?)

How old are you?

And living in the USA for a whole year and dating an American girl before- doesn't make you understand Americans anymore than a tourist. If I were to come to the Netherlands and work for a year and date a few netherland women would you expect me to understand your culture entirely? Not likely, you'd still likely view me as a typical American.

[Guest chillaxin.nl]

what has age got to do with this?

I don't make any judgements on culture...i was just saying i know a little bit about the American culture...again..nothing more...nothing less. You are taking things out of context...again....let stick to the topic....

[Guest ethanpt]

I have been reading this post and all along I have had a couple of concerns. I understand folks frustration waiting for the boards, less than ideal communication, etc. That being said, as John mentioned these people (Cheri, Shaggy, Mike) are DOING US A FAVOR by making these boards. As John said, its not for money. So my primary concern is that this group of people ripping into them is going to frustrate them so much that there will never be another run of these boards...why would they want to when instead of appreciation, they get an a@@ripping? My other concern is that people who are interested in the sport (I have given this website to a number of folks I have encouraged to do alpine) and they are going to see a bunch of whiners. Please stop your bitching and be glad you have the opportunity to ride an amazing board. So what if the graphics aren't perfect. To the folks who haven't bought the boards and are so opinionated- stop throwing gasoline on the fire...stop shi##ting on the people who are passionate about this sport. John Gilmour didn't know me and he has taken a lot of his own time helping me to learn alpine, get boards set up, etc. He did this for the love of the sport. I would like to see people start thanking Cheri and Shaggy...so MAYBE I can order a 158 next year IF they do another run.

[Shred Gruumer]

Sorry, Maybe they should,,, cause thats my job! Im sorry I failed!

John,, the standard been revised its ISO-9001:2000, But MADD works to AS9100 Rev B, Aerospace standards!

You see the graphics on our Jets!

..

As soon as we can we plan on doing a Kaizen event with production, we already implemented the 5 s's and are leaning out the process.. most of our suppliers are on Kanban so we should go to go!

[John Gilmour]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

snipped.....

In 1998 the Guggenheim museum opened its "Art of the Motorycycle" exhibit. They had constructed an exhibit hall that was a big round spiraling ramp, kind of like in some parking garages. At the bottom of the spiral where you enter the hall, the first featured machine was a specimen of the very first motorcycle ever built - a Michaux-Perraux (nice coincidence, eh?). The ramp spiraled upwards past examples of important and beautiful motorcycles through history, in chronological/technological order. At the top termination of the spiral, there was a Britten.

I wish I had seen that. Where are the bikes now? I would really like to see one in person. Quite a design triumph.

BTW Jack is in no way affiliated with Madd- he rides everything.

[Jack M]

Originally posted by John Gilmour

Where are the bikes now? I would really like to see one in person.

Got a phone book? Call Mr. Hunter...

http://www.britten.co.nz/info/infowhere.html

[John Gilmour]

Originally posted by chillaxin.nl snipped...

what has age got to do with this?

You already answered my question.

[Guest johann]

Its like a train wreck, and traffics stopped while people are rubbernecking.

Full on flame war here, what's the deal, can we get this thread locked or something?

[John Gilmour]

Originally posted by Mike T

I went back and read my earlier post... what was I thinking what I said that? I don't know the first thing about making snowboards, my hypothesizing about what would if Sean made Madds was stupid. I did not mean to offend Sean, Madd Mike, or anyone for that matter.

no offense taken at all. :) I would really like to ride a BX Madd laminated by Sean. We seriously thought about it. I think Seans lamination style would be perfect for it.

[John Gilmour]

No this thread should not be locked. But the conversations should be between Only Madd Customers and their concerns.

For instance as a rider of Madd boards I wouldn't go posting on a thread about Donek and bash Donek. (Sean would never ride with me again.....lol...)

[D-Sub]

John

thing is...if someone pays for "A" and is expecting "A" to be "right" and gets "B" and had "B" shipped to them without anyone saying anything...thats kinda hard to swallow!

in the particular incident that started all this, someone from MADD should have contacted moxie before shipping him the 2nd. From what I gather, no one did. So, he got a surprise. Had they said ahead of time, "this one got fouled up, here are your options" he would have had a choice, and probably wouldnt have been too worried.

I gotta say your posts are a little melodramatic. People do things for love all the time, but it doesnt mean that their product should be substandard, and that they dont have to communicate with those they are producing for.

someone mentioned that MADD is doing us a favor? Im sorry but favors are _free_ and even at the discounted rate the MADD boards are far from free. Perhaps they are at "break even" price only, in which case I see what you might have meant by doing a favor.

I dont see anyone arguing that "MADD SUCKS" or even being ungrateful. What I see is that someone who got something other than what he was supposed to get was unhappy about it, and wasnt told in advance.

anyway, Im certainly keen on checking mine out, but I can say that I _do_ care if the topsheet is proper. If not I would want a significant discount and that would suffice.

that said, Ive tried to contact about whether or not mine is one of the 2nds, and havent heard back yet:)

[Hans]

I am considering to buy a Madd 170 or 180 (if this size will be produced?). Can't imagine the fuss at this topic at all. Just contact Shaggy and get your complaints done with him/it. I have been emailing several times with Shaggy througout the year and he always mailed me back with info. So stop complaining, call Shaggy and solve your problems with him. If he produced these boards, he will certainly be reasonable to solve your problems. Otherwise his total business is done. He wouldn't be that stupid. That's what I (John, another dutch adult ;) from 1964) should do instead of complaining/crying of how pitiful you are. You can always call your mom afterwards! (and cry with her).

Greets, Hans.

By the way, if someone is not happy with his new rockin' Madd 170, I will buy it, name your (little) price :D

TOPIC CLOSED

[John Gilmour]

Well- when did Cheri say to Moxie "You're stuck with the board."

Never.

So don't sweat it. Any issue will be dealt with on an individual basis and solved. Like any other alpine company.

In the beginning almost everyone hated the original Madd Graphic- now people complain if it changes.

Graphics are better than no graphic. If you want No graphic it's just a Krylon spray can away.

Cheri already emailed Moxie and took care of it. Move on...there's nothing to see here.

I am no longer going to respond to Madd complaints because I had no control over this run of boards.

[D-Sub]

Youre right in that everyone should be allowed to make mistakes. Glad to hear it was taken care of. I dont think anyone's sucking the fun out of anything at all!

[Hans]

Originally posted by D-Sub

Youre right in that everyone should be allowed to make mistakes. Glad to hear it was taken care of. I dont think anyone's sucking the fun out of anything at all!

You're right D-sub, I am dead(ly) serious.

Greets, Hans.

[bobdea]

its getting ugly

I rode my madd last night in some nast icey conditions

this is what I have to say for it keep in mind the shortest board I rode last winter other than a four days or so of softboots was a coiler 190

I have the 170

first thing off this board is narrow I am used to nothing below 19.5 the madd is 18 cm

so that and it being short and turny made it quite interesting at first and yes a challenge(this was my first time out this season as well)

first run I was real tipsy this thing is narrow so my angles are way higher than usual first thing I notice is that if you edge it on ice it does grab really well

this first run I was worried I was not going to like this board but the last three turns or so at the bottom of that run it clicked

Flex is a little soft for me(but much stiffer than most boards its size) but I weigh 250 so I am a little out of its range but as soft as it is

it would still be hard to stuff the nose on it I have never felt that way about any other board other than my coiler 190

the key to this board I figured out quickly is the more you put into it the more it gives back

I know how to push a board around between my weight and that I have been riding long enough it would be sad if I did not

this is a board that wants to turn and be turned hard

also at speed it can still be turned hard like a board that is longer than it is

this board rides well anyway you want to ride it BUT until you really push it beyond what your first impression tells you it is capable of you will not even begin to understand how well it rides

I have had close to thirty alpine decks in since 1996

this one as far as performance is tied as number one with my Coiler this is huge compliment since my Coiler was built around me and is much more the type of board I prefer being is long GS decks

to compare this board to anything is tough but I will try it has lively feel like a Donek but it holds a edge like no other my Coiler holds a edge better but my coiler is 20 cm longer and if you are not strong enough to ride it can be hard to control this is not the case with the Madd it just does it

if you have been riding long boards say 180+ just put in a day on a madd it just might change your view of what is possible with a short stick

the only thing I would really change about this board is I would like it a centimeter or two wider

the bottom line is this board is great nothing rides like it, it was worth the wait, worth the money and everything else involved though at times fustrating

my board rocks though I might have to dump it due to some lack of money issues I doubt I will though I just cannot bear to do it

[Hans]

Hi, Bob

Since I have ordered a 180 Coiler Racecarve II with Bruce, I am very interested in your boardexperience with Coiler. Can you tell me something about your experiences, have some tips for customizing?

Greets, Hans.

[philfell]

Go back to Moxie's original postings, he did email Madd on two occasions and got no response. Madd has an oppertunity to speak for themselves here and have choose not to other to offer Moxie a so-so solution to his concerns. They haven't at least publicly addressed the real issue with the base problem other than, it's probably due to shipping, even though there was no damage to the box in that area.

As far as doing a business while haveing kids, give me a break. Do you want the world to go back to times when woman could only be stay at homes moms. I know many woman who are single parents and can manage a succesful career. Working for free because it's your passion, that's the corner stone of this niche market. Nobody made you work for free, it was your choice! Quite trying to gulite trip people for your own choices. If you feel "helpful critism" should be stopped, you're missing the big picture.

It's not about a product, it's not about doing it out of love for the sport, it's not about haveing a few boards come out with SMALL defects. It's about having enough respect for those who are purchasing your product, that when a problem arises you will take the extra effort to find out what the problem truley is and do you BEST to come to a reasonable outcome. Life is about learning, if you can't learn from your mistakes you will never grow. If it isn't worth the hassle maybe you don't have enough passion or you are unwilling to see what needs to be done to make it less of a hassle. In either case do it or don't do it, it's your choice.

If this was taken care of with Moxie great, we all should move on. John you mentioned that "we" take Moxie out to Vegas, but say you have no affilitation with Madd. Also if you have no control over the production of their product your SHOULDN'T be handling their complaints! That, I feel, is part of the problem you are trying to handle the problem, not the company.

I too am done, I hope what people have said, it will all work out in the end.

[bobdea]

Originally posted by John Gilmour

Well- when did Cheri say to Moxie "You're stuck with the board."

Never.

So don't sweat it. Any issue will be dealt with on an individual basis and solved. Like any other alpine company.

In the beginning almost everyone hated the original Madd Graphic- now people complain if it changes.

Graphics are better than no graphic. If you want No graphic it's just a Krylon spray can away.

Cheri already emailed Moxie and took care of it. Move on...there's nothing to see here.

I am no longer going to respond to Madd complaints because I had no control over this run of boards.

John, you have given allot of insight on everything that has gone on with this whole run of boards and explained allot that otherwise would have been a mystery to us over the last few months

for whatever reason you have been able to respond and explain allot that Cheri and Alan have not been able to

it sounds like they have been quite busy and life is hectic for them

thanks, it is appreciated I have no idea why some people who are not even involved they did not buy any of these boards

and have had so much to say about it

I for one am happy with what I got a spiffy 170

the only problem now is I want a 158 too

[CarvCanada]

???

I still think it looks ultimately cool and I'm sure some other Madd owner would just trade with you, or someone will buy it?

I don't see what all the arguing is about. If I didn't have 2 good boards already, I would have bought a Madd, and when my Donek has had enough, if there will be a production run at that time, I won't hesitate to get a Madd.