Newbie question

[drzrm]

Hey guys,

I'm new to the Bomberonline.com. Been snowboarding for around 23 years now. I've been interested in Alpine for ages but never done it. I'm too old and fragile for pipes and parks, and I love carving (as well as one can without hard boots). Anyway, I'm 6'3" and around 220 and it's hard to get much information pertinant to boards and bindings for my size. I'd love to demo or rent to figure out what gear will best suit me, but I know there not much out there. I ride a long freeride board most of the time (172) unless I'm screwing around in bumps, and most days I still ride (I know I'm going to get a lot of s**t for this) Shimano Sky Lord boots with K2 Clicker bindings, b/c they have a hard shell, and they are stiff enough to carve in.

Anyway, I know I'm not looking for a pure race board, I'm not looking to crash gates. I've got my eye out here and on ebay for a mondo 30.5 boot, and I assume I want one one the flexier end of hard boots.

Anyone have advice on what makes sense. Can I transition in with a freeride board with alpine boots and bindings or should I change all at once? How long a board makes sense for me?

Thanks for your help.

Zach

[ursle]

good year in the east to start, get thee to eces this march, demos and lots of eager to help carvers

the starting gate near stratton 877-297-1213 , which just got it's thread yanked for advertising new boards on bol would be worth a call for an oxygen board, new at a great price make an offer, or call to chat about gear

[jtslalom]

drzrm,

I don't know how your riding style is now but if I were you I wouldn't bother going half way. If you are really thinking about getting into hard riding forget about the idea of a freeride board with hard boots, just get a middle of the road race deck. Look on the for sale section of this website. They got some pretty good stuff for good prices. I don't think you will find much hard gear any where else, at least honest people selling it. Do yourself a favor before going out and dumpoing a butt load of money on race gear. Be sure of your riding ability and your confidence level. The transition from soft to hard is trying for some.

Good Luck dude

[drzrm]

Thanks for the replies. I'm a pretty aggressive rider with hundreds of days of riding all over the country. I'm comfortable in the trees and on the bumps, so I think I'll be able to make the transition into real carving (of course we'll have to wait and see :D). I spent most of last season on a Burton Baron ES 172 (wide all mountain/freeride), and spent a few days riding with hardbooters last season (that's really what got me interested).

How much difficulty am I going to have getting my giant feet (30.5) on a carving board? And how much board sounds right for my 220 pounds (I've been thinking over 175 but I'm not sure where to start). I think I missed a great chance on Art's Donek Axis 177 the other day. Seems like it would have been a good set-up, but it's already sold.

Thanks again,

Zach

[tex1230]

+1 for starting gate - get over there and get some good boots fitted. my feet aren't as big as yours but I'm about the same size otherwise and I ride boards from 170 cm on up...the only board shorter than 170 you should even consider is a Madd 158 - but only once you have really learned to carve.

An Axxess 172 or 177 would be ok but they are a little soft for bigger guys - ok to start but you'll want something stiffer soon. If you're buying new or find a good used one get the axxess with olympic upgrade.

I got a Coiler EX 177 this year for a wider all mountain board (a little wider and more torsionally stiff than the AM) - I'll post my thoughts after I have a chance to ride it.

Also if you can stand the higher angles you can easily flex any of the old burton or volkl race stock boards - I think there was a 183 for sale in the classifieds. That would be a fun board.

[carvedog]

At 220 you shouldn't have much trouble flexing almost any of the boots out there, but you don't need a race boot to start necesarily.

I ride 5 different "soft" decks with hard boots and love it. If you go too much steeper in the angles than what you have been riding there will be transition. May not be much. YMMV. My favorite for lazy all terrain carving is my Burton Frontier. It is stiff enough that I dont fold the nose and it still carves like a banshee if I don't jump on it too hard. And it is wide enough the angles are mellow and fun.

I love all my race boards with 18cm, 19 cm waist too. It is just a different ( and much more aggressive ) style of riding.

I would mount up your favorite board with plates and try it out. You might find you love it. Then with some time and a demo or hooking up with some other bombers you will find out what appeals to your style as you develop it.

Sounds like you are ripe for the hard boots. For length 165 to 175 is perfect to start. You might find you want longer after a bit, but the normal or shorter will help when you start.

Good luck and welcome to Bomber

[Jack M]

Hi Zach,

Welcome! There's some reading to get you going in these links:

[drzrm]

Thanks Jack,

Ironically, I was just in the middle of reading those links thinking "I should have read these before I posted" when you responded.:rolleyes: Sorry. Anyway, I guess I'll start with boots and bindings and go from there. Please see my forthcoming WTB for 30.5-31 hardboots.

:D

Zach

Hi Zach,

Welcome! There's some reading to get you going in these links:

[drzrm]

Do you mean there are more 30s than 30.5s around, or that I should look to buy a bit small and let them break in? I got sized at a 30.5, but I assume I can go up or down a half size if I need to.

Boots, liners, and footbeds are your most important items

if you can squeeze into 30's or29's with a good bootfitter you will be way ahead of the game jmho

[Scuff]

Welcom Zach!

Lots of good information has already been posted in this thread, and there are even more articles available on the bomber site.

I'm 6'5" - 230lbs sz 29 boots. Riding a F2 184 for GS and will soon be riding a

F2 166 for SL. I do ride pretty high angles to avoid toe/heel drag.

If you're used to riding 0° angles on a freestyle board, it might take you a little while to get used to riding a race stance. 168-177 is a pretty comfy size, and boards in that range are fairly common.

Totally agree with jtslalom - If you want to try alpine, don't go just halfway. The board you ride can be just as important as the board/boot interface. A freestyle deck will certainly be more forgiving, float better in powder, etc.. but a noodly deck will result in a huge loss of speed and stability in your carves. To each their own - just know that by putting hard boots on a freestyle deck, you will certainly not be getting the same riding experience as riding a 100% alpine setup. No sir!

Also - Plate bindings are rigid - freestyle decks are often not - You're a big guy. Please be careful not to damage your freestyle deck.

(Shhhsssshhhh don't tell anyone, but when we get fresh snow, I sometimes pull out my twin tip with K2 clickers too..)

Best of luck to you!

[drzrm]

Well, thanks to everyone I've talked to here, and off site. I've had some great advice as to board stiffness, learning curve, suitable gear, etc. I seem to be set up for my first season of carving with gear which is probably over my head, but it means I won't have to start upgrading as soon as I learn to carve. Found some NOS Burton Funaces in my size, Rossi plate bindings (for now), and a Donek FC 1 179. This is definately the right time of year to pick up gear, huh? Thanks everyone.

I know I'll be forced into a steep learning curve but I can't wait for snow. I'll be sure to find someplace to take a lesson (I really can carve OK already in my soft boots).

Now just praying for snow.

[boarderboy]

Find thee a used, long(er) Burton E-Deck, Coil, or similar carver with slightly upturned tail & rounded corners. Will make the transitions from turn-to-turn much easier. Used Alps (up to 171 cm) also make great learners.

For the record, I'm a 60'ish 230 lb. big-footed carver of 20+ years' experience. Since some seasons on the south Ice Coast are so lousy, I may get in only 2-3 days a year. I find the comfort of easily-walkable boots (Scarpa AT's) and a relatively soft carve board the ideal combination.

Good Surf to Ya!

[trailertrash]

zach, watch the ride board for the sunappee trips in NH. if you can make it on a thursday you can hook up with some great riders. also, if you ask nicely you will probably be able try out a lot of boards.

john

[drzrm]

Thanks John,

I get up to Sunappee a lot, though I'm teaching T & Th this spring semester, so I'll be much more likely to show up on a MW or F. I'll also run out to Wachusett Mt. from time to time.

Boarderboy,

I almost picked up a Alp 171, it was a last minute decision to get the Donek. I figured once I got the hang of it it would be a better board, but maybe I should get that too if the price is right (or can get a bit righter), for learning and for crap conditions.

zach, watch the ride board for the sunappee trips in NH. if you can make it on a thursday you can hook up with some great riders. also, if you ask nicely you will probably be able try out a lot of boards.

john

[BlueB]

Well, Alp AND FC1 would have complemented each other just perfect. Alp would be your learning board and then remaind as AM alternative when the snow is less then perfect, while the FC1 is a hard ripper.

Boris

[Jack M]

your feet are waaaayyy to big for an FC 1. Very narrow board. You need an FC 2 minimum, preferably an Axxess (Axis), 4WD, or other wide carving board.

[BlueB]

He'll just have to ride it Skwal style ;)

[drzrm]

1.5 cm is going to make that big a difference? Well if it does not work I can always sell it or put it up for trade for a wider board. What do you think that difference in width translates into in terms of degrees/angle of binding setup?

your feet are waaaayyy to big for an FC 1. Very narrow board. You need an FC 2 minimum, preferably an Axxess (Axis), 4WD, or other wide carving board.

[bobdea]

your feet are waaaayyy to big for an FC 1. Very narrow board. You need an FC 2 minimum, preferably an Axxess (Axis), 4WD, or other wide carving board.

it will work it will just be a bitch to learn on, I with a 28.5 boot don't like boards under 19 cm and prefer them 19.5 to 20 cm

I ride wachusett as well, so feel free to get ahold of me once the season kicks off

[BlueB]

1.5 cm is going to make that big a difference? Well if it does not work I can always sell it or put it up for trade for a wider board. What do you think that difference in width translates into in terms of degrees/angle of binding setup?

Difference between FC1 and and AM board is about 3.5cm...

I do not quite remember how far forward Rossi bindings would turn, probably unlimited... If not, you've got a problem. You'll be riding in high 70s angles on 18cm wide board. On 21.5cm wide it would probably be low 60s...

[Jack M]

1.5 cm is going to make that big a difference? What do you think that difference in width translates into in terms of degrees/angle of binding setup?

Yes. Like 7 degrees or maybe a little more, which is significant. And aside from your binding angles, the narrow board will feel like a balance beam as you try to ride it.

Lots of people get a false bad impression of Alpine because they tried to start on the wrong equipment. Don't repeat history.

[drzrm]

OK, just to be clear, this may not be the board to learn on, but if I were to pick up the Alp 171 (or ideally an Axis) to learn on, this is a board I can hope to progress to?...depending on whether I like angles over 70. Fair enough.

Well, I really got a great deal on the board, and I have some time to change things up before there is snow on the ground, maybe I'll try to swap it for an Axis 177. At the very least, I'm still in the market for a good leaning board.

One last question (for now), do riser plates on Alpine boards allow you to get back any angle like they do on soft boots? Or does the fact that there should be no overhang at all mean risers don't help. Is there any benifit to them?

Yes. Like 7 degrees or maybe a little more, which is significant. And aside from your binding angles, the narrow board will feel like a balance beam as you try to ride it.

Lots of people get a false bad impression of Alpine because they tried to start on the wrong equipment. Don't repeat history.

[yyzcanuck]

And... with a smaller sidecut radius the board becomes wider, sooner as you move your stance further apart.

I think the ALP171 sidecut radius is in the neighborhood of 10m and the FC179I is 11 (someone care to provide the data?). So the additional width of the ALP coupled with smaller SCR equals MUCH wider at your stance width. You'll really appreciate that when first stepping into the alpine gear.

[yyzcanuck]

Do you mean there are more 30s than 30.5s around, or that I should look to buy a bit small and let them break in? I got sized at a 30.5, but I assume I can go up or down a half size if I need to.

With DeeLuxe, the shell for a size M30 and M30.5 is the same. If you could get your foot into an M29 shell you would be able to decrease your binding angle. BUT>>> I'm all for a comfortable foot above all else. Nothing is more distracting than sore feet. Go with what fits.

...the fact that there should be no overhang at all mean risers don't help.

Don't worry about overhang... yet. Unless you're able to inclinate the board to very high edge angles, you won't need to worry about overhang. Start with low angles, let your carving progress until you're digging in toes and heels, adjust your angles steeper, repeat process.

[Jack M]

OK, just to be clear, this may not be the board to learn on, but if I were to pick up the Alp 171 (or ideally an Axis) to learn on, this is a board I can hope to progress to?...depending on whether I like angles over 70. Fair enough.

Maybe. Of course you'll be able to progress to the point where you *can* ride and carve the board quite well, but you still may not like it. Narrow boards are an acquired taste, and many experts simply don't like them.

Well, I really got a great deal on the board, and I have some time to change things up before there is snow on the ground, maybe I'll try to swap it for an Axis 177.

I think that would be a great idea.

One last question (for now), do riser plates on Alpine boards allow you to get back any angle like they do on soft boots? Or does the fact that there should be no overhang at all mean risers don't help. Is there any benefit to them?

Some, not as much as with softies. As your skill level increases, you will be tilting that board up very high.

This is the amount of overhang I allow myself with TD2 step-ins and no risers:

That's an 18.5cm wide board by the way, and I have size M28.5 boots.