Getting a Hardboot setup

[Harmless]

As the season nears, i have finally started thinking about a hardboot setup.

Since almost everyone is a hardbooter here

what would be a good starter binding. Something forgiving.

Thanks for all the help.

[snowboardfast]

I see in your profile that you ride at Winter Park. If you can go to Winter park this year arrange to demo some gear from Bomber before you buy. Make sure and contact them before you come out to CO so they know when you wil be here.

[tex1230]

As the season nears, i have finally started thinking about a hardboot setup.

Since almost everyone is a hardbooter here

what would be a good starter binding. Something forgiving.

Thanks for all the help.

how much do you weigh?

if you're lighter - sub-125lbs - binding isn't really going to matter too much. just something solid...Burton, Ibex, Snowpro, etc

Middleweight - up to about 175lbs - Burton raceplates, td1, td2, catek

heavier - TD2, TD3, Catek - NO PLASTIC!

just one fat old guy's opinion...

[philw]

My view is that you need to look at the whole system, boots and bindings. Broadly you can get your flex (or lean or whatever) from one or the other.

If you're starting out then I'd not advise getting old gear, but pretty much any modern kit will work.

Personally:

• I find the American stuff pretty but over-engineered - heavy, complicated, too many fiddily bits.
  
• I find intec heels give a better boot/ binding connexion than the old clip-ins.
  
• You don't really have to think in terms of getting a "starter" binding and then somehow upgrading - fortunately it doesn't really work that way.
  
• You need to be able to adjust the bindings a bit, but once they're set you should never have to tweak them again unless you change boots.
  

[BlueB]

how much do you weigh?

if you're lighter - sub-125lbs - binding isn't really going to matter too much. just something solid...Burton, Ibex, Snowpro, etc

Middleweight - up to about 175lbs - Burton raceplates, td1, td2, catek

heavier - TD2, TD3, Catek - NO PLASTIC!

just one fat old guy's opinion...

I think that Snowpro can take more abuse then Burton Raceplates - way beefier bails. More adjustable too. Probably best value for money binding out there.

Also, I never broke a plastic part of a binding. I did brake sub 5.5mm bails and a thinner aluminum base plate. I'm 185 lbs and somewhat aggressive.

[Harmless]

i weigh about 200ish so i think im to go with the td3 binding, and Deeluxe Track 325 boots.

Will the 4 hole patterns fit a 3 hole pattern? I plan i changing boards soon anyway

[fin]

Harmless,

The TD3 bindings comes with either 3 or 4 holes center disk. It does not come with both so you do have to choose when you purchase. However, either is available separately.

Now all you have to choose is standard or step-in

[GeoffV]

[*]I find the American stuff pretty but over-engineered - heavy, complicated, too many fiddily bits.

philw have you been on a TD2 or 3 before? They are no more complicated than a Snowpro binding but offer more adjustments and are bomber proof.

Curious, as Snowman is why you think they are to complicated?

[scrutton]

philw have you been on at TD2 or 3 before? They are no more complicated than a Snowpro binding but offer more adjustments and are bomber proof.

Curious, as Snowman is why you think they are to complicated?

Well, it's a fair point. Cateks are complex, with all of the screws, pads and such (there's so many parts to the OS2's). They really do require an instruction manual. Big difference from the older eg Burton bindings. Having said that, excellent advice on the above.

I have Cateks on all my boards. I don't mind the setup time installed, knowing that I'm going to have a lot less problems down the road.

[leeho730]

You can buy Ibex from bomberonline.com and Snowpro from the following two venders:

www.upzboots.com

www.donek.com

Donek sells a starter "package" which include rec pilot and snowpro for $615 if you are also looking for an inexpensive starter board....

[Harmless]

You can buy Ibex from bomberonline.com and Snowpro from the following two venders:

www.upzboots.com

www.donek.com

Donek sells a starter "package" which include rec pilot and snowpro for $615 if you are also looking for an inexpensive starter board....

well i already have a burton slalom 160 and just need a hard setup for it. been riding it with softies but i need a stiffer setup.

[Michelle]

Harmless, if you are in CO definitely come by the office and demo some gear. At the very least, have a chat with us and check out all the stuff we have in our office. It's a carver's paradise here

Definitely either send an email or give us a call before you come over so that we are certain someone is here.

[Harmless]

would come demo some gear this season but i live in missiour lol.

winter park is a real moutain(vacation spot) compared to my little home hill (HiddenValleySki)

[~tb]

Well, it's a fair point. Cateks are complex, with all of the screws, pads and such (there's so many parts to the OS2's). They really do require an instruction manual. Big difference from the older eg Burton bindings. Having said that, excellent advice on the above.

I have Cateks on all my boards. I don't mind the setup time installed, knowing that I'm going to have a lot less problems down the road.

Last time I did the side by side part count. . . the OS2's and TD3's had the same screw/part count. . . . complexity. . . just different. One you have to do math on what angle two plates are relative to the other. The other, you just tweak some set screws.

[leeho730]

FYI,

Total number of screws for standard version:

TD3: 14 (including toe clip bolt)

cant disk 4, base plate 3, toe block 4, heel block 3.

OS2: 17 (including toe clip bolt and toe bail cover).

OS2 disk 4, power plate 2, kingpin 1, cant screws 4, toe block 4, heel block 2.

I have listed below the number of bolts you need to fiddle with in order to change various settings.

To change stance width:

TD3: 4

OS2: 11 (including 4 cant screws)

To change angle:

TD3: 3

OS2: 7 (including 4 cant screws)

To change both stance width and angle:

TD3: 7

OS2: 11

To adjust cant/lift:

TD3: 7

OS2: 5 (including 4 cant screws)

Range of cant/lift adjustment:

TD3: 0/3/6 degree disks

OS2: any combination of 0-7 for cant and 0-9 for lift.

To change stance width, angle as well as cant/lift:

TD3: 7

OS2: 11

To adjust toe/heel blocks:

TD3: 6

OS2: 4

To detach binding from snowboard:

TD3: 4

OS2: 11 (including 4 cant screws)

Tools required for screws:

TD3: 4mm, 5mm hex keys

OS2: 4mm, 6mm hex keys

Other than when it comes to adjusting the cant/lift and toe/heel block, TD3 is better, IMHO.

[Michelle]

To adjust toe/heel blocks:

TD3: 6

OS2: 4

I dont' think this one is right. To adjust the toe and heel blocks, you only have to unscrew 4 (2 for each toe, 2 for each heel) unless I am not understanding what you mean by "adjust".

[trailertrash]

I dont' think this one is right. To adjust the toe and heel blocks, you only have to unscrew 4 (2 for each toe, 2 for each heel) unless I am not understanding what you mean by "adjust".

Could be counting the micro adjust?

[zoltan]

Do yourself a favor and stay away from the Snowpros. The heal doesn't have a stop for the bail, so it flops all the back constantly, making it difficult to clip in. If you want that style of binding, then go with the F2 Race.

[BlueB]

They have a stopper, but it's too small.

To sort it out, here is a simple $1.00, 5min mod:

You need it only at the rear binding.

[Jack M]

One you have to do math on what angle two plates are relative to the other. The other, you just tweak some set screws.

Come on tb, you know you can "just tweak" the TD2/3 if you want to. No math required, and you can read your settings right off the binding. If you really want to know your exact cant and lift angles, there is a table here:

http://www.bomberonline.com/JackM/td2matrix.xls

[BlueB]

Additional info on Snowpro and F2. Information on the F2 came from another party.

Total number of screws for standard version:

TD3: 14 (including toe clip bolt and shoulder bolts)

cant disk 4, base plate 3, toe block 5, heel block 5.

OS2: 17 (including toe clip bolt and toe bail cover).

OS2 disk 4, power plate 2, kingpin 1, cant screws 4, toe block 4, heel block 2.

F2: 11 (including 1/4 turn centre disk cover)

disk 4, toe assembly 3, heel assembly 3.

SnowPro: 18 (including toe/heel studded pads)

disk 4, toe assembly 5, heel assembly 5, toe studded pads 2, heel studded pads 2 (the last 4 you practically never touch).

I have listed below the number of bolts you need to fiddle with in order to change various settings.

To change stance width:

TD3: 4

OS2: 11 (including 4 cant screws)

F2: 4

SnowPro: 4

To change angle:

TD3: 3

OS2: 7 (including 4 cant screws)

F2: 4

SnowPro: 4

To change both stance width and angle:

TD3: 7

OS2: 11

F2: 4

SnowPro: 4

To adjust cant/lift:

TD3: 7

OS2: 5 (including 4 cant screws)

F2: 4

SnowPro: 2 to 6 lift (2 for micro adjustment with studded pads)

8 cant or cant and lift

Range of cant/lift adjustment:

TD3: 0/3/6 degree disks

OS2: any combination of 0-7 for cant and 0-9 for lift.

F2: Lift = 0/between 3.5 & 5.5 dependant upon sole length, Cant = 3.5

SnowPro: Lift = 0mm to 8mm with standard hardware, up to 14mm with longer hardware; Cant 0* to 6*

To change stance width, angle as well as cant/lift:

TD3: 7

OS2: 11

F2: 4 or 8 depending upon required amount of adjustment for stance width

SnowPro: 4 to 14

To adjust toe/heel blocks:

TD3: 4 to 6 (2 shoulder lugs)

OS2: 4

F2: 2

SnowPro: 2

To detach binding from snowboard:

TD3: 4

OS2: 11 (including 4 cant screws)

F2: 4

SnowPro: 4

To change toe/heel studded pads:

TD3: n/a

OS2: n/a

F2: n/a

SnowPro: 2

Tools required for screws:

TD3: 4mm, 5mm hex keys

[zoltan]

Oooooor, you can just buy the binding which works out of the box. I usually try not to buy something which immediately requires modification.

They have a stopper, but it's too small.

To sort it out, here is a simple $1.00, 5min mod:

You need it only at the rear binding.

[BlueB]

Every product can use one mod or another to be made better...

No one sais you have to do this - it works without, just have to be carwful when placing the heel in.

It all boils down to available budgets, value for money, perceived values and few other things.

When buying used, this binding can be had for less then 50% of average price of another very popular binding (which I also ride), that needs exactelly the same mod to really work. Considering that it has stronger bails then some other 2 brands and is more adjustable, it is probably the best value for money out there.

[Corey]

If you have small feet or use UPZ boots, add 4 screws to many of the TD3 operations as the toe/heel blocks cover one or two of the three main screws.

With size 27 UPZ RC-10 boots I'm able to change my cant disc angles ever-so-slightly from my preferred setting to get easier access to at least two of those screws. Then I only have to loosen two of the toe or heel block screws to slide the block outwards to gain access to the third one. Luckily you typically only need to do this when moving the bindings to a board of a different width.

[Keyser Soze]

Oooooor, you can just buy the binding which works out of the box. I usually try not to buy something which immediately requires modification.

No one sais you have to do this - it works without, just have to be carwful when placing the heel in. It all boils down to available budgets, value for money, perceived values and few other things. When buying used, this binding can be had for less then 50% of average price of another very popular binding (which I also ride), that needs exactelly the same mod to really work. Considering that it has stronger bails then some other 2 brands and is more adjustable, it is probably the best value for money out there.

Seriously, this mod helped me out when Blue first posted it, and I don't think criticizing a good idea for binding modification is very constructive.