Should we offer a Sub-Forum for Softboot Carving?

[Bubba]

SNowman I don't feel you have trashed me at all. I do feel that your attitude is harmful to our sport. The ONLY reason Fin operates this board is to attract new customers to buy his product. Of course there are lots of other reasons but this is the purpose of this site and it is as it should be. The idea of adding a softboot specific forum is just a natural addition to this mission. The fact that he even asks us what we think about how he runs his business shows the tightknit comraderie of our sport and is a rare a beautiful thing. personally I don't see what your problem is with the idea. It seperates the (offensive) softboot chat from your clearly more advanced hardboot chatter. It provides a midway point or a "gateway drug" that will and does help jibbers become carvers become hardbooters. In a world where we are less than 2-3% of the snowboard population we need every edge (no pun intended) we can get to compete. When the community grows so does the availability of funds for new prototypes and new innovation that our sport so desperately needs. The work that fin and bruce and prior and others are doing on their own dime is incredible but so much more is possible if we can turn a few hundred carvers into a few thousand and so on. your attitude on this is a brilliant shining example of my earlier statement. you are trying to preside over your own extinction and you don't even know it.

SHARE THE LOVE BRO ITs all about the feeling of laying over and sucking up the G's not about the purity of the Breed. you come off like some kind of snowboard Nazi and it is offensive to many. I personally could care less about your rhetoric but it is important that someone voice discomfort with your attitude lest those looking in from the outside think we all are like you.

hate me if you want to love me if you can man I am happy either way

Well said! This seems like it is turning into another skiers vs. boarders theme that many of us witnessed many years ago. Some of these posts have a very elitist attitude and may turn people away from hardbooting. I ride soft and hard and enjoy both equally. I coach the freestyle team at our local area, ride duck, can carve duck, but when practice is over the hardboots go on. The kids like it, try to carve with me down the hill, and when they have questions about the sport I point them here.....to read all this. A carve is a carve is a carve.

P.S. Dr. D, I am still loving that Identity I picked up from you when I was out there last winter. Sweet, sweet ride.

[photodad2001]

Disclaimer: Went riding today, stopped at the bar, came home and read the new posts and am peeved.

You now after reading the opinions on here of hard vs. soft I've come to realize that there are a bunch of "SKIER" dickheads out there that shouldn't be able to call themselves "snowboarders". The battle that raged "back in the day" of snowboarding I AND MY BEST CLOSEST FRIENDS" had to endure regulations and all kinds of other rules and regulations against snowboarding to make snowboarding a part of the excepted part of the resort back in the 80's sickens me to see this snobery and eletist attitude from MOSTLY EX-SKIERS put us down (knuckle draggers). PISS the F&(# out of me. (Yet unlike some infants I will not "ignore" opositional posts) If hard booting is another way to put the roots of snowboarding down then take your skies and "ride 'faster'" or get a mono or a skwal. THAT should be the "off topic". Mono and skwal are not snowboarding yet it gets into the threads with no dispute even though it is further from actual snowboarding than riding in SB. This should be a snowboarding site first and foremost, boot choice is a secondary, but this is not what it is. Talking with my long term, board shop employee companion, shop team rider, my equal and only friend who has riden with me for over 2 decades.... (also has read, lurked, and thought I was insane for being a part of this) I'm going off topic but when I told him I got pissed for a skier riding up on the tail of my board in the lift line he told me I had changed. Actually said I was being such a "skier". Skuffs and scratches used to mean nothing because we weren't petty, prudish, A-holes, but I see how I've changed. It's not "underground" it's not "hardcore" and it is deffinately not true to it's roots. Hardboots aren't a way of being different as far as riding style, it's just a way of being different as far as equipment. There are 2 types of carvers and the boots don't mean ****e. There are the carvers that are good and those that aren't. This should be a carving forum... period.

[heroshmero]

Back to that term "alpine"...can anybody explain the genesis of that term???

Wow, you are really reaching in an effort to continue this argument now.

[photodad2001]

Plus I really love laying trench around stuck up hardboot thugs like you with equipment and angles you say can't be ridden:biggthump

Preach it my brotha'!!!! Amen!!! Praise Tha' Lord!!!! Tell it like it IZZZZZAH!!!

[photodad2001]

Wow, you are really reaching in an effort to continue this argument now.

Actually "Alpine" refers to the terrain above the tree line. So unless you are above the tree line it really doesn't matter what's on your feet, you are just snowboarding.

Edit: Or are you? If you think "snowboarders" are inferior than you have to be a skier and then you should not be here. Maybe if we decide to let you in we will include a "skier carving" forum. How's that sound?

[Alaskan Rover]

Disclaimer: Went riding today, stopped at the bar, came home and read the new posts and am peeved.

You now after reading the opinions on here of hard vs. soft I've come to realize that there are a bunch of "SKIER" dickheads out there that shouldn't be able to call themselves "snowboarders". The battle that raged "back in the day" of snowboarding I AND MY BEST CLOSEST FRIENDS" had to endure regulations and all kinds of other rules and regulations against snowboarding to make snowboarding a part of the excepted part of the resort back in the 80's sickens me to see this snobery and eletist attitude from MOSTLY EX-SKIERS put us down (knuckle draggers). PISS the F&(# out of me. (Yet unlike some infants I will not "ignore" opositional posts) If hard booting is another way to put the roots of snowboarding down then take your skies and "ride 'faster'" or get a mono or a skwal. THAT should be the "off topic". Mono and skwal are not snowboarding yet it gets into the threads with no dispute even though it is further from actual snowboarding than riding in SB. This should be a snowboarding site first and foremost, boot choice is a secondary, but this is not what it is. Talking with my long term, board shop employee companion, shop team rider, my equal and only friend who has riden with me for over 2 decades.... (also has read, lurked, and thought I was insane for being a part of this) I'm going off topic but when I told him I got pissed for a skier riding up on the tail of my board in the lift line he told me I had changed. Actually said I was being such a "skier". Skuffs and scratches used to mean nothing because we weren't petty, prudish, A-holes, but I see how I've changed. It's not "underground" it's not "hardcore" and it is deffinately not true to it's roots. Hardboots aren't a way of being different as far as riding style, it's just a way of being different as far as equipment. There are 2 types of carvers and the boots don't mean ****e. There are the carvers that are good and those that aren't. This should be a carving forum... period.

Yeah...what he said!!! What he said. :lol::lol: Thanks, bro!! I couldn't agree more!!! I thought I got away from skiers a long time ago....guess not.

I guess lots of these guys are just skiers at heart and always will be. But I always also noticed there are plenty of cool people on here to...'cept for the closet-skiers of course. Especially "skiers" like 'Snowman', who glibly purports to have NEVER come from softbootn'.

[heroshmero]

Actually "Alpine" refers to the terrain above the tree line. So unless you are above the tree line it really doesn't matter what's on your feet, you are just snowboarding.

Is that all you and Alaskan Rover can come up with now? Baiting everybody into a debate over the use of the word "alpine". Have fun with that.

[photodad2001]

Yeah...what he said!!! What he said. :lol::lol: Thanks, bro!! I couldn't agree more!!! I thought I got away from skiers a long time ago....guess not.

I guess lots of these guys are just skiers at heart and always will be. But I always also noticed there are plenty of cool people on here to...'cept for the closet-skiers of course. Especially "skiers" like 'Snowman', who glibly purports to have NEVER come from softbootn'.

You're new here, I've been bombarded with stuff like this for over 2 years now. Things are changing and you can teach an old dog new tricks if he's willing. Fin is super cool and I can't believe he hasn't banned me yet, but I keep refering carvers to this site and I come here mostly to look for used gear in the classifieds (bought 2 boards) and used to come for advice, but realized I know what I need and just like to play "devils advocate" sometimes. This particular topic does bring out some old wounds though.;)

[Alaskan Rover]

Yep...I have to deal with "Gear Snobs" (I.E. - "Nobs") all the time in the climbing world, too. Also in the kayaking world. A large majority of the GearSnobs don't have the skills and they know it. so they figure they make up for it by making fun of other people's gear instead. They don't seem to realize that instead, they just sound like d_ _ks. Pure 'skiers', all the way. Most on this board seem to be real cool, though. The 'skiers' know who they are. They're pretty easy to spot, always have been. ha ha. :)

[photodad2001]

Is that all you and Alaskan Rover can come up with now? Baiting everybody into a debate over the use of the word "alpine". Have fun with that.

We will. Aparently you forgot that "Fun" is what it's all about. Enjoy wallowing in your bitterness. Just kidding.... not really... no yes I am.... no.... yeah, I'm just having fun.... or am I?

BOOO!!!!

Did I scare you?

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

It's just snowboarding!!!!! You wouldn't make it as a windsurfer. Wound WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY too tight!!!!

[photodad2001]

Yep...I have to deal with "Gear Snobs" (I.E. - "Nobs") all the time in the climbing world, too. Also in the kayaking world. A large majority of the GearSnobs don't have the skills and they know it. so they figure they make up for it by making fun of other people's gear instead. They don't seem to realize that instead, they just sound like d_ _ks. Pure 'skiers', all the way. Most on this board seem to be real cool, though. The 'skiers' know who they are. They're pretty easy to spot, always have been. ha ha. :)

Truer words have not been spoken.

[Snowman]

You sir are OBVIOUSLY a skier......

:lol: Yeah, skate and classic. That would be of the cross country variety, and when I break my splitboard in two and use it for skinning that is technically uphill ski transport, but I don't come on BOL and yak about any of that stuff. I go to the appropriate site to discuss these forms of snow sliding where they are applicable.

Think Snow!

[Alaskan Rover]

"Is that all you and Alaskan Rover can come up with now? Baiting everybody into a debate over the use of the word "alpine". Have fun with that."....posted by Heroshmero.

Actually, I wasn't baiting anybody. I don't troll. I was and still am genuinely interested in the genesis of that term as it applies to snowboarding.

In skiing, there is "alpine" and there is "nordic"...and then there are the cross-over such as telemark and randonnee/alpine touring. For skiing, it makes sense to differentiate alpine as going down a mountain, hill whatever and nordic as flatland, trail skiing as in cross-country, bi-athalon, etc etc.

However, in the snowboarding realm, the term seems specious and illogical at best...as unless one spends 100% of one's time in the jib-park or half-pipe, ALL snowboarding is "ALPINE". I ask again: I wonder what I was doing while backcountry boarding in Alaska's Chugach mountains and Alaska Range and St. Elias if it WASN'T "alpine" boarding????...as I sure didn't see much flatland around. Can ANYONE give a decent explanation as to why hardbooters have oddly reserved the term for only them?? It seems quite illogical to me.

[Snowman]

. Especially "skiers" like 'Snowman', who glibly purports to have NEVER come from softbootn'.

I can count the days on one hand that I have been in softies and I will NEVER go back!

Think Snow!

[photodad2001]

:lol: Yeah, skate and classic. That would be of the cross country variety, and when I break my splitboard in two and use it for skinning that is technically uphill ski transport, but I don't come on BOL and yak about any of that stuff. I go to the appropriate site to discuss these forms of snow sliding where they are applicable.

Think Snow!

Just wanted to know what forums those would be. Not to beat a dead horse, but I posted a while back that windsurfing (longboard windsurfing to be precise even though I didn't make that distinction in my original post) and got the "Oh, hardbooting is way more of a niche sport" response... However when I went to the said forums they were dead, so to speak. In fact the 2 biggest forums for windsurfing that are in English, one being the forum for the biggest and only US windsurfing mag (Kiting not included... the baggy pant version of snowboarding) hasn't had a recent post in about a week. I do visit it regularly. And the longboarding site, again, not a new post in about a week. Aparently I was right about windsurfing (longboarding) being even more of a niche sport than hardbooting yet I was slammed here for making such a statement. I also checked out TGR and found it lacking in a specific anything. BOL really has something special and it is growing and expanding to people that I really think a lot of the old timers don't want it to and I can understand that. People are being drawn to carving because it is what it is. No disrespect, but things are changing and it's going to bring a lot of good along with the bad.

[Snowman]

Just wanted to know what forums those would be. Not to beat a dead horse, but I posted a while back that windsurfing (longboard windsurfing to be precise even though I didn't make that distinction in my original post) and got the "Oh, hardbooting is way more of a niche sport" response... However when I went to the said forums they were dead, so to speak. In fact the 2 biggest forums for windsurfing that are in English, one being the forum for the biggest and only US windsurfing mag (Kiting not included... the baggy pant version of snowboarding) hasn't had a recent post in about a week. I do visit it regularly. And the longboarding site, again, not a new post in about a week. Aparently I was right about windsurfing (longboarding) being even more of a niche sport than hardbooting yet I was slammed here for making such a statement. I also checked out TGR and found it lacking in a specific anything. BOL really has something special and it is growing and expanding to people that I really think a lot of the old timers don't want it to and I can understand that. People are being drawn to carving because it is what it is. No disrespect, but things are changing and it's going to bring a lot of good along with the bad.

What exectly is your point? As usual, I am not picking up what you are laying down. Try NOT talking in convoluted circles. You came here to be part of a hardboot snowboard web site: not wind surfing, kite boarding or softbooting. Make a decision man, what exactly is it that you would like to discuss? If it doesn't fall under that catagory of hardboot snowboarding take it to the OFF TOPIC thread and yak all you want.

Think Snow!

[kjl]

Worst signal to noise ratio ever.

[photodad2001]

What exectly is your point? As usual, I am not picking up what you are laying down. Try NOT talking in convoluted circles. You came here to be part of a hardboot snowboard web sit, not wind surfing, kite boarding or softbooting. Make a decision man, what exactly is it that you would like to discuss? If it doesn't fall under that catagory of hardboot snowboarding take it to the OFF TOPIC thread and yak all you want.

Think Snow!

Just drunken thought right now, however there is a point to be made.

The thread in question (windsurfing more of a niche sport than HB) WAS placed originally in "Off Topic" which I'm not the only one to make issues of outside ventures. If the "WAAAYYYY OT" thread can have such a staple in this web site, along with the micro brew posts and other nonsense, then I am way within my boundries talking about windsurfing. THERE'S A LONGBOARD SKATEBOARDING FORUM FOR PETES SAKE!!!!! Fact is the "old" BOL is facing a stream of new young blood that just wants to carve and the skwall and mono BS gets a buy here, along with the skier (shudder) nonsense, so to those that want to bitc# about it, back the F@$# off SB carving posts. That's all. All those that are pissing and moaning over SB posts have had an extensive positive reaction to said skwall, mono and (shudder) ski posts so there are a bunch of hypocrites. BOL has not been exclusively HB posts only and only the cronicly retarded could openly say BOL only has posts about HB while there are hundreds of posts that are welcomed about things as assinine as beer, hot chicks in HB, skiing, skwalls, monos, longboard skateboarding (which I do and also with a sail, or is that tabou?), and tons of other non-HB related topics, but when SB becomes the target for banishment then there is an underlying agenda. When skiing is more accepted than softbooting this is no longer a snowboard forum.

Edit: I talked about OT stuff because this thread is about the need for a SB forum so therefore (due to attacks in other areas outside of the carver comunity) I made reference to those instances regaurding your mention of appropriate places. Makes sense to me, have a few and maybe you'll get it.

[pegtal]

Obviously some members here won't change their mind, and it's ok for me.

Why would some people absolutly try to convince others ? It's a poll and people writing here have already voted, if a Softboot Carving forum is created Snowman and others who are not interested will ignore it, that's all…

@Snowman

Strike two.

Think Snow!

I probably don't understand well what you've done with your quote on page 4 but you should try to avoid this kind of comment, this doesn't belong to an alpine snowboarding discussion.

[Alaskan Rover]

"When skiing is more accepted than softbooting this is no longer a snowboard forum.".....posted by PhotoDad2001.

Extremely WELL SAID !!! In the few scant days that I have been on here, I have counted exactly FOUR myopic, vindictive pugillists...that seem to be plants from the skiing world...(probably from Alta, Utah...they HATE boarders there) planted here to scare any would-be snowboarders back to their skiing world and hence re-populate their own legions of evil...har har.

The rest of the folks here seem pretty cool and willing to embrace ALL carvers. Seriously, you four vidictive gear snobs, and you know who you are, sound like pissy skiers.

[JJFluff]

I think it would be a good idea. After all, isn't one main reason for this forum to spread the word on alpine snowboarding? Correct me if I'm wrong but if you do not allow softbooters into our world how will they ever learn about it?

From a guy who does both, and gets respect from the locals for being able to do both, I've found a ton of interest in what I do. Myself and others who ride the hard stuff have been able to get others onto the boards as well this season. We are after all "snowboarders"- no matter if we use soft or hard setups.

I think to many feel that hardbootin isn't snowboarding and I disagree and consider myself a snowboarder through and through. By degrading those on softboot setups it doesn't help our cause to grow our sport, it hurts it.

[bobdea]

The moto's were the low end boot. I have the Foundation and I've heard other people swear by the Driver SI.

foundation?

I had the driver Si and paired with the SI-X was too stiff with a softer binding it might of been alright IDK but I was not a fan. and this is coming from a avid hardbooter.

in a later post you said something about US having a agenda. yes, we do that's why we're on BOL and not http://www.snowboardingforum.com/ Fin makes bindings and it's because of his involvement with alpine that this forum exists. our agenda is hardbooting and talking about it. some of us ride softboots most of the time but 99% of the posters realize that plates are better to carve on than softboots. it's a agenda that no one hides, you might of well just of walked into a a catholic church and yelled you all here have a agenda about christ being the savior.

do you walk into your local porn shop and scream "you have a agenda that involves SEX!" after that you mentioned how we tolerate other fetishes, yes, we do to a point.

[Guest]

Worst signal to noise ratio ever.

Well said.

As for Photo and Alaskan, don't you find it to be a bit hypocritical to be both seeking inclusion and non-discrimination against softbooters yet you are both ski-bashing left and right? I'm not sure that I get the distinction between the two.

Frankly, this thread has made me realize why I don't bother posting much on this site anymore (and no mark, I'm not referring to you).

[Snowman]

I think it would be a good idea. After all, isn't one main reason for this forum to spread the word on alpine snowboarding? Correct me if I'm wrong but if you do not allow softbooters into our world how will they ever learn about it?

.

No one every said "softbooters" are not allowed! What is being said is, if you want to talk about soft boot and strap bindings, go else where. This is a site didicated to hard boot snowboarding. Come here to learn about THAT, like it has always meant to be and hopefully always will be. Is there nothing pure and origional anymore? Political correctness is bull****. Decide what it is that you want to do, appearently for many here it is a difficult task. Once again, there is always the "Off Topic" thread for those of you insistant on talking about your softies and how well they perform. I didn't cry when the Burton Fish thread was moved to off topic. I posted there and ride my Fish with Bombers, but I didn't start crying when it was relocated. Make up your mind then serach out the appropriate web site based on that decision. Decision time fellas!

Think Snow!

[slopestar]

I ride both. They both are snowboarding. You all have valid points.

I feel that riders that choose soft,but ride alpine style are alienated from the snowboarding majority. I don't associate with the freestyle/jib crowd. I have always ridden fast and laid rail. There has been so much embrace from local BOL riders that enjoy the style of alpine riding regardless of the boots, binders or board under their feet. Just being on the hill with these people has been such a pleasure. True ambassadors to the sport of snowboarding/not just to hardbooting. It is sad to see a handful of you go against that grain. I get the point. It sucks!

Because I split most days 70/30 soft to hard, I will now only spend 30 percent of my free time following up on hardboot snowboarding and the pursuits etc...of the people involved in this discipline of snowboarding and 70 percent of my free time trying to build a website that keeps any discussions about hardbooting and its disciples out because it has absolutely nothing to do with laying rail in softboots... If I ride softboots, I will stay away from my hardbooter friends although they will admit that I could out carve them on softies. Get your heads out of the sand. Embrace all comers and if possible give a small nod. otherwise you are just as bad as the ski snobs I fought with on the hill in the mid eighties or the friging tight pants jib and skid crew. Snobs:nono:...so sad...I feel sorry for you