Too steep for hard boots?

[pokkis]

That is tough to look even with correct aspect ratio.

[GeoffV]

And one for scale...

That's a great shot from Right Gully

Have you been up there this season yet?

[scrapster]

Never been to Tucks. Pulled those shots off the web. If I can get in shape this summer, and improve my riding a bit this winter, I'm hoping to make my first trip next spring.

[Bobby Buggs]

Im not a hero and.... I dont Hike:nono:

[Erik J]

I have always loved my hardboots on the steeps, but I've never ridden softies.

The ankle stability was what I liked the most. When stopped, I could just stand there on my own little ledge. Made traversing nice for me too, just point and glide across the slope. When sticking jump turns, I liked the stability of the stiffer cuff. I never felt I was struggling with an inefficient setup but like I said, I've never really ridden softies.

[Bullwings]

Terje Håkonsen rides in softboots, and as far as i know, he's gone down the steepest faces i've seen...

[MEC]

I was up there on April 19th/20th. Glorious weather, 60 degrees and bluebird with no wind on the 19th. We headed down on the 20th as the weather wasn't so pleasant, hiking the bowl in bad weather sucks, and we had other crap to do in VT. We'll go back again in a week or so, but the Sherbie was only good about half way down on the 20th. Plan on hiking out all the way if you go from this point on this spring.

I only rode Hillman's, as my legs were so shot from the hike and my 40 lb pack, that I couldn't do the bowl the same day. Conditions were so, so, as the Inferno was on the 18th. We'll go back in May and stay over a couple of nights to do the bowl.

Hope some other people get up there this year - it's an incredible experience.

Since I only started riding hard boots in 07/08, I'm still taking my softies up there. Hopefully by next spring I'll be up for the hard boots, as I think it would definitely be easier.

[carvedog]

Her's some old scandinavian jibber trying his hand at big mountain stuff;

Terje, Schmerje. pfffft. Of course you can make it look easy with camera angles and a little tiny girlie board. I would ride that on my 197 and HBs. No problem.

The standing on the top so the Heli could fly around would make me crap my pants however.

[Bordy]

Terje, Schmerje. pfffft. Of course you can make it look easy with camera angles and a little tiny girlie board. I would ride that on my 197 and HBs. No problem.

The standing on the top so the Heli could fly around would make me crap my pants however.

They even made Shawn and the Girls look good lots of rad shots and jump cliff spin, and what not, but no where near the current level of big mountain decents.

Shawn said it was a great experance shoting the film, he would like to ride more big mtn, but when you have your own private haflpipe to train for a gold repeat, and your at the age to be competative, then thats what you do.

[tex1230]

They even made Shawn and the Girls look good lots of rad shots and jump cliff spin, and what not, but no where near the current level of big mountain decents.

Teter looked like an amateur.

Terje Håkonsen rides in softboots, and as far as i know, he's gone down the steepest faces i've seen...

Given the opportunity, I'd say most high level riders could have ridden that line Terje did in First Descent. (I assume that's the line you're talking about) - and whatever gear you are comfortable in is the gear you use on big lines. I'd love to get in a Heli and drop an Alaska spine, and I'm 100% sure that when I do, it will be in hardboots on a board I have ridden alot.

[carvedog]

They even made Shawn and the Girls look good lots of rad shots and jump cliff spin, and what not, but no where near the current level of big mountain decents.

Shawn said it was a great experance shoting the film, he would like to ride more big mtn, but when you have your own private haflpipe to train for a gold repeat, and your at the age to be competative, then thats what you do.

Although I do like the steeps, I was totally kidding, Terje is the man.

Love the saucer boy quote too. So apropos for an old dinosaur like me.

RIP Shane.

[bobdea]

ding ding ding, softbootsailor hit it

all of us here that have spent time riding long boards in hairy conditions have hung up the nose or tail riding in steep chutes or trees and ended up tumbling down.

I got snagged once started to tumble and and ended up being hung in a tree by my board, I felt like luke skywalker in the empire strikes back.

it does not even take trees or rocks, just super steep and longer boards are harder to use, jump turns and so on.

[carvedog]

I was totally kidding

Just to clarify.

[John Gilmour]

Burt rode incredibly steep . Bruno tried to do 3 of the steepest peaks in a single day. Climbing to one peak- riding down- and then paragliding to the next peak- and then picked up by helicopter and parachuting to the next... something along those lines...

errr.. he did die trying...... but he almost made it...

you'll see him in plates and I think Raichles in this 1980's video..

I didn't watch the whole video... its just too sad..

[Jon Dahl]

Now, before I get shot for this one, just gotta let you know why. A while back, after the schtubby thread passed along its way, I did some thinking...then some experimenting, mentally. Then I bought a 119 Rossi Mini. Is there a place in a hardbooters quiver for something this short? I tried this combo out Sunday, on some steep, narrow patches of snow. I got turned back by a total whiteout from my true destination, 1300 vert of 35 degree spring corn. I did come back with some thoughts, though. At anything over typical slow speeds, it was just too short to feel stable, however, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Not what I would bring to do any fast riding! But, on narrow(15 feet), steep (50 degree stuff) snow, where jump turns are the norm, it was great. And it had more edge hold than I expected. Hmm...and nice and light on the back. Now the creative juices are flowing. I know some of the Euro steeps riders have custom sticks built just for the purpose, 150 to 155-ish long, I've heard of sidecuts in the 16+ radius range. I think Oxxess has done some, but I do not know for sure. So, my thoughts are these; light wood/glass layup construction, 150 length, schtubby type nose/tail profile, 12m + sidecut, 23.5 waist. 160 lb. rider with at least 20 lbs. in the pack. Will it work ok? Or am I all wet? As for the Mini, it'll get some patch boarding this summer, then maybe I'll give to one of my kids. So, please don't shoot the piano player here, I'm just thinking out loud...and as always, willing to try out things, even if they seem a bit crazy at times.

[Puddy Tat]

Nidecker Nano? 132cm. SCR is 6m. I haven't taken it to the type of slope that you describe. I did find that you really had to stomp landings as there is no tail to fall back onto and save you. The board is stiff to the point of being carvable and is hence super fun in softies. Basically the snowboard equivalent of snowblades.

I've found the shorter length really limits the top speed of the board , and I strongly suspect its a submarine in anything that resembles powder (especially with my 210lbs :)SS on it). Overall though really fun, though again I hadn't considered it for a super steep powder fest.

Cheers,

Dave

[Dave ESPI]

Dahl, I had one of the initial 50 Rossignol 121 "THE MINI" that were test market demo boards when they came out back in 04-05. I actualy have a post up around here about it having been stolen from a co-workers locker who I had lent the board to.

Without a seconds delay I would say it is a MUST HAVE for any serious snowboarder to have in a quiver. Its a lot of fun. Pure. Simple. It also really makes you mindfull of body positioning and balance, because of its unforgiving nose and tail. While I would be really hessitant to ride it with hardboots, I can say that it is a blast and carves just as hard and well as any long board in softies in all kinds of snow and pitch of trail.

Plus its super manouverable on crowded slopes and on the bunny hill while teaching :)

I have since replaced it with a standard production late '05 Black/White Mini, and have convinced about a dozen other people to get them and they absolutely LOVE them too.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Years ago, John M of Identity fame built a short little board that ripped. Long before the "Mini" and "Micro" boards were built.

I believe it was called the "Clone". Solid plastic, wide, short, soft. John swears it was a blast and worked really well.

[bumpyride]

Now, before I get shot for this one, just gotta let you know why. A while back, after the schtubby thread passed along its way, I did some thinking...then some experimenting, mentally. Then I bought a 119 Rossi Mini. Is there a place in a hardbooters quiver for something this short? I tried this combo out Sunday, on some steep, narrow patches of snow. I got turned back by a total whiteout from my true destination, 1300 vert of 35 degree spring corn. I did come back with some thoughts, though. At anything over typical slow speeds, it was just too short to feel stable, however, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Not what I would bring to do any fast riding! But, on narrow(15 feet), steep (50 degree stuff) snow, where jump turns are the norm, it was great. And it had more edge hold than I expected. Hmm...and nice and light on the back. Now the creative juices are flowing. I know some of the Euro steeps riders have custom sticks built just for the purpose, 150 to 155-ish long, I've heard of sidecuts in the 16+ radius range. I think Oxxess has done some, but I do not know for sure. So, my thoughts are these; light wood/glass layup construction, 150 length, schtubby type nose/tail profile, 12m + sidecut, 23.5 waist. 160 lb. rider with at least 20 lbs. in the pack. Will it work ok? Or am I all wet? As for the Mini, it'll get some patch boarding this summer, then maybe I'll give to one of my kids. So, please don't shoot the piano player here, I'm just thinking out loud...and as always, willing to try out things, even if they seem a bit crazy at times.

This is precisely why I use the Burton 156 Ultra-prime. Unbelievably low swing weight, very adept at jump turns, holds extremely well when setting a hard edge on ice, and carries speed reasonably well. It dies in over 6" of fluff, but screams on corn and in those icy chutes. Has an added bonus of loving to be in the air with a lot of pop. Actually did some fairly ugly Euros this spring. So it's my weapon of choice except when conditions dictate another board.

My son (the one you skied with) thinks the board is a little too stiff for him and he's in the 165 lb. range.

2nd choice for a board for those conditions would be a 156 Coil. Doesn't hold on ice as well, but killer in corn.

I always ride the shortest and lightest board that works for the prevailing conditions.

Off surfing tomorrow. If you're down this way sometime this summer let me know if you'd like to try. I have plenty of equipment.

[b0ardski]

Years ago, John M of Identity fame built a short little board that ripped. Long before the "Mini" and "Micro" boards were built.

I believe it was called the "Clone". Solid plastic, wide, short, soft. John swears it was a blast and worked really well.

I tried one of the shorty translucent plastic Identity boards John made for Blacktail's rental shop when they opened in 99-00. It was very much too soft for my 180#s and they rockered out after a few days use, nothing like the versatility of the stiffer mini. Looked really cool though.

That's when I fell in love with my Identity 173 carbon allmountain.

My 159 eldo kicked a$$ in steep icy chutes and bumps, especially before it softened up from over use. I like a stiff, short mountaineering board for spring conditions, easy to pack and hike with AT boots. The 165 nidecker escape now fills that niche in the quiver.

A 150 mountaineering schtubby sounds like a great idea.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

I tried one of the shorty translucent plastic Identity boards John made for Blacktail's rental shop when they opened in 99-00. It was very much too soft for my 180#s and they rockered out after a few days use, nothing like the versatility of the stiffer mini. Looked really cool though.

That's when I fell in love with my Identity 173 carbon allmountain.

My 159 eldo kicked a$$ in steep icy chutes and bumps, especially before it softened up from over use. I like a stiff, short mountaineering board for spring conditions, easy to pack and hike with AT boots. The 165 nidecker escape now fills that niche in the quiver.

A 150 mountaineering schtubby sounds like a great idea.

Thanks for that story. I found about them through another collector. He also had an ID 185cm race. That is how I fell in love with John's work.

If you see one of the little boards I would love to add it to the collection , photos would be appreciated too. I have one that was made slightler later in the evolutionary line.

[philw]

Lots of powder boards went shorter years ago, and they work fine. Ok, at 156 a Fish isn't as extreme as some of these things, but it probably works for the same reasons. Lower top speed/ slower acceleration, well yes, but quicker turning.

On soft steep stuff boards like this work I think because this is one place where the board has a lot of turning to do, and with very little tail they don't kick you out. A Fish or similar works well on anything other than hard icy steeps, where the width makes it less effective.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Jon have you considered rocker in this mix?

Short, stiff, fairly wide plus rocker? Seems like it too would help with quick

turns on the steeps?

Have you checked out the history in Europe. Many of the super extreme decents were done on hardboots.

[Jon Dahl]

Jon have you considered rocker in this mix?

Short, stiff, fairly wide plus rocker? Seems like it too would help with quick

turns on the steeps?

Have you checked out the history in Europe. Many of the super extreme decents were done on hardboots.

As a matter of fact, I am considering nose rocker, possibly a bit of tail rocker, too. W/o a lot of camber. Somewhat like the newer Coiler shapes. 23.5-24 waist. It is being influenced by the Euro steeps riders of the past, and the newer wider Coiler seems like the next step. Brooklyn/prez did one 164/23.5/14ish? sidecut in metal, also the D3 @159 (?) seems in the park, I just want to go smaller/lighter for summer stuff, and steeps/hike ins. There are a bunch of steep, narrow slots calling my name up my way, the kinda stuff you leave the 192 at home for! Yeah, I get kinda crazy this time of the season...