When to bust out the big gun?

[Scorpio]

I know there are a bunch of riders here who frequent smaller mountains. There are also a ton of riders here who frequent crowded resorts (big or small) esp on the weekends. How many of you guys are taking out your GS sticks (longer than 170cm) during these conditions? It seems that most everyone on BOL has at least one stick longer than 170cm and ride it regularly. Is that an accurate assumption? The mantra on this forum seems to be 'longer is better' but many of us seem to ride at resorts that may be less than favorable for GS turns whether it be due to the day of the week and crowds, or just the sheer size of the mountain.

[bobdea]

you can power most boards into small turns, for the first half of the 03/04 season I had only a burner 197 with me it was a bear to turn small but the key was to be going fast enough to load up the nose, later that season I got my coiler that was a 190 and I never felt like it was too big.

for the two years prior to that I had a 184 and a 185 that I again had no problems with.

the small stuff just makes it easier in particular on ice, with the effort that you put into making a big board turn small you can make a small board rip turns the size of a comma.

[RJ-PS]

"the size of a comma"

Great quote!

[NateW]

I ride a 174 every day... it's usually the longest board I see on the hill, though all the time I spend on BOL sometimes leaves me feeling short. :)

It's the sidecut radius that makes it feel big, though. My 174 has a 13m radius, and I also have a 170 with a 10m radius that is far more turny. The difference in carveability comes from the 30% difference in sidecut, not the 2.5% difference in length.

There aren't many places where I can get enough speed and space to really dig trenches with the bigger board. In an average run there's probably 2, maybe 3 spots that are steep, smooth, wide, and uncrowded enough where I can get in 4-5 really good turns. Most of the time I'm either skidding turns off piste, or skidding turns to avoid people, or skidding to stay out of the trees, or just making mild turns because I don't have enough speed to really lean in. But I'm happy with that compromise - the times I get to really use that board are worth the times I'm forced to choose between skidding tight turns or carving big gentle boring turns.

[LeeW]

I got a 184, 172, and 176. seldomly use 'em.

[GeoffV]

My shortest board is my 170 MADD, I actually wish it had a larger sidecut it's to turny for me. I regularly ride my 182 Donek and 195. If your skilled enough you can turn the longer decks. . I use to just ride a 162 F2 SL board until I got into the longer boards I love the longer carved turns, you can't beat the feeling of laying out long carved turns on a 195, such a thrill :D :D.

[tex1230]

except for a couple of demos, I don' think I've been on a board shorter than 170 in 15 years - carving or freeride...it's all about how you throw it around...

[ARCrider]

I've got a couple of GS boards in the 180s with turning radii of 14.2m and 15.7m. Used to ride them all the time but since getting my AM172 with a 10.5m turn radius the GS sticks are seldom out anymore. Couple races a year or some wide open midweek cruising is it for my longboards now. The AM for me opens up greater mountain access and you can still rip up the wide open groomed as well as the narrow groomed where you'd have a hard time bringing a GS board around.

[Phil]

You can be as skilled as you want, but where I ride, it just would not be a good idea to always be on a longer board on some weekends. A small hill with populations from 2 large (Baltimore and D.C.), 2 small (York and Lancaster), and 1 mid size (Harrisburg) city all converging on it is not the place for GS turns. It is not that it cannot be done, it would just be smarter to ride an SL or shorter alpine board at slower speeds.

As far as I am concerned, a GS board is way more fun than a SL board, but it is not a matter of fun and performance, it is a matter of safety.

Of course, larger/less crowded hills would not be an issue.

[Speedzilla]

My F2 Speedster 186 is probably my favorite board of all time. It's a little large for our little hills with 300' vertical, and you can simply forget it if it's a crowded day. It's surprising how tight you can turn it when you really want to.

As of yesterday, my shortest board is a 173.

[Mike T]

My "big gun" Coiler PR 188 (15.7 scr) comes out when visibility is good, there is less than 2" overnite, and it's not crowded. I can turn it surprisingly tight, especially given my modest abilities as a rider, but I still get nervous on narrow trails and nervous = accidents.

Other than that I tend to carve on anything with a scr in the "freecarve" range of 10 - 13m. I too found the Madd 170 to be too turny - due more to my mass than my skill level ;) - and am really looking forward to me Donek FC 175 (11.75 scr) for non-GS days.

[nekdut]

My "big gun" Coiler PR 188 (15.7 scr) comes out when visibility is good, there is less than 2" overnite, and it's not crowded. I can turn it surprisingly tight, especially given my modest abilities as a rider, but I still get nervous on narrow trails and nervous = accidents.

Hey Mike,

What is the coiler stiffness rating on your PR188?

[carvedog]

Interesting to read how many are on longboards. I ride my Burner 197 most of the time for carving. Frontier 185 for mixed conditions and bump busting (we are not talking about fall line zipper kneed bumps here but explodabump stuff). Burner 188 for busy times. And a 173 Canyon or prime for teaching usually.

I feel right at home on this forum, wish everyone could be here for a longboard festival.

Jerry

[Mike T]

Hey Mike, What is the coiler stiffness rating on your PR188?

6.6. It's superboard construction, if that matters. It feels "just right" to me at 195 pounds in an wide varierty of conditions, soft to ice and smooth to bumpy.

[Guest Randy S.]

In Tahoe I mostly ride my 171 Freecarve on weekends. However, I often take out the 184 coiler and it is fine for 90% of the riding. My 210 is good only if there aren't too many folks on the hill. If I ride that its typically only until 10:30 or whenever the crowds show up.

[Neil Gendzwill]

6.6. It's superboard construction, if that matters. It feels "just right" to me at 195 pounds in an wide varierty of conditions, soft to ice and smooth to bumpy.

If I understand Bruce's flex system, you can only compare those numbers for the same length of board. So your 6.6 on your 188 isn't necessarily softer than the 7.7 of my AM 172.

[philfell]

I primarily only ride PGS length boards anymore, my 182 F2's work fine everywhere all the time. If I find it too crowded to ride these safely, I find it too crowded to have fun, not that the board is too big, I just don't like people all that much.

[Phil]

I have never been to a big mountain that was too crowded everywhere on the mountain to ride a big board. Most people at big mountains have a different idea of what "crowded" means compared to people at small mountains.

[Mike T]

I have never been to a big mountain that was too crowded everywhere on the mountain to ride a big board. Most people at big mountains have a different idea of what "crowded" means compared to people at small mountains.

Some big mountains don't groom a heck of a lot - so unless you like to GS off piste...

[Mike T]

If I understand Bruce's flex system, you can only compare those numbers for the same length of board. So your 6.6 on your 188 isn't necessarily softer than the 7.7 of my AM 172.

Correct. My PR 188 w/ 6.6 flex is markedly stiffer than my AM 182 w/ 7.1 flex.

[C5 Golfer]

I ride my Volkl 178 RT 95% of the time - crowded or not, big or small. Last Sunday at Crystal had a lot of people but still was able to ride fast around them. It can turn on a dime and stop like power brakes if needed. I have ridden many boards, long short medium and the Volkl 178 handles the best for me. ( I am not suggesting it is the best board out there - I am saying only that it is for me, We all have different riding styles which is why different boards and lengths work for some and not others)

[Guest jschal01]

The majority of people are going to be primarily weekend warriors plus some vacations or local night skiing, and will generally spend most of their time at resorts whose terrain can't soak up weekend crowds. I think weekend warriors (myself included) in most sports tend to overhorse themselves (again, myself included). This is true for road, XC & DH mountainbiking, most motorsports, certainly golf, and also for horses where the term "overhorse" originated,... there is no reason why snowboarding should be any different. I think the majority of alpine riders I see would be happier on a shorter, easier turning board than the board they're on. And they would acquire new skills much more easily on that shorter, easier board.

That said, I've seen some people really ripping on GS-scale boards in crowded Northeastern conditions, but they have been the minority.

[P06781]

I ride my Volkl 178 RT 95% of the time - crowded or not, big or small. Last Sunday at Crystal had a lot of people but still was able to ride fast around them. It can turn on a dime and stop like power brakes if needed. I have ridden many boards, long short medium and the Volkl 178 handles the best for me. ( I am not suggesting it is the best board out there - I am saying only that it is for me, We all have different riding styles which is why different boards and lengths work for some and not others)

+1

I love my volkl rt 178 also , They are super fun....

Jim

[AK in PA]

An Oxygen Proton 178 (14M sidecut) is the only race board I own, and pretty much all I ride. (Come to think of it, I didn't ride my freeride board at all last year.) I ride small, crowded Pennsylvania hills; Roundtop mostly, with the occassional Poconos jaunts. The 178 works great on the blue and black runs, and even on bumps and steeps. It only becomes difficult to manage on a handful of skinny runs that don't deserve a name (but it would be hard to avoid sliding your edges even on a slalom board), and on most green hills where I just can't get enough speed to make the board work. Regardless of what board I ride, the crowds are often heavy enough that I have to wait at the top of the hill until the bodies are scattered thin enough that I can avoid the hords and pick a line through the rest. I'd "like" a shorter board with a tighter sidecut for ice, and a longer board for faster runs on light days, but the 178 suits me as a good all-around board. Now it these resorts would just quick turning perfectly good groomers into friggin halfpipes and terrain parks!

[Kirk]

Hmmmm...that would be TODAY :D

Put about 13-14 runs on the 197 Burner today - no crowds, nice hard pack. COLD! It got up to 12 deg F at the top (like at 1:30-2:00 PM)

Occasional meat gate here, there - just wait some, pick a line and leave 'em behind!

Got the usual stares (esp. w/that board) and some funny comments...

Uni-ski, Monoboard, why is it split/cracked in the tail? etc.

Brought the free-ride (164) and the Madd (170) - they never saw snow. Was just havin' toooo much fun haulin' cookies and makin' BIG turns.