guesswho Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 I am looking to buy my first alpine board, after my first season on a freeride board. You might say Im jumping the gun, but I love diving into things head first, and it always seems to work for me. I'd like to think that I learn pretty quickly. I learned to carve on my freeride board on maybe my 5th trip to the local mountain, using only what I have read on this forum and alpinecarving.com. Im not saying Im really good at it, but I can definitely lay down a trench. I am currently on a soft boot/binding setup with a 158 burton elite (eff edge. 121cm, waist 25cm) freeride board. As to be expected, the board wobbles and flexes like crazy during a carve, and I know thats just not right. I am about 5'7-8 and weigh about 155-160 lbs. I longboard frequently in the summer, and feel comfortable hitting intermediate snowboard trails in the winter. Again, I've only been on the slopes like 8 times or so, it was a short season from what I hear. Judging from the characteristics of the different types of boards at alpinecarving.com, Ive decided to go with a freecarve board, and am currently in love with the F2 Silberpfeil :) I've heard this board is rumored to have a bit of a steep learning curve, but I feel confident enough in my abilities, that I think I can tackle it. (I hope im not coming off as over-confident). I was thinking of getting the board new (or used if I can find it), some cheap used bindings, and some mid-level boots (high end if I can get them on sale). So, my question is, am I completely mental? What length should I get? I was thinking a 162. If this isnt the board for me, any suggestions? P.S. I live in NYC so, unfortunately, demo'ing a setup and trying stuff on, isnt really an option for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 where do you ride? If, like alot of new yorkers, you head for stratton, the startingate will hook you up with demo boots and boards. good people there. at your height and weight, you will probably get bored with a 162 silber quickly. they are very turny. IMHO you would do better on a donek axis 167 or 172...(or 4wd, or atv, etc...) i would also suggest looking for a used board now. this is the time of year when deals can be found, and you can get into a decent setup for a couple of hundred dollars nw, then try it out when the snow flies again, and if you like it you can easily upgrade (cared for properly, used equipment really holds its value) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 I'm not a big fan of the silb, if you want a shape similar but superior I'd go with a Madd 170 but there are better options than both that said, the most friendly boards that I've been on that also perform really well for hard carving is the coiler AM, if I had to choose just one board that's what it would be for sure. If you can afford it go with the metal option if you do get a coiler. speaking of metal, probably the best freecarver out there is the prior WCR metal it's just not as versitile as the Coiler AM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Burton Elite? you mean one of these? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Shred is bored again:lol: I learned on an elite 140 in 1980 something its a brutal straight edged bastard:freak3: Carving it??? turning it is unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Guesswho, Welcome! If you have not already read it check out: http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/welcome_center.cfm This is our Welcome Center, a collection or articles and information to help someone like you get into the sport. That said a couple, of things to think about. If you have a limited budget and are thinking of getting some of the gear used then my rule is to get the boots new and the rest used. The boots are the critical link to you and the hardware. A good boot has a great life-span and should last you over 5 years, no problem. Boots I would recommend would be on the softer side like the Deeluxe Track 225 or the Suzuka. Lots of adjustments and they come with the moldable Thermo-Flex liners which are like having little hot-tubs on your feet, comfy and warm! Going with a Freecarve board for a first is a great idea. Also don't forget to look at what we call "All Mountain" carve boards like the Donek Axxess and the Prior 4WD and ATV. They tend to be a bit softer and wider and are great for the first timer and then they become an invaluable part of your quiver (oh, and you WILL build a quiver). The F2 Silberpfeil is a fantastic board for the first timer and we sell quite a few of these just for that reason. We use them quite a bit in our demo fleet as well for these same reasons. The best part is this board is NOT something you will out-grow, it is a performance board but with a shape and flex that is not crazy aggressive. As far as length (very debatable) I would suggest around the high 160's. At your height and weight you will have no issues and this size is more "universal" for various conditions and types of turns. Don't forget, you up-size the length from your freestyle board. I know that in the softboot world a high 160's is considered "huge" but in the hardboot world it is a medium length. As far as checking all this gear out that is the tough one we are working on. The guys at Starting Gate are fantastic and your best option if you make it up that way. Ask for Shawn as he is very knowledgeable. More then welcome to call us as well and we can answer any other questions you have. Good luck and get ready for the addiction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebu Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 (oh, and you WILL build a quiver) :o I snowboarded for 8 years on the same board. The winter that I started hardbooting I now retired that board and have 3 more to take its place. All used, but still, it's awesome having boards that are a little more specialized.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Welcome! I 2nd the high 160s idea. I would try to demo / borrow few different types, or buy something cheaper used, try, sell, buy something else, etc. Afeter a year or so, you would have an idea of what's THE board. From the other hand, an all-mountain carver is indispensable part of any quiver, so if you went Axxess, 4WD, AM, you are likely to keep it. I can bet that you would still build from there and eventually have a rip-stick and pow-stick, too... Boots... well, try few models if possible at all. The shell fit is very different from make to make (wide feet / narrow feet, etc.) Once you've established that, buy new, custom fit them, and keep untill they fell appart. Don't go too cheap on bindings. TD2/OS2 for stiff feel, F2/Snowpro for softer feel. I ride the Snowpros on my AM/pow setups, and TD2s on my ripping setups. Boris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebu Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Sorry, I meant to say welcome, but got caught up a bit... Welcome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswho Posted May 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2007 Sorry, I meant to say welcome, but got caught up a bit...Welcome... lol, Thanks. Man, you guys are awesome with replies. Actually bobdea, heres a pic of the what I ride http://www.mamboo.ru/upload/burton07elite_m.jpg Also, those boards you recommend sound like a good idea, but price is definitely a factor here (broke college student), I will keep an eye out for those boards in the classifieds though. Same for the Priors Tex mentioned. Question: How bad are freecarve boards at handling bumps and end-of-a-crowded-day trails? I'd like to go with a freecarve, but the all-mountain seems a bit more reasonable. Is the Silberpfeil unusable on crud? Some of you guys seem to think its a not a great choice, but its a bit more affordable than others, even new. And I know graphics arent important at all, but its a SWEET looking stick, lol. I was a little concerned about out-growing it, so thats good to know, Fin. I read that there should be atleast one softer link in the chain, be it either boots, bindings or board, because if theyre all stiff than it makes for a crappy ride. Where is the Silberpfeil in terms of stiffness, compared to other boards? I see where you are coming from with the boots. Its the same thing in speed skating, proper boots come first, then everything else afterwards. High 160's it is! I was just a little concerned. You're right, my freeride 158 setup is considered fairly large, and isnt very flickable at low speeds. I have checked out the welcome center before, its a great source of info. "carving the norm" is what helped me with my first carve more than anything. I guess I'll plan a trip up to the starting gate at stratton. Its like a 5 hour drive, so I may try to make a weekend of it this winter. Man, it is way to early in the summer for me to want to ride THIS bad. How do you guys do it? My longboard just isnt enough! I keep looking for a lift when I get to the bottom of a hill, just to remember that I have to push MYSELF back up to the top. That is unacceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted May 26, 2007 Report Share Posted May 26, 2007 Question: How bad are freecarve boards at handling bumps and end-of-a-crowded-day trails? [...] Is the Silberpfeil unusable on crud? I've never riden one, but I have a 162 F2 SL board (I weight 62kgs) which I suppose is a bit more "race" oriented than that, and it's easy to ride in crud, so I doubt you'd have a problem. Crud is easy on an alpine board: the mushier it is the easier it is. Just ignore it. Or seek it out - you can do slashy stuff in it and if the rest of the piste is scraped clean then that's where the easiest turns are. If you mean broken-up off-piste stuff, "mashed potatoes" and all... that's easy enough to ride on this type of board too, although it's another technique you'll have to learn. Bumps are a bit different - the SL board I have needs to be ridden hard to work, so you need to be fit or have spot-on technique to rattle through bumps with any style & speed. The Silver thing should be more compromising I'd say. As you already have a flopsy setup, if you found you weren't able to hack all conditions on the F2 then you always have a fall back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted May 26, 2007 Report Share Posted May 26, 2007 Good decision on high 160s. Longer board gives you more edge and bigger sweet spot. You don't wont to flick it too often - you'll be carving it. IMHO, AM board is just a fatter freecarver, with added versatility of more nose and tail. My 4WD 174 was my most ridden board last season. When in doubt, I take that one, also, I often teach on it. Other (cheaper) AM or AMish options are Burton Speed Wide (love it!), Burton Alp, Rad-Air Hornet (SL board disguised in AMish shape), Burton Coil, F2 CrosX... I didn't ride the Silber, but there' certainly enough good reviws about it. Closest thing I rode was an old (narrower) Renntiger. Sure thing, it was quick edge to edge and had decent edge hold, but I didn't like small nose and narrowness when not on hard pack. Another board that performed well for me as freecarver and some AM is Generics IQ, due to almost 20 waist and decent nose. A bit on stiff side, though, and not likely that you'll find one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswho Posted May 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 Thanks for the advice. I think I might actually use Bomber's Spring sale for the board and bindings and save some money for next season. I dont think I'll have a hard time finding good bindings, but I dont know about the boots. I am a size 27, and its not available in any of the boots. I guess I'll have no choice except to go to the starting gate and get them in person, which is probably better because I get to try them on. Would I be correct in assuming that 27 is a popular size and will sell out quickly? Can I expect them to be more expensive at the store than on the website, or is the pricing pretty standard? And I know there probably isnt a simple answer to this, but should I, as a first time hardbooter, be looking into getting step-in or standard bindings, and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 If buying Raichle/Deeluxe, go at least 1/2 size lower than your street shoe. Probably a full size. They run their sizing too big. If you have wider feet go Head. I would go with standard bails - more flexible and gives you the opportunity to ride intec non-comptible boots. Like ski boots, for instance (I'll get flamed for this ;) :D ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 there's a metal wcr 177, quite honestly if people try to say anything else is a better freecarver they're either on crack, a kessler or a metal coiler, one of the three at least the boots, they are more expensive usually in the store but you more than make that money back at a place like the starting gate because they will usually get you in the perfect "race" fit for way less than if you walked in with boots that were from another shop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 How do you know you're a size 27? I rode a F2 SP this year and had a really good time on it. It's my first proper alpine board. It was ridden in the mid-atlantic a lot, and while the snow was just cruddy and not bumpy it handled it fine. It rides very damp and I could barely feel the crud. It was cool because my friends kept commenting on how quiet I was while the board was flexing around like crazy under me. Neat. When things got properly bumpy, though, the SP went away and I switched over to soft boots. It's a really good tool for me, but it's not an all around ride. I think it held a good edge and rewarded me when I used proper technique and didn't punish me too badly when I didn't! I weight about 160 with gear and have wear LeMans boots (Track 225 now) with softer bindings; SnowPro Race at first, then F2 Race Titaniums. I much prefer the F2 bindings over the SnowPros. I was comfortable on crud with this setup, though everything became too stiff when I locked my rear boot. Depending on your weight, you mileage may vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Would I be correct in assuming that 27 is a popular size and will sell out quickly? Can I expect them to be more expensive at the store than on the website, or is the pricing pretty standard? And I know there probably isnt a simple answer to this, but should I, as a first time hardbooter, be looking into getting step-in or standard bindings, and why? Welcome Guesswho! Yes, you are correct. 27 is the most popular men's size. I know, I sell them all the time and it is usually one of the first sizes we run out of. This time of year it's hard to find anything except really big or really small. We will have more boots in November. Pricing is pretty standard across the board whether online or in store - we like to keep things nice in this small community As for step in or standard - it's all about personal preference. The only difference is convienence. Step in's in hard boots are nothing like step in's in softies. I won't ride step in's in softies - they are a real pain in the you-know-what. But I won't ride anything except step in's on my hard boots. And for all you guys that say step in's are too stiff - I'm a girl. :p But honestly, it's all about what you like and what WORKS for you. So take everyone's advice because it's great stuff, and then make your own decisions. Let me know if you have any questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Sorry, I forgot the most important thing! As for sizing for your boots, go here and follow these instructions. If you follow them correctly, I can usually fit someone via email about 99% of the time. DO NOT CONVERT YOUR STREET SHOE SIZE! Bad move,and you will probably have boots that end up not fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Yellow Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Sorry, I forgot the most important thing!As for sizing for your boots, go here and follow these instructions. If you follow them correctly, I can usually fit someone via email about 99% of the time. DO NOT CONVERT YOUR STREET SHOE SIZE! Bad move,and you will probably have boots that end up not fitting. ooohhhhhhh - is that why my feet have hurt for years.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 check the classifieds - there's a 167 axxess for sale in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebu Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 I don't think I've said it yet, but I measured my feet, one at 27 and the other at a little over 27.5. I ended up getting some used raichle 124s (with rabs on them) with some thermoflex liners. I'm glad I went with the 26 instead of trying to find some 27s. I think I hit the end of the liner (barely, not noticable when riding) but I take the liner out and do the test and my feet just about swim in there. If in doubt, err on the side of tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 there's a metal wcr 177, quite honestly if people try to say anything else is a better freecarver they're either on crack, a kessler or a metal coiler, one of the three at least How exactely the Kessler makes for a good freecarver? I admit that I didnt ride one, but I rode next to Fast Freddy and inspected his board. In his own words "it's a hard board to ride". The thing has disfunctional nose design (for enithing but icy ruted race course). Stupendous amount of taper probably doesn't make "hooking up" nor finishing the turns all that easy. Then progressive sc, from 24+ to 18m, is not exactely a freecarving radius either... Boris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 depends on what you want from it, I considered huge race sticks like 200ish great freecarvers when I had the room. I've been on a older kessler but it was so brief that I can't really say that it was a great ride with authority but it was not like it was a "serious" board like the friggin' planks that the burton team used to get or some of the older priors and doneks that some people ride here. hangl plates make the boards a bit more intense to ride though also, there's allot of diversity with the kesslers from what people who've bought them tell me, a bunch of different shapes and like Donek, Prior and Coiler they will do anything you want for a price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 there's a metal wcr 177, quite honestly if people try to say anything else is a better freecarver they're either on crack, a kessler or a metal coiler, one of the three at least As a recently converted metal "crackhead" - LOL! I've got both a Prior 177 stiffened to my weight and a Coiler AM-T 172 / 12m. The Prior is the winner on ice (e.g. spring freeze/thaw, 1st thing in the AM) but if I could only keep one deck it would without question be the Coiler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 see! my point exactly. I guess the way I think about it is this, metal is the **** and all the boards that I've been on that have it are sooooo much easier to ride AND at the same time perform better when you really get on it there is no reason to waste your time with anything else and they are worth the extra money because they eliminate some of the need to have multiple boards because they rip grrom great but are so much easier to ride in the chop I don't feel like switching to something softer late in the day like I do with the older stiff board without the stuff. metal=more runs before you get tired and better performance thats priceless or actually it does have a price, about $200 more than a F2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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