west carven Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 howdy how safe is this? (see pic)... why does coiler put the inserts so close together? seems weaker and most bindings like td's have plenty placement options. also coilers inserts have too much setback. is it just me? i like riding forward and lean back a little style. i know most coilers are custom, but still... maybe i need to get one made. poll: what do you think of coiler insert pattern and placement??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyagt4 Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Don't know how safe it is, but I can tell you I wouldn't ride that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 I think that you have ither very odd custom made board or very odd stance setup. All Coilers i have, setup is fully middle of inserts, and i have space to play to both directions. And i like wide setups EDIT and i would not ride such binding setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 That looks like a bad idea to me. there's going to be a lot of leverage acting upon those screws when you lift up on the unfastened part of the binding. Maybe somebody here who knows more about this stuff and has more technical knowlede about this stuff will disagree but that seems very, very dangerous to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnbumvbc Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 It looks like you're trying to ride a narrower stance or wider stance than Bruce designed for that board, depending on whether it's the rear set or the front set of inserts. The binding center plate has 2 distinct sets of adjustment holes. 3 pairs in the front set, and 3 pairs in the back set. You'll need to move the binding back until you can run one pair of screws in the front set, and one pair of screws in the back set, ie: front/front, middle/middle or back/back set of holes on the binding center plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnbumvbc Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Read your post again. And yes, you are running the binding way too far forward of the boards designed center. I think you'll have the same problem with all of the Coilers, unless you get one made for your own riding style and specify the location of the inserts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban Carving Gooding Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Hi West I do recall Shred showing me the same thing. He had his custom made with extra inserts or had them moved up. Hope he will see the post and chime in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban Carving Gooding Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 We like riding the same way West. I think it works best on hard pack. Coilers could be set up for softer snow. Ill see you January 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawndoggy Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 call me crazy, but I think that that board will ride like poo set up like that. I know just a very mild change, like moving back one set of inserts (from too far forward to neutral) made my coiler go from so so to awesome. with too much weight forward, though, it rode terribly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 I had to ride the coiler this way for a couple of years until I had bruce shift my inserts farther forward.. if this is your front foot and you have a toe lift it will be fine since you will be driving forward pressure most of the time.. it will be dicey if you lean back on it.. But I don't want to be the one it ok.. for me I don't pull back on my front foot so it was fine.. Thanks for reminding me to tell Bruce V.. RSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west carven Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 howdy all thanks for replying, its my back foot so i'm pressuring down on it. i only rode it this way four runs on one day and a full half day. its a pr186 and my normal stance is about 17 1/4" and yes i'm short at 5' 6". its a lot of board for me. i'll try 18 1/4" which puts the back binding in this position. (see pic)... should be ok and most of you would be ok with this???... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnbumvbc Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 That should work. I have the same problem. I run a 17.5" stance. When I have Bruce build me boards, I have him center the inserts at 17.5". He's done 3 boards for me that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 If that's your back foot, and the nose is to the left of the photo, then I'm guessing you'll be fine. (EDIT: I was talking about the original photo.) I like a centered stance too. "Keep your weight forward" seems to be the #1 piece of advice in snowboard instruction and I think students and instructors alike could spend a lot less time worrying about keeping your weight forward if they just moved their stances forward in the first place. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 honestly, I'd add a set on inserts if the thing is not metal looks like a failure waiting to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 i'll try 18 1/4" which puts theback binding in this position. (see pic)... should be ok and most of you would be ok with this???... I'm pretty sure I have boards set up like this, I think it's fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 The 18-1/4" stance width position (second photo) is normal and expected by the board maker. Some real rough and quick math says that the 17-1/4" stance (first picture) will put about 50% more load into the forward-most inserts than the 18-1/4" stance if you ever put a rearward twist into the binding, like landing on the tail. Yikes! For the nerds that wonder where I got that number: The TD2/3 binding floats on the e-ring, if the upper binding and cant disk rock backwards the forward edge of the cant disk tries to pry the center disk upwards. The disk then pulls up on the bolts while pushing down at the rearward edge. The further the bolt is from the rearward edge, the lower the load is on it. The measurements seem to be 27 and 18 mm from the rear edge to the 3rd and 4th holes back (as measured on my monitor ;)). 27/19=1.5 times the stress. west carven - You can try some 'Gilmour bias' to narrow your stance a bit. You basically move the toe and heel blocks forward (towards the toe edge) of the rear binding and the opposite for the front binding. The blocks move more fore-aft than side-side at our 50+ degree angles. You can't get an inch though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ear dragger Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 That sure seems awful close together, even for a shorter person. In my experience wide stance = stable , and to make it more comfy for the shorter fella, add toe/heel lift. but just an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Bruce has to spread my inserts to accomodate my ridiculous 52 to 56cm width.. I do how ever ride with big heal lift and some toe lift.. For me I like the wider control stance ,, what I mean by that is that I have lots of control leverage to keep my balance.. of course I do get closer as the board gets shorter and then lose my toe lift and lower the heal lift.. Crazy huh! RSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Ace* Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Add 2" to that stance, it helps. If Burton can get away with the way they mount their bindings, you are fine, I wouldn't ride it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 howdyhow safe is this? (see pic)... why does coiler put the inserts so close together? seems weaker and most bindings like td's have plenty placement options. also coilers inserts have too much setback. is it just me? i like riding forward and lean back a little style. i know most coilers are custom, but still... maybe i need to get one made. poll: what do you think of coiler insert pattern and placement??? Dude do not ride your board as such, the narrowest your bindings will go in the closest inserts while still using a 4cm by 4cm insert pattern is your only option and how the board and binding manufactors design the prodects to by used. Any thing else is not cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 See below of what to use in all the other holes.. just pound and bend.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Bruce puts his inserts in the place he put them for a reason. It's funny, Bruce makes great boards that are VERY well thought out. They seem to get praise by everyone who rides them, and it's hard to find anyone here who has had a bad experience with one......So you are trying to set up your board against the recommendations of both the BINDING manufacture and the BOARD builder because you can't fit the stance YOU want on it......It seems to me that the boards inserts are not the issue. You should probably re-look at your set up and question why you feel you should be going so far to an extreme that you need to set stuff up wrong so that your set up can be "right" in your mind. Pretty much every girl I've coached runs a wider stance than 17.25, and some of them are much shorter then 5' 6". Go out to at LEAST 18.5. With a board that big and a stance that narrow it's very hard to control the size of the turn. You are basically just tipping the board on edge and letting the side cut take you around.....You are not controlling the board it is controlling you at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west carven Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 howdy philfell quote:" You are basically just tipping the board on edge and letting the side cut take you around.....You are not controlling the board it is controlling you at that point." riding the sidecut is what free carve is all about. turning the cleanest carve. i am not a racer. i try hard not to force a turn, just let the board do its thing. a narrow stance on a thicker/stiffer board lets me carver it to its limit without losing control. this coiler was made for someone else so i have to adjust to it. if i could keep the first pic stance i would be happy, works for me but i know its not safe to ride it that way. thanks everyone for your input... west carven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Many years ago I used to ride the narrowest stance that the inserts on my board would allow. I worked for me for many years, especially my time At Mt. Lacrosse on narrow trails with consistently over firm conditions. The longest thing I was riding at the time was probably a 173ish cm board. Running such a narrow stance definately tightens up the sweet spot and makes body postioning and weighting critical in order to make clean and efficient turns. I can be done and does work but your error margins become very small. By opening up you stance more, it allows you more leverage over the board and the more leverage you have the less you have to put into it to get it to perform the way you want it to. Things have changed since my Wisconsin days and now everything that I ride in the apline catagory is 185cm and up. With bigger boards, that leverage is critical when trying to get a big board to perform. Now, I usally push my stacne out as far as I can usually to 20.5in to 22in. It took me some time to get used to it by it does make a big difference. Do some experimenting you might be pleasantly supprised with the difference in results. I took a lot of ribbing from many many people about this very topic but came around and changed. Also keep in mind that the a wider stance is a more stable stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west carven Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 howdy so with a wider stance should i use more lift for front and back? i'm using 3degree front and back now. i'll try a wider stance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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