Intec... to step in or not?

[John K]

After 3 years of running intec heals and bomber bindings with no problems, I am concerned after a local rider is still dealing with a major leg injury due to a snapped pin and subsequent release of his front foot. I know this is not a new topic here.... but.....

Does anyone know of improvements coming out for the heal piece?

Is there enough reason to switch to bails or at least run my front foot with standard bindings?

Any other thoughts on the topic would be appreciated !

Thanks

John

[Guest Randy S.]

John,

I'm also thinking of switching to bails on my front foot.

FWIW, Joel's accident had nothing to do with the Bomber bindings, but everything to do with the Intec heel that is built by F2. Yes, all our heels are made by the same company, regardless of where you bought them. It does give me pause that all my weight is being held in by a metal pin surrounded by plastic. The metal pin isn't likely to fail, but it doesn't seem too hard to tear plastic apart. The step-in design seems like a decent one, but perhaps the materials need updating. Joel was riding on heels that were brand new when his accident happened. It can't be blamed on fatigued material. It is either a design flaw or some mistake in manufacturing (I don't know which).

Something to think about.

[Dan]

Whoah, scary stuff. I'm riding standard bails not so much because I'd considered the risks of untimely release (insert joke here), but for cost reasons. Still, is any amount of convenience worth the risk of spontaneous binding release? I'm willing to take the extra 30 seconds or so per run to snap into my standard bails.

[Jon Dahl]

I've not had any probs with either Intec or Fast heels, but I have had toe bail release on Bomber's I was demoing @ SES and Burton's I had. Using Fast heels in the backcountry, and TD2 Intec resort.

[astrokel]

Hmmm...

Aren't the forces on the heel more exagerated on the rear foot than on the front? If so would running a non-Intec setup on the front foot and an Intec setup on the rear really be addressing a safety issue? It seems if one is worried about this issue either copious maintenance of the Intec heels or going 100% to a standard bail system would be a better solution. Thoughts?

[skategoat]

I've had Intec's fail (broken heel pin) and I've come out of standard bails. Last season, my buddy Rob snapped a bail on his standard Bomber TD2s. Knocking on wood, I was not injured in any of my spontaneous releases and neither was Rob. It can be argued back and forth a million times as to which is safer.

The best thing you can do is regular inspection and replacement of critical parts. With the Intec heels, I say throw them out and buy new ones every couple of seasons. For the standard bails, I'm not so sure. Rob's failure would've been pretty hard to predict. My failures were (I think) due to snow buildup in the heel and not engaging the bail properly.

It's more a convenience and stiffness issue. I went from Intecs to standard to gain a softer ride. Now I'm thinking of going back to Intecs because of the convenience.

If anyone wants to swap for either of my mint condition standard Cateks, let me know. I have one long and one short pair (my 27.5 boots fit either).

Henry

[utahcarver]

I have gone to Intecs on my (both front and rear) TD2's, was due to a shoulder injury last season from a rear boot release on standard bails. BTW, it was a heelside turn and I was pressuring the toe upward and leveraging my knee forward (rear boot) prior to the failure. My guess is that the twisting pressure I was putting on my Raichle-clad rear foot is what INITIATED the failure.

My perspective is one of the boot being highly pressured and being the direct cause of the failure in the interface. I have ridden the same Raichle 123 in Burton Race plates and had them fail with considerably less consequences. I see little to no problem at this point with the bail system. It works fine with most boots except Raichles in a twisting upward toe release, IMHO. Solution: ditch the standard bail system, buy TD2SI technology, Intec heels, Raichle 413's (it's what I could afford this year and it accepts Intec). Perhaps, I should have gone with UPZ or Head boots. I rode the 413s at WTC '04 at Snowbasin with TD2SI's and never doubted the system.

Now because of this thread, I'm wondering if I should us a standard bail on my front binder.

Hoping for a surgery-free season this year!

Mark

[Jack M]

I have come out of Burton Race Plates due to catastrophic failure, and TD1 standards due to improper sizing on my part, and also when my custom canting devices fell out (nickels, pennies, again my fault). The only times I've ever come out of my Intecs in 3 years is when they weren't fully engaged due to wet/sticky snow buildup.

[Gecko]

my two yen (since pennies aren't used on base in Japan) is that the material is the weak point...metal or plastic...which to you trust your life with...I trust metal and simplicity over plastic and speed of entry...I contemplated Stepin's last year, my first boarding with my wife on ski's, however we soon developed a system that sped up the process and when she learns to board this year I don't want to be any faster than her at the top of the hill or I will engender ill will.

[kamran]

I trust metal and simplicity over plastic and speed of entry

It's that simple!

[NateW]

Six of one, half-dozen of the other...

I was never able to get bail TDs to stay on reliably, no matter how I set them up. Far as I can tell, the failures all involved lots of twisting force (think pronation/supination) rotating the heel ledge out from under the bail. It always happened when landing jumps - undershooting/overshooting tabletops.

So I switched to TD SIs and have been much happier. I did break a pin once, and it was on a brand-new set of heels. My other heels have put up with plenty of abuse. The only Intec failures I know of (just 3 - not statistically significant) have been broken pins with new heels. My guess is there's a manufacturing problem... if they're built right they last forever, but if they're built wrong (maybe a void in the metal?) they fail on day one. Replacing them every two seasons sounds like the wrong approach.

So Fin, when are you going to start making aluminum heel blocks with titanium pins? :)

Heck, I'd buy a couple sets of pin upgrades if anyone would sell 'em to me.

[Fleaman]

I was thinking about the metal vs plastic debate and I think that most boots are made of plastic around the toe wherer the bail attaches to the boot. It is a bit thicker than the plastic around Intec heels but In my opinion, it must be as strong. I just picked up a pair of intec step-ins also and with all this discussion, I am a bit leery now. I bought the intec system to replace my FAST bindings because I wore out the heels after about 20 days of riding. I kept poping out of my bindings all the time. I attribute it to my weight (240lbs)

Are there any other bigger riders that have had success with the Intec System?

[Gecko]

I was thinking about the metal vs plastic debate and I think that most boots are made of plastic around the toe wherer the bail attaches to the boot. It is a bit thicker than the plastic around Intec heels but In my opinion, it must be as strong. I just picked up a pair of intec step-ins also and with all this discussion, I am a bit leery now. I bought the intec system to replace my FAST bindings because I wore out the heels after about 20 days of riding. I kept poping out of my bindings all the time. I attribute it to my weight (240lbs)

Are there any other bigger riders that have had success with the Intec System?

Isn't JJ Anderson is a pretty big guy and he uses them.

This discussion reminds me of why after 15 years of dedicated use of Canon camera's I switched to Nikon...Nikon uses metal for precision parts Canon plastic. I sold every Canon camera and lens I had at a considerable loss because my faith in the product was gone. Mind you I make my living as a US Navy photographer so this shouldn't be though of as too extream; I need to have trust in the equipment I use on a daily basis, I don't trust my livelyhood or my life to Plastic

[Guest Randy S.]

I kept poping out of my bindings all the time. I attribute it to my weight (240lbs)

Are there any other bigger riders that have had success with the Intec System?

I've been using Intec for the past few seasons with success. I weigh almost 200lbs and I'm 5'10". The guy who had the horrible crash after his pin/heel failed is a bit bigger than me and also rides fairly aggressively.

So Fin, when are you going to start making aluminum heel blocks with titanium pins?

Amen. You can use the e-ring material to make the tread.

The only times I've ever come out of my Intecs in 3 years is when they weren't fully engaged due to wet/sticky snow buildup.

Same Here. But Joel's experience, plus NateW's report:

I did break a pin once, and it was on a brand-new set of heels. My other heels have put up with plenty of abuse. The only Intec failures I know of (just 3 - not statistically significant) have been broken pins with new heels. My guess is there's a manufacturing problem... if they're built right they last forever, but if they're built wrong (maybe a void in the metal?) they fail on day one.

really give me pause.

With any luck, the lawsuit surrounding Joel's situation will cause F2 to redesign the heel and solve the problem.

[Chris Houghton]

Trying to use regular front and step in rear poses a different issue - the flex is quite different between the two setups, and unless you have fairly soft boots it is really noticeable. Not saying that you couldn't get used to it, I guess humans can get used to anything, the question is should you have to?

In my opinion step ins are great, except when they are subjected to unusual or extreme forces (maybe not considered in the original design) that could cause them to fail through exceeding the yeild strength of the (plastic)material. Aluminum heels may just move the force into the boot, and people would start pulling the inserts out of the heel.

I'm not taking the chance, I'll stick with the standard bails.

[Guest]

Gecko, Jasey is only about 175 lbs. Just in case you were wondering.

[Erwin]

A few months ago, I have broken the Intec heel part of my back foot. The plastic below the pin had broken off and I could pull my foot out of the binding without opening it. When I noticed something was wrong I stopped boarding and decided to walk - luckily nothing happened to me. The Intec heel parts were replaced by F2 of course.

They should indeed do something about the construction and materials they use. Today many bindings are made from metal, but we still rely on such a tiny piece of plastic...

As far as normal bail bindings are concerned: they destroyed my Deeluxe Indy's. The plastic part which the heel bail fits around started to rupture...

Erwin

[Mr.E]

I doubt there is any way of figuring this out, but it would be interesting to see the numbers (% of units) that fail. I've seen heel ledges rip off and broken intec heels. It seems to me as if ledges are a slower, tearing failure vs. the blowing up of the intec part. I don't use em because I like to be able to swap all my boots and parts, and I had a few epic attempts at trying to "step in" in wet cascade cement. I'm done with FAST or Intec untill I move to the east coast (not likely now that I'm in Utah ). I ride intec heels in bails. Stiff heel, reliable interface (in my experience).

[Guest Tim Tuthill]

I had a conversation about this problem with Doug Dryer last year. He told me that he got new heels every year. He may of said he changes twice a year? This deals with the wear factor he said. It is a hell of allot cheaper than going to the hospital.

[bschurman]

-- rant on --

If you aren't willing to accept that what you do does have risks then don't do it. Like anything in life you try to mitigate risks but most times you can not. I hate this newfound modern idea that nothing is anyones fault. It must be someone else. I'll sue those bastards!

-- rant off --

Would you try carbon fiber? It's plastic! Many, many bikes and components are made from this and it holds up well. Also there are plastics out there that are stronger then steel so I think that plastic is getting a bad rap here.

Also, the Intec heals need to be setup properly. Your weight should never be resting solely on the pins. If they are too easy to get in, then they are not setup properly. The "wing" on the front of the heel should be resting on the ramp on the binding and help distribute your weight along with the pin. There should be 0 movement once your heel is engaged in the receiver. The micro adjusment on the TDs is paramount for setting this tension. I bet there is a lot of poor setup that is causing some of these failures.

BTW, I have popped out of both standard and Intec heels but the former was becuase of poor setup and the later becuase of snow buildup and engagement of only one pin.

->Ben

[SWriverstone]

After reading (seemingly) hundreds of posts on this issue, I'm just as flummoxed as I was at the start! There seem to be one or more accounts of the following...

- lightweight bail users coming out front

- lightweight bail users coming out rear

- heavyweight bail users coming out front

- heavyweight bail users coming out rear

- lightweight Intec users coming out front

- lightweight Intec users coming out rear

- heavyweight Intec users coming out front

- heavyweight Intec users coming out rear

Seriously, there doesn't seem to be any conclusive evidence that one system is "better" or "worse" than the other. My conclusion? Your mileage may vary!

For what it's worth, I'm a big guy (225lbs) and I never had a problem with my F2 bail bindings in 50+ outings last season. (Granted, I'm new to carving and may not be torquing the bindings as much yet.)

I have to say also that I've always thought it absurd people seem to think non-step-in bail bindings are "too much work." WTF? Is it really that painful to bend over and flip the bail? (Maybe if you have back issues...) I remember many times when I'd be clipped in and gone while Intec folks were still futzing with their pins, pull cables, etc.

My point is, all things being equal, I'd think the simpler the system, the better! :)

Scott

[Neil Gendzwill]

I find the step-ins super handy when negotiating long flats. Run out of steam, just step out and skate a while. Starts going downhill again, step back in. No worry about the toe clip dragging, don't have to lose momentum as you stop to clip in, very slick.

I've broken an Intec heel but that was simply my own fault, the bolts got loose and I hadn't checked them regularily. I do now. The plastic part of the interface is the weak part whether you have the Intecs or not. With regular bails, you get the problem of boot distortion under the load of the clip and variations in that with temperature and so forth.

[bobdea]

is the only bail binding I have ridden alot and and not been ejected from more than once.

I have torn the hell out of heel ledges and bent bails in standard bindings.

I have broken one intec heel and never been ejected other than on my first turn and those times had I of checked to see if the pins were in the holes this would not have happened, to see this is much easier on the TD2 too!

From experience intec is the much much safer route for me, I would love to see heels that take care of some of the issues that we do have with them but still I find them far more reliable than bails.

I have never broken a pin just the little plastic "ear" and given three years of use this was not incredibly surprising.

I am like 260 lbs and untill last year rode at least a few runs every day and on my days off a full day so I think that as other have said your milage will vary

[Gecko]

Gecko, Jasey is only about 175 lbs. Just in case you were wondering.

I always thought he was bigger :o

[kamran]

I had a couple of minor accidents when driving a car in the past and nothing bad happened to me. Therefore, driving a car and getting into an accident will never be fatal to me.

I rest my case.