how much better are the newer boards?

[Jon Dahl]

Long time lurker. Finally registered.

If the Donek/Rentigger/Prior is the base board I'm looking at

So what's the biggest bang for the buck?

I believe you have already identified your base board, and best bang for the dollar. Each has it's own selling points, for me personally the Volkl Renntiger is lively enough to give good feedback, yet stable enough in the chop to not get tossed around. RT's have some titanal in them, just not a full blown topsheet board. Just my $.02....

[boardman73]

was hoping to end this madness by demoing a coiler this wknd at stratton but due to the warmth my friend bailed on the trip:flamethro so back to the old trusty fp's for awhile not that they'll be much different jumping patches of mud down here:angryfire

[philfell]

Just because metal provides different riding characteristics it is very optimistic to say it is the holy grail in board construction.

Racing is not carving / freecarving. And carving takes place on any hill and any snow condition.

Ever tried to rip a bumpy narrow steep with a metal board?:rolleyes:

UMMMMMM.....yes racing IS carving!!!! You have to carve very well to win a world cup. All the guys racing world cup can out carve everyone posting here. They are going to ride the absolute best carving out there. To say the technology they are on does not apply to a recreational rider is absurd. Yes if most of the people got on Jasey's set up they would be in over their heads. But use the technology and tailor it to a recreational rider and it IS a huge improvement, not just a preceived improvement because you spent the money.

This is my take Titianal boards are better than the pre-titinal boards. Those that can't tell the differance are riding them improperly or don't have the skill set to ride the board for what it was designed for.

I've also read about metal is only good in rutty race courses, well there are bumps all over the mountain, unless you live where it is too firm to bump up, then metal gives better edge grip while still providing a soft enough board to bend on ice, so metal is still better.

If you guys are on the east coast come to Le Ralais this weekend, there is a Nor-Am PGS and PSL race there. Watch the top guys there, Vic Wild, Garrett Sorteburg, Matt Carter....all on metal....all carving like you could only dream of.

[boardman73]

UMMMMMM.....yes racing IS carving!!!! You have to carve very well to win a world cup. All the guys racing world cup can out carve everyone posting here. They are going to ride the absolute best carving out there. To say the technology they are on does not apply to a recreational rider is absurd. Yes if most of the people got on Jasey's set up they would be in over their heads. But use the technology and tailor it to a recreational rider and it IS a huge improvement, not just a preceived improvement because you spent the money.

This is my take Titianal boards are better than the pre-titinal boards. Those that can't tell the differance are riding them improperly or don't have the skill set to ride the board for what it was designed for.

I've also read about metal is only good in rutty race courses, well there are bumps all over the mountain, unless you live where it is too firm to bump up, then metal gives better edge grip while still providing a soft enough board to bend on ice, so metal is still better.

If you guys are on the east coast come to Le Ralais this weekend, there is a Nor-Am PGS and PSL race there. Watch the top guys there, Vic Wild, Garrett Sorteburg, Matt Carter....all on metal....all carving like you could only dream of.

with nice snow and no gates i could hang with those guys metal or no metal:biggthump ....................for about an hour:mad:

[philfell]

You could follow them around the mountain, yes. Follow in thier tracks no way. Booster2 please tell me you have some photos or better yet video of Justin Reiter's PGS runs from the last Steamboat event.

[Buell]

UMMMMMM.....yes racing IS carving!!!! You have to carve very well to win a world cup. All the guys racing world cup can out carve everyone posting here. They are going to ride the absolute best carving out there. To say the technology they are on does not apply to a recreational rider is absurd. Yes if most of the people got on Jasey's set up they would be in over their heads. But use the technology and tailor it to a recreational rider and it IS a huge improvement, not just a preceived improvement because you spent the money.

This is my take Titianal boards are better than the pre-titinal boards. Those that can't tell the differance are riding them improperly or don't have the skill set to ride the board for what it was designed for.

I've also read about metal is only good in rutty race courses, well there are bumps all over the mountain, unless you live where it is too firm to bump up, then metal gives better edge grip while still providing a soft enough board to bend on ice, so metal is still better.

If you guys are on the east coast come to Le Ralais this weekend, there is a Nor-Am PGS and PSL race there. Watch the top guys there, Vic Wild, Garrett Sorteburg, Matt Carter....all on metal....all carving like you could only dream of.

Nice to see you posting some on the main forum Phil.

Boardman73, I got to meet Phil and some of his racers at the WTC in Park City last year and the only hanging with them I did was on the first lift ride. Once they hit the snow, they were GONE! Of course my riding likely factors into it too. ;)

[Steve Prokopiw]

I can agree with a certain skill level and a good fit being needed to appreciate the difference between metal and nonmetal.It seems the same philosophy would hold true for having skills proficient enough to gain maximum enjoyment on a budget with a nonmetal board.It's still all about fun.Run what ya brung.:)

[boardman73]

You could follow them around the mountain, yes. Follow in thier tracks no way. Booster2 please tell me you have some photos or better yet video of Justin Reiter's PGS runs from the last Steamboat event.

k phill half an hour and 15 minutes of it in thier tracks:cool:.......then i'd need oxygen:sleep:

[photodad2001]

I'm wondering. I've looked at the prices for some of the boards that are being talked about on here and I have to say I was not prepared for how much we're talking about. And to have a quiver? I thought windsurfing was expensive. At least you're getting more per square inch on the dollar buying a new rig.

I was wondering if the difference in equipment is even noticeable on a begginer to intermediate level. I've some experience with speed (in-line) skating and with serious speed skaters the best racing skates made by K2 and Rollerblade are considered "toys". If you're not dropping over $500 for a boot, $200 for a set of wheels, and (believe it or not) $100-$200 for bearings you're just not "serious". However, I couldn't notice much of a difference trying a pair out. (not enough to make the price difference worth it anyway) My K2's retail for about $300 bucks and I could see possibly upgrading the bearings. Anything more I'd better be competing for an Olympic medal.

I guess what I'm asking is seriously... are these thousand dollar boards REALLY that much different from a $400 Burton Prime or is it more just slight nuances that unless you're out every day, you wouldn't really notice. I'm asking because there's a Burton Prime I'm looking at buying for just over $200 with shipping.

[skategoat]

Lookee...as the main dissenting opinion here, let me just clarify. I am not bashing metal, I am defending traditional construction. I guess we can call them "legacy" boards. I enjoyed riding my non-metal Coiler. I cried when broke it. Actually, the tears may have come from smacking my face on the nose of it.

As for racing technology, I get it. I drive a sports car. Technology gets proven on a race course and trickles down to us mortals.

As newbies enter this sport, I don't want them to think they have to drop thousands on the latest tech. You can enjoy yourself just fine on an old Oxy Proton and Burton plates.

[Corey]

I guess what I'm asking is seriously... are these thousand dollar boards REALLY that much different from a $400 Burton Prime or is it more just slight nuances that unless you're out every day, you wouldn't really notice. I'm asking because there's a Burton Prime I'm looking at buying for just over $200 with shipping.

My thoughts on the matter as a relative rookie...

I can only use a car analogy: If you really love driving cars on a road course, there's no denying that a high-end Porsche/Ferrari/Lotus/etc. is going to be an awesome machine and be wickedly fun to drive. But, you can still go out there and have fun turning laps in an 80's Civic, a 2000 Mustang, or a 2008 S2000. The Porsches (and the like) would be more fun and faster but only you can pick where the sliding scale between your budget and desired performance cross.

The only pieces of carving equipment I've bought at full retail are a set of TD2s, Intec heels, a BTS kit, and some Intuition liners. Everything else has been used or NOS because that'll all the budget I've chosen to spend. Ok, I'm also going to be ordering a 2nd board kit soon. ;)

I am blowing much of this season's budget going to go to SES as it looks like a real blast and I'll get to try out a bunch of newer boards - hopefully including metal. Maybe I'll be swayed to finally buy a new board!

[philfell]

I think 200 for a prime is way over priced. It's 15 year old stuff now. The primes stayed pretty much the same since they came out.

It's all a give and a take. A kid in college has a limited budget and will have to get by with whatever they can. A person with a high roller job could afford him/her self something much better.

So..... yes you can carve an old board, and for many $1400 for a Kessler with Hangle plates is well worth the money. Take a look at your finances, and see how much snowboard you can afford and go from there.

[boardman73]

Lookee...as the main dissenting opinion here, let me just clarify. I am not bashing metal, I am defending traditional construction. I guess we can call them "legacy" boards. I enjoyed riding my non-metal Coiler. I cried when broke it. Actually, the tears may have come from smacking my face on the nose of it.

As for racing technology, I get it. I drive a sports car. Technology gets proven on a race course and trickles down to us mortals.

As newbies enter this sport, I don't want them to think they have to drop thousands on the latest tech. You can enjoy yourself just fine on an old Oxy Proton and Burton plates.

amen to that brotha!!!

[photodad2001]

I think 200 for a prime is way over priced. It's 15 year old stuff now.

I was told it was a '99' and still in plastic wrap. I just got back from the classifieds on this site and will definately look somemore. Thanks.

[photodad2001]

I can only use a car analogy: If you really love driving cars on a road course, there's no denying that a high-end Porsche/Ferrari/Lotus/etc. is going to be an awesome machine and be wickedly fun to drive. But, you can still go out there and have fun turning laps in an 80's Civic, a 2000 Mustang, or a 2008 S2000. The Porsches (and the like) would be more fun and faster but only you can pick where the sliding scale between your budget and desired performance cross.

I'd say a Porsche and an 80's Civic is a considerable difference. I was thinking Porsche to Mustang comparison is more realistic and I could deffinately have some fun in a Stang. Thanks!

[philfell]

I think a Burton Prime and a Kessler with Hangle plates, is a simialr comparison to a porsche and a 80s civic.

A 99 Prime isn't all that different than the first year prime (a '95 I'm pretty sure, which was designed in '94 or earlier) It's 2008, give the guys still making alpine boards some credit for their innovations in construction and design.

[photodad2001]

A 99 Prime isn't all that different than the first year prime (a '95 I'm pretty sure, which was designed in '94 or earlier) It's 2008, give the guys still making alpine boards some credit for their innovations in construction and design.

I might be biting off more than I can chew, but here goes. What are the some of the differences in construction that causes such a huge gap in performance? The shapes obviously look the same.

[photodad2001]

I might be biting off more than I can chew, but here goes. What are the some of the differences in construction that causes such a huge gap in performance? The shapes obviously look the same.

Let me also add that I get to a nice resort once maybe twice a year. The rest of the season I'm stuck on my local hill that has an elevation equivilant to most western mountains elevation. My local spot has about a 500ft vertical, so I'm only getting a hand full of carves before I'm putting on the brakes. Would you spend the money on a porche so you could drive it to the corner and back?

[Steve Prokopiw]

You will find quite a few more positive than negative comments even here about Oxygen Proton boards and they can be had for similar prices as Primes.I have a very snappy, fun and responsive 168 proton that I love to ride and won't be selling anytime soon.I got it very cheaply and in excellent condition.Another route to go is keeping your eyes open and be ready to pounce on some of the used customs that come up for sale here.I have a Coiler that is awesome for medium to large sized hills that I bought from a member here for half it's original cost ,also in excellent condition.

[photodad2001]

Another route to go is keeping your eyes open and be ready to pounce on some of the used customs that come up for sale here.I have a Coiler that is awesome for medium to large sized hills that I bought from a member here for half it's original cost ,also in excellent condition.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Let me give you some more information and you give me your pick. I've got about $250 to drop (I want to get it so I can use it this season, I'll invest more next year) I typically ride at a small hill but want to be able to take it out west, I'm a bigger guy, not interested in the racing part, just want to soul carve. I've been snowboarding since 88 but just got serious about alpine this year. I've got Burton SI bindings and boots. Not sure about making the change to hard boots. I've skied before and not thrilled about making that change right now.

[Steve Prokopiw]

Well I love hardbooting so I'm always going to say 'Just do it" but there is a 172 Proton for 160.00 plus shipping for sale on page two of the classifieds.Timinor is the seller and a standup guy.At that price I don't see how you could go wrong with that board.It's possibly a good size for you and your hill and for the trips out west.Easy enough to carve but also grow into for awhile for a bigger guy who's new to carving.My 2cents

[gdboytyler]

UMMMMMM.....yes racing IS carving!!!! You have to carve very well to win a world cup. All the guys racing world cup can out carve everyone posting here…

If you guys are on the east coast come to Le Ralais this weekend, there is a Nor-Am PGS and PSL race there. Watch the top guys there, Vic Wild, Garrett Sorteburg, Matt Carter....all on metal....all carving like you could only dream of.

When's the last time a world cup racer put out a video that showed the racer laying down lines that the weekend warrior wanted to emulate? The last one I remember was an old Burton video with Bauer and Nerva. Those guys were laying down some good looking carves and carving 360's. That’s what inspired me to get an alpine setup.

I’m NOT dreaming about Olympic class racers running gates, let alone amateur racers. I’m sure the current crop of pro racers are also excellent carvers, I just never see it.

It may not be “fundamentally sound”, but I dream of carving like this:

The EC crew didn’t need metal.

The pro-metal retort will be: “the metal board will get you to your goal quicker and easier”.

Well, when it comes to EC, I haven’t seen anybody match Jacques or Patrice. So if the pros aren’t doing those EC style turns on their metal boards, maybe the metal isn’t an advantage for that style of riding. And if the pros can show up Jacques and Patrice on EC, they should video it. It would be great publicity. I mean with the advanced boards and much greater athletic ability, they should be able to slap that video together during a lunch break. The pros have got to know how famous the EC crew is among weekend warriors.

I suppose the other reason there are no videos of current pros doing the EC thing is because, the EC turn is so different from the race turn that the racers don’t want to get into any bad habits. But the bad habit thing didn’t stop Bauer and Nerva.

Or maybe they think its lame. If that’s the case, maybe that’s why there seems to be a disconnect between recreational riders and racers. Different aspects of the sport are what get us excited.

In surfing, it’s common to hear, “I want to ride like Kelly Slater”. In golf, “I want to swing like Tiger”.

When out snowboarding, I haven’t heard one single carver say “I want to turn like ‘insert pro racer”. I have heard numerous times, “I want to turn like the guys in the Swoard video”. That probably pisses off the pros to no end.

This is another rider I’d like to emulate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou9XQjSj1ms

Not much info on that video, so for all I know, he could be a world cup racer. But his board doesn’t look like metal either.

Then you got these guys carving it up on freestyle boards and softboots. I’m assuming the freestyle boards have no metal.

Until I see some spectacular free-carving on a metal board (or demo one), I’m staying on the unbeliever side of the fence.

[bobdea]

mark my words, the swoard will be metal soon if not next season the following season. I am betting the biggest thing keeping metal out of the swoard right now is cost and trying to find someone able to build it.

For what they do metal is huge, I know because I ride a metal board. soft, damp and torsionally stiff. the three things they have been singing about for years. A wide metal board is probably quite the hot ticket for EC style. maybe someone with a metal coiler EX or the metal virus or the penn fatjack can chime in.

I've always said I wish I could lay down a line like JJ anderson, Fozz, Jacoby, Nerva and a mess of other rippers that were also racers. laid carves are really fun and are nice to do every now and again but if you go to a world cup event and watch these guys you'll have a new respect for the unlaid turn.

a big reason why you don't see racers doing the laid turns is they 1 they could care less about impressing people with what they consider a novelty and 2 they are out training to run gates and don't have time or the money to film novelty turns.

Burton, DC, Mack Dawg, FLF and Grenade make snowboard films but don't put racers in them, they are more jib centric so you will not see films of racers riding anywhere really.

the EC movies? two guys making marketing videos for their boards. effective ones too. those guys are right on the money in some ways BTW.

[bobdea]

When's the last time a world cup racer put out a video that showed the racer laying down lines that the weekend warrior wanted to emulate? The last one I remember was an old Burton video with Bauer and Nerva. Those guys were laying down some good looking carves and carving 360's. That’s what inspired me to get an alpine setup.

I’m NOT dreaming about Olympic class racers running gates, let alone amateur racers. I’m sure the current crop of pro racers are also excellent carvers, I just never see it.

It may not be “fundamentally sound”, but I dream of carving like this:

The EC crew didn’t need metal.

The pro-metal retort will be: “the metal board will get you to your goal quicker and easier”.

Well, when it comes to EC, I haven’t seen anybody match Jacques or Patrice. So if the pros aren’t doing those EC style turns on their metal boards, maybe the metal isn’t an advantage for that style of riding. And if the pros can show up Jacques and Patrice on EC, they should video it. It would be great publicity. I mean with the advanced boards and much greater athletic ability, they should be able to slap that video together during a lunch break. The pros have got to know how famous the EC crew is among weekend warriors.

I suppose the other reason there are no videos of current pros doing the EC thing is because, the EC turn is so different from the race turn that the racers don’t want to get into any bad habits. But the bad habit thing didn’t stop Bauer and Nerva.

Or maybe they think its lame. If that’s the case, maybe that’s why there seems to be a disconnect between recreational riders and racers. Different aspects of the sport are what get us excited.

In surfing, it’s common to hear, “I want to ride like Kelly Slater”. In golf, “I want to swing like Tiger”.

When out snowboarding, I haven’t heard one single carver say “I want to turn like ‘insert pro racer”. I have heard numerous times, “I want to turn like the guys in the Swoard video”. That probably pisses off the pros to no end.

This is another rider I’d like to emulate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou9XQjSj1ms

Not much info on that video, so for all I know, he could be a world cup racer. But his board doesn’t look like metal either.

Then you got these guys carving it up on freestyle boards and softboots. I’m assuming the freestyle boards have no metal.

Until I see some spectacular free-carving on a metal board (or demo one), I’m staying on the unbeliever side of the fence.

also, that entire statement proves that you've never seen a great alpine snowboarder ride in person except maybe Patrice Fivat or you're not able to spot talent unless it's laid out.

Kinda like some people who watch pipe competitions and all they care about are inverts, some jackass can pull a crippler or a rodeo and 10 gapers next to the pipe have a wet dream over it but those same 10 joeys see a guy pull 1080 and don't blink a eye because it was not twirly enough for them and they are not able to recognizewhat they saw. but the cat that pulled the 1080 did something that takes allot of talent. He does not really care what the Joeys think.

Seriously, this is not just racers either there is more to freeriding on alpine than EC, there are some super sick freecarvers out there that don't feel the need to lay out every turn. With the exception of just a couple the best alpine riders I've had the pleasure to see ride or ride with all were either currently world class racers or had been at some point.

In fact one of the EC twins was a pro racer if I remember correctly.

at this point this thread is beating a dead horse. Either you know or you don't. Get on one or shut up.

Skategoat, you're excluded from that comment, you got one!

and BTW the Oxygen boards are not much better than a Burton FP if at all.

[pokkis]

Atleast for me FJ works great, somehow it feels even more forgiving than BJ, it might be wider waist or some other differences in boards. Anyway it really feels stable and easy driven. Unfortunately (or luckily) i dont have anything as wide non-metal to compare it right now.