how much better are the newer boards?

[boardman73]

hey guys how did me asking if my old crap was holding me back turn into this metal war:argue:

[gdboytyler]

Here’s a video of me riding in CO on a 05/06 Donek FCII 163 and a Burton Coil 165 (late 1990’s?).

Both have around a 10m sidecut radius. I’m on the Donek in the first part of the video. I switch to the Burton at the 1:30 mark. My riding looks the same on both boards, and both boards felt very similar.

Becuase both boards are just wood and glass and glue there is very little differences in the boards construction. Plus your turns are not powerful enough to fully max out either board in the vids. Its when the shape forces the board to fail that is the biggest difference. If I ride either of thoose boards they just fold in half.... Usally at much differnt speeds how ever with the burton failing first.

:

Bordy's reasoning is actually what I was trying to get across. Switching to a metal board is NOT going to make me a better rider. When I get better and start to stress out my current equipment, then I can put the advantages of a metal board to use. I'd be better off using the money I save (from not upgrading to metal) on gas and just snowboard more often.

Most athletes gain up to and over a full second on a thirty second race course on metal, not the fractions of seconds you are using to quess about metal, but full seconds, Silly how you have already convinced yourself you don't need metal. Why not ride gear then judge it?

When there’s a demo day in So Cal, a metal board will be first on my list to demo.

Sure, competition shows absolute proof that metal boards are the best for racing. My argument is that there is only anecdotal evidence that metal boards significantly improve the performance of the recreational rider.

When Bobdea claims metal boards make any Donek look washed up, I simply ask for the evidence. From everything I’ve read about the metal boards, the Donek won’t looked washed up until the rider is hauling ass and hits some ruts or ice. I almost never run into ruts. I only occasionally encounter ice.

Again wood glass and glue, what do you think taper and proper camber profile combined with side cuts up to and over 18 meters would do to your riding??

I’d guess that board would make me a FACKIN hazard. Of course, if that board were to be magically available at the demo tent, I’d be willing to try it out.

[gdboytyler]

hey all was just looking for some input on how much better the newer boards are than boards from like say 5 to 10 years ago? i currently ride a plethora of old factory primes 163 167 173 185 etc and am trying to figure out if i should upgrade or just ride these old ones till they have negative camber and fall apart? i guess im just wondering how these older planks compare to the likes of coiler, madd, donnek, and others and if they are holding me back or not.

I think I proved that the old Burton Coil I was riding was NOT holding me back. But that didn't stop me from buying a new board.

Here's a quote from the Carver's Almanac:

http://www.alpinecarving.com/board_models.html

There is one disclaimer about boards from small manufacturers - most of the boards are expensive. Therefore, it is speculated that carvers rave about them regardless of actual performance, in order to justify the purchase to their wives.

[NateW]

hey guys how did me asking if my old crap was holding me back turn into this metal war:argue:

Probably because metal is the only big innovation since your current boards were made. So your question can be viewed as two questions:

1) Are modern wood-glue-glass boards much better than your current boards? I don't think you'll find many passionate responses to this one. They've gotten better, but not dramatically so.

2) Are modern wood-glue-glass-and-metal boards much better than your current boards? This is where passionate debate comes from. I haven't tried one myself so I'm just following along.

I've heard that metal boards have longevity issues, and I already have trouble with breakage, so I'm going to wait for a while. Gluing wood and fiberglass to metal seems like a hard problem, but hopefully it's a solvable one. Hopefully it won't take long before prices come down and reliability goes up (or my concerns turn out to be unfounded).

[BadBrad]

If you look at the alpine boards from the mid-90's from Rossignol, Burton, F2, Oxygen, etc. the shapes, widths, and sidecuts are very similar to the new boards from makers such as Donek and Prior. So at first glance it doesn't look as if there were huge advances made over the past 10 years, especially compared to the 10 years before that.

Now, I'm sure there is a lot more than meets the eye, such as newer materials, construction techniques, and flex patterns. So the question is if you are comparing the wood/glass boards of 10 years ago to those of today, has there been big advances in materials, flex patterns, etc.? If the shapes are similar and the materials essentially the same, then what makes the newer ones significantly better?

[skategoat]

Yolu can be as skeptical as you would like but there is just no arguing that a more stable platform makes more stable riders. Everyone on the National and world wide race tour has gone to metal boards, BOL posters are ranting about how much they love their metal boards but there are still people on the BOL board who need more proof? :lol: :lol:

I think the marketers call it "perceived value" or something like that. When you spend big bucks on an item, you're going to convince yourself it was worth it. I don't call that proof.

[pogokoenig]

Just because metal provides different riding characteristics it is very optimistic to say it is the holy grail in board construction.

Racing is not carving / freecarving. And carving takes place on any hill and any snow condition.

Ever tried to rip a bumpy narrow steep with a metal board?:rolleyes:

[Fastskiguy]

"Most athletes gain up to and over a full second on a thirty second race course on metal, not the fractions of seconds you are using to quess about metal, but full seconds...."

One second in a 30 second course is just amazingly huge, probably proof right there that they are a big improvement in performance.

And contrary to what some believe, I think good race equipment must be easy to handle, not hard to handle. It has to be made to perform well at the speed of the event too so if I take out some high level racers GS board it's not gonna work that well for me because I'm not going that fast (yet!) But ask the guy and he'll be like "turns real easy, stable ride, and holds like crazy in the course" or something like that. You'd expect (tho it's not proven) a similar improvement would happen if a metal board was made for "my speed".

My comments comparing the metal boards to the purple anodized mtb parts was aesthetic only....just to be clear. Same thing with Ti, used to be super cool to have a bare Ti colored bike frame, now lots are painted.

1 second in 30? Man, when I get into racing I'm gonna need me one of them things.

[pogokoenig]

Once again:

Ever tried to rip a bumpy narrow steep with a metal board?:rolleyes:

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[Istvan]

Of course many times straightlined down close to the side of the slope on the ice.... :lol: survived so far

You can also try the following: quick laid turn at one side, then fly over a few bumps and then an other quick laid turn. Have to admit the bumps can hit your hips / ribs badly... And of course it does not look super-liquid slow-mo EC...

Or did I misunderstand your question, Pogo?

[pokkis]

Just because metal provides different riding characteristics it is very optimistic to say it is the holy grail in board construction.

Racing is not carving / freecarving. And carving takes place on any hill and any snow condition.

Ever tried to rip a bumpy narrow steep with a metal board?:rolleyes:

Narrow bumpy road is very equal to racing/race track except on race cource they go real fast :D

So for that i certainly would take metal one. Old fasioned board are best on hero-snow on first half hour in morning ;)

[Bordy]

Once again:

Ever tried to rip a bumpy narrow steep with a metal board?:rolleyes:

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Yep, Metal wins again. Of course there will be some riders who still like a glass board for one reason or another. (cost mostly)

But you can really only make a comparitive statment if you have ridden both boards.

Ok I am only saying this one last time..... And I am yelling becuase i really hope every one listens

Metal boards are the best thing to happen to every aspect of alpine snowboarding in 20+ years

If you have ridden a metal stick you know. If you have not,.... stop quessing you don't know whats up. Only what you have read?

The durability issues are solved, the glue issues are solved this stuff has been fixed. Just go ride one and find out.

GDBOYTYLER wrote

"Bordy's reasoning is actually what I was trying to get across. Switching to a metal board is NOT going to make me a better rider. When I get better and start to stress out my current equipment, then I can put the advantages of a metal board to use. I'd be better off using the money I save (from not upgrading to metal) on gas and just snowboard more often.

Thats not my reasoning at all. My point was you still need to build some riding fundamentals. To truly feel a difference in the two boards you where riding, And with out over powering the 2 board you are comparing it hard to feel a differance. Its like comparing a corvette and a malibu at 15pmh they both feel fine. But when you go 90 and start sliding around corners theres a huge, difference.

Like I said A more stable plateform will make a more stable rider, requardless of who you are, If you are a charger then metal will make you throw all your other boards away. Metal boards make any of your non metal boards feel "crappy" Just like Bob, Mike Buell and many of the other BOL riders who converted and ride metal have commented on from first hand experance.

[brice540iit]

and was riding older Nitro, FP 164-171, Volant 162....

The difference in edge hold, comfort, aswell as the amount of work required to carve deep is incredible....

I never tried Metal...

[Bordy]

I think the marketers call it "perceived value" or something like that. When you spend big bucks on an item, you're going to convince yourself it was worth it. I don't call that proof.

Have you ridden a metal board? If you have then thats a great view, backed up with first hand experance.

If you have not then arn't you just quessing the proof isn't in the ride?

I don't spend money on alpine gear very often but I sure can tell how they ride reguardless of cost.

i did however pay for a Kessler.... After riding several for free for months.......Whats that tell ya...

[pogokoenig]

Of course many times straightlined down close to the side of the slope on the ice.... :lol: survived so far

You can also try the following: quick laid turn at one side, then fly over a few bumps and then an other quick laid turn. Have to admit the bumps can hit your hips / ribs badly... And of course it does not look super-liquid slow-mo EC...

Or did I misunderstand your question, Pogo?

Does this feel better with the metal board or with the Gladi?

[pogokoenig]

...Metal boards are the best thing to happen to every aspect of alpine snowboarding in 20+ years

...

Nope:p

[tex1230]

Originally Posted by Bordy

...Metal boards are the best thing to happen to every aspect of alpine snowboarding in 20+ years

...

^^ I thought it was when we finally ditched the asyms!

[Newmax]

Ok, I'll ask Ursle to let me try his metal Cyborg at SES to find out if metal is that important, since the "normal" Metals are too wide!

[Istvan]

Pogo,

If it comes to metal / non-metal comparisson, I would rather compare the ME109 and the X-treme, because the Gladi is a different league.

Between the above 2 you can really feel the difference due to the characteristics of the metal. Much more smooth, much more forgiving, much less demanding. But of course, as part of the challenge is gone, also part of the fun is gone...

Cheers

[roman]

istvan,

i'm wondering what you exactly mean with 'another league'? and, is the ti-x-carver a boring ride that fast? does it ride that easy?

thanx,

roman

[bobdea]

first I am going to say I have never been on a virus

but I second the idea of trying a wide metal board instead of the narrow one, something about the metal makes the boards feel a bit narrower.... allowing you to ride a wider board without it feeling like a door. so yeah a metal virus EC board would probably be a good time

BTW, on hero snow glass boards and metal boards are not that different except metal has less pop but the rest of the time is when metal counts in a big way.

Also, shapes are starting to change a fair bit too, Kesslers have been oddballs for awhile but the SGs and some of the new coilers are different shaped, the nose in particular.

I gotta email Brucey and see what goodies he's got in the works!

[Buell]

BTW, on hero snow glass boards and metal boards are not that different except metal has less pop but the rest of the time is when metal counts in a big way.

That is my impression as well.

Also, I found that the first day on a metal board will not necessarily tell you how it rides. The metal board will find its way through the carve in much different way than a standard wood board and the rider must actually learn to let it do its thing before realizing its potential.

I would not expect that metal is for everyone, but I wonder how many of the posters in this thread harping on metal have actually ridden one at all, let alone for a day or two.

Buell

[Neil Gendzwill]

Ever tried to rip a bumpy narrow steep with a metal board?

Yep, Metal wins again.

Bordy, are there durability issues in the bumps? I've had metal skis take a set (ie get permanently bent), but that was a long time ago.

[Allee]

Neil took the words out of my mouth! What's the feeling on the longevity of the metal boards now? I know that was a huge concern when the first ones were out, and more so than in a racing situation, real life on a commercial hill gives you good odds of coming a slammer on a regular basis.

I really want to try a metal at SES but my big issue is if I come a cruncher (which as I start to push my limits happens on a regular basis) I'd like the expensive board to hold together as it's being randomly bashed on the snow.

As for the OP's question -I had my Donek Olympic out yesterday, - that thing makes my 10 year old Hots look like 2 x 4's. I can't wait to try my Coiler for the first time on Sunday.

[Steve Prokopiw]

Although I have posted a few replies to other posts in defense of budget hardbooters such as myself,I do see that I am on the way to a metal board for next season.Most of the budget stuff I have purchased this year is to help others get into the sport.But much of it has been strategically purchased to help me figure out what I will want for the characteristics of my first true custom/metal to be as far as length,shape,width,sidecut and flex.All these factors combined with what I have been reading about metal should help me hit the nail on the head the first order.Of course, no one stops at just one....