Please be patient with the newb

[bobdea]

and FYI, I was one of the naysayers before I had one, but the product speaks volumes when you ride it.

period.

[BlueB]

I'm not saying metal's bad, contrary, I'll probably get one. But, Priors have nice nose, scr in line with freecarving norms, reasonble taper.

Kessler that I loked at didn't meet that criteria...

[Jack M]

My Prior Metal 177 does not yet have the same tune as my Madd 158 and 180 (PTC), so the jury is still out as to which has ultimate grip on ice. But the way people are extolling metal here, you would think that metal boards are so much better that the tune wouldn't matter as long as they were both sharp. But I digress...

It is a matter of feel and preference. Generally, metal boards are going to be more damp. Non-metal boards are going to be more lively. Which do you prefer? For freecarving on smooth conditions, I'll take a lively board every time - they're more exciting. On rough conditions, damp boards are more comfortable, versatile, and easier to ride.

That said, my Prior strikes a nice balance between lively and damp. It's a great do-it-all board. It's my VFR. However my Madds are my 748 and 998, respectively.

[zoltan]

It's my VFR. However my Madds are my 748 and 998, respectively.

Nice.

[guesswho]

How do you know you're a size 27?

Well, Im coming from inline speed skating, another sport where precise boot fit is absolutely essential. There, boots also use the mondo point scale, and a 27 fits me like a very snug glove. We actually use the same exact method to measure boot size as Michelle mentioned.

As for the metal boards, I would love to get one, but right now my choice is either get a mid-level board or continue trying to carve in my super softie freeride setup, and that just wont do.

I actually do have wide feet, so maybe I will look into head boots. But I have heard some that people have had major issues with head warranties. Any comment on that?

I think Im gonna have to think about the bindings a little bit longer, because the standard ones may be more compatible, but I am really only going to have one setup for a while. Plus, Im all about the convenience, lol.

[Michelle]

As for the metal boards, I would love to get one, but right now my choice is either get a mid-level board or continue trying to carve in my super softie freeride setup, and that just wont do. .

Keep in mind that boards aren't (in my opinion) considered "advanced" or "beginner" - they are just designed to perform differently depending on what you want the board to do. One might be softer, more damp, or on the stiffer side but if you are a beginner and that is what you are looking for (maybe you are over 200/under 150 lbs or are very aggressive, or just like stiffer/softer equipment) than you have to choose the board that is going to perform as you want it to.

I actually do have wide feet, so maybe I will look into head boots. But I have heard some that people have had major issues with head warranties. Any comment on that?.

HEAD boots have not been proven to be any wider than the Deeluxe boots, although some people on this forum will say they think they are. I have been told they have the same inside volume. They are NOT considered a "wide" boot. With that said, I have had excellent results from my HEAD contacts whenever there is a warranty problem, which is not often. Perhaps these people are buying them from an unreliable source? Buying from a reputable dealer will ensure they will (should) go to bat for you with the manufacturer and if they still can't get any results, they will usually cut you a deal for empathy.

I think Im gonna have to think about the bindings a little bit longer, because the standard ones may be more compatible, but I am really only going to have one setup for a while. Plus, Im all about the convenience, lol.

More compatible with what? All of the boots on the market now that I know of (that are sold in the US) are compatible with Step In, unless you are using ski boots and we all know how I feel about that. ;)

[pebu]

Keep in mind that boards aren't (in my opinion) considered "advanced" or "beginner" - they are just designed to perform differently depending on what you want the board to do. One might be softer, more damp, or on the stiffer side but if you are a beginner and that is what you are looking for (maybe you are over 200/under 150 lbs or are very aggressive, or just like stiffer/softer equipment) than you have to choose the board that is going to perform as you want it to.

What are traits that the typical beginner would feel comfortable with? I know I could throw out some terms and share my experiences, but they're only my experiences and what I've read. I thought it might be helpful to hear it from somebody who's seen alot of people through the beginning stage.

I think I'd be more comfortable in soft boots, a fairly stiff binding setup and a fairly soft, but lively board. But I havent' been able to experiment a whole lot with different setups.

[zoltan]

How much do you weigh and what conditions do you usually ride?

[Michelle]

What are traits that the typical beginner would feel comfortable with? I think I'd be more comfortable in soft boots, a fairly stiff binding setup and a fairly soft, but lively board. But I havent' been able to experiment a whole lot with different setups.

Because of a lot of people saying this to me, I tend to start people out on all mountain boards, depending on their background. In other words, if they have a background in softies, or skating or surfing, I would start them out on something that is more familiar - wider board, less angles, softer flex, softer nose and tail for ease of transition into and out of turns. If they come from a skiing background, then either is ok. Usually skiers are used to standing forward with stiff boots, so they do ok starting on a carve specific board.

This is a HUGE generalization and is only my opinion. It also doesn't mean that all mountain boards are for beginners only, and carve specific boards are for more experienced people. It just means that I think people find it easier to learn on a board that is a bit wider and softer, where they don't have to be so aggressive on their first day. All mountain boards are fantastic for what they are designed to do - go all over the mountain.

I hope I'm not digging a hole here.

[Jack M]

I'll second Michelle on the All-Mtn Carver as a first board for a newbie. I started my wife, sister, and father on square-tails, and they had some trouble. Transitioning to the round-tail AMC's opened the door for them.

[zoltan]

I personally don't like the lower angles of an all mountain board. My mechanics break down between 40 and 55 degrees where you're doing a hybrid of dropping your hip side to side and front to back. Things really fell into place once my angles got up into the high 50s.

[dirk109]

Hey Guys,

GuessWho, I will defiantly take care of you next year. My demo fleet is pretty rounded. We will be carrying only Donek & Coiler next year. We will have boards, boots and bombers for you to demo. I have some '06-'07 Nidecker and Oxygen stuff if that tickles your fancy. I am out of the shop until Columbus Day weekend. I am sure most of your questions can be answered here.

Sean

Startingate

Bondville, VT

802-297-1213

[Michelle]

I personally don't like the lower angles of an all mountain board. My mechanics break down between 40 and 55 degrees where you're doing a hybrid of dropping your hip side to side and front to back. Things really fell into place once my angles got up into the high 50s.

Understood. But we are talking BEGINNER here. I even got lost with this post. Those are things that are not at all relevant to a newbie.

[Michelle]

Hey Guys,

GuessWho, I will defiantly take care of you next year. My demo fleet is pretty rounded. We will be carrying only Donek & Coiler next year. We will have boards, boots and bombers for you to demo. I have some '06-'07 Nidecker and Oxygen stuff if that tickles your fancy. I am out of the shop until Columbus Day weekend. I am sure most of your questions can be answered here.

Sean

Startingate

Bondville, VT

802-297-1213

Cool Sean - hook him up! It's good to know that you guys have demos too. I'll pass the word along.

[pebu]

It's ok Michelle, that's what I was looking for. If anybody starts in on ya I'll back you up. (Not that my word carries much stock, but still...)

[Michelle]

Thanks Man!;)

[tex1230]

In Case anyone missed that:::

Hey Guys,

GuessWho, I will defiantly take care of you next year. My demo fleet is pretty rounded. We will be carrying only Donek & Coiler next year. We will have boards, boots and bombers for you to demo. I have some '06-'07 Nidecker and Oxygen stuff if that tickles your fancy. I am out of the shop until Columbus Day weekend. I am sure most of your questions can be answered here.

Sean

Startingate

Bondville, VT

802-297-1213

WOW!!!

[zoltan]

Understood. But we are talking BEGINNER here. I even got lost with this post. Those are things that are not at all relevant to a newbie.

But I'm still a newb as well!

I was fortunate to figure out those angles didn't work for me, otherwise I would probably be on a AM board and doing worse than I am now. Yeah, there's a good chance this doesn't apply to the OP, but it's still something to consider, especially given the price of boards.

[BlueB]

One can always ride with a bit of underhang, with personal comfortable angles, and still take the advantages of wider AM board.

I pretty much can not ride properly much below 40deg on the rear...

[Michelle]

Point taken. However,

I am looking to buy my first alpine board, after my first season on a freeride board.

. He has never even been on a HB board, and only a softie a few times.

I think the lesson to learn is that everyone is different, and you just have to get out there and try something so that you can have a point of reference. That's why demos are so great.

Guesswho, if you can get up to Stratton and check out Sean's demos then you will have something to gauge yourself on. And Sean can help you out with other info, he knows his stuff.

But maybe we've scared him away already because the last 14 posts have been us blabbing away.....

Guesswho come back:biggthump As you can see, we're all pretty passionate about the sport and would love to help you out.

[guesswho]

Sorry, I got a little busy lately and forgot about the mess I started here, lol. You guys are awesome! I love that passion you guys have. Its amazingly similar to the kind you find on the inline speedskating boards. In certain aspects speedskating and hardbooting are pretty similar. I think recreational skating is to speedskating as freeride is to carving. Both are just much more focused forms of the original where precision of equipment and technique especially are paramount to success. Yes, I am a beginner, but I am not afraid to dive right in. I feel confident enough that I can pick it up even though the learning curve is a little steep. Hopefully, my experience with body positioning and extremely controlled weight transfers will serve me well here. Michelle, in addition to skating, I longboard as well, I dont know if this helps you understand my background. Also, I will try to find out what the current binding angles are on my freeride setup to give you guys an idea.

Zoltan, I am about 155 lbs and usually ride mountains like Hunter and Windham, much smaller than those big beautiful hills you guys have out west. So its basically hard pack/corduroy in the mornings with some chop towards the end of the day, depending on if its a popular trail or not. Wierdly enough, I feel the same way about the binding angles. Because my board has like a 250mm waist, I cant afford to go that high for fear of too much underhang and not enough leverage (I think im using the term correctly). But I do feel that I would be able to shift my weight and lean more correctly if my binding angles were higher, but again it could just be my inexperience talking.

Also, Im not really sure about how the demo process works. Can you sample multiple boards in one day? Is the Startingate located ON a mountain, or close to one? Is there a fee? Contract? Kidney exchange? Im afraid to think of what kind of deposit I would need to put down on an $800 board with $400 boots and $300 bindings. Plus, I will have to drive up from NYC for the day. Not sure I could afford to spend the night in a hotel.

*Thinks about it* Good lord, how much will I be spending Sean? Unless theres a major sale, I dont think I can handle the expenses. This isnt really a sport for the financially challenged, is it? lol.

[tex1230]

Sorry, I got a little busy lately and forgot about the mess I started here, lol. You guys are awesome! I love that passion you guys have. Its amazingly similar to the kind you find on the inline speedskating boards.

I knew it! Guesswho = Apollo Anton Ohno!!!

Also, Im not really sure about how the demo process works. Can you sample multiple boards in one day? Is the Startingate located ON a mountain, or close to one? Is there a fee? Contract? Kidney exchange? Im afraid to think of what kind of deposit I would need to put down on an $800 board with $400 boots and $300 bindings..

Not to speak for the gate, but as of last year, they charged $50 a day for demos, and if you buy something they would apply part or all of the demo fee to your purchase. They are at the bottom of the Stratton access road, about 2.5 miles from the base. I'm not sure if they allow switching off during the day, but it would be a bit of a hassle to drive down and switch boards mid-day. If you do, take a skinny board in the morning and an all mountain carver in the afternoon.

Plus, I will have to drive up from NYC for the day. Not sure I could afford to spend the night in a hotel.

*Thinks about it* Good lord, how much will I be spending Sean? Unless theres a major sale, I dont think I can handle the expenses. This isnt really a sport for the financially challenged, is it? lol.

you'll be selling extra relatives and unused organs soon.

[Michelle]

Just contact Sean and he can give you the details.

Sean

Startingate

Bondville, VT

802-297-1213

[zoltan]

Zoltan, I am about 155 lbs and usually ride mountains like Hunter and Windham, much smaller than those big beautiful hills you guys have out west. So its basically hard pack/corduroy in the mornings with some chop towards the end of the day, depending on if its a popular trail or not. Wierdly enough, I feel the same way about the binding angles. Because my board has like a 250mm waist, I cant afford to go that high for fear of too much underhang and not enough leverage (I think im using the term correctly). But I do feel that I would be able to shift my weight and lean more correctly if my binding angles were higher, but again it could just be my inexperience talking.

I weigh about 155 myself and am a huge fan of my SF. I bought it brand new for $550 from hardbooter.com. For boots I use the LeMans which are about right for my weight and strength and generally not-hot conditions I ride in. I've added the BTS since I'm convinced that riding in powder or walk mode is not safe. You can pick them up used for not too much, though make sure they have a full heat moldable liner. Finally, I like my F2 bindings, though my old SnowPros were ok. They say they're softer bindings, I don't know since I haven't tried all metal ones, but they work really wel for me, and again, for the crappier conditions I ride. For the record I ride worse hills than you, mostly Whitetail in PA.