Neil Gendzwill Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 If you come from a soft boot background you may be leery of step ins but the Intec system works perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 (edited) Step-ins are a bit stiffer side to side. They don't work with Mountain Slope or alpine touring boots. Speaking of AT, we forgot to mention them as a viable option. Honestly, I would start with used boots, until you figured out the best fit/performance, for you. Edited October 19, 2023 by BlueB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhamann Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 F2 race titaniums will provide some lateral movement which is very much inviting for a softbooter transitioning to alpine. step ins or TD3 standards may dissuade from an enjoyable experience for such riding. good choice, but they'll still be worlds apart from any stiffened up Frankenstein softboot setup. support and forces while carving will be transferred to more of the leg/hip and less on the ankle/toes/feet/back. style and technique is a whole other topic. gear first. the new pair of F2's should come with one thicker stack block, so ordering one other set of cants/blocks/wedges is super advise from above. BTS for the boots (soft/soft or soft/medium springs). solid setup. turner mild would be almost a forever in the quiver board. no brainer to me, but talk with Sean about what's right for you. head on a swivel. good luck and enjoy the G's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said: If you come from a soft boot background you may be leery of step ins but the Intec system works perfectly. Except around 32F/0C when they clog with ice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 33 minutes ago, Jack M said: Except around 32F/0C when they clog with ice. That’s your fault for riding somewhere that warm Somehow never a problem for me. Seriously if I get a buildup I can clear it pretty easy by scraping on the receiver. Same problem with conventional bindings, isn’t it? Just a little more forgiving but eventually you have to clean your boot sole. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 42 minutes ago, Neil Gendzwill said: That’s your fault for riding somewhere that warm Somehow never a problem for me. Seriously if I get a buildup I can clear it pretty easy by scraping on the receiver. Same problem with conventional bindings, isn’t it? Just a little more forgiving but eventually you have to clean your boot sole. Haha, Spring doesn't happen there? It's much less of an issue with my Mountain Slopes' Vibram soles than it was with Fintec's aluminum/plastic. In fact I can't recall being bothered by it at all. It really bugged me with Fintecs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fathermathew Posted October 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 15 hours ago, dredman said: I agree with @Jack M get the extra F2 toe/ heel lift. https://www.donek.com/product/f2-heeltoe-lift-large/ (make sure you get right size for bindings) The Step-in bindings are super easy, quick and reliable. Be sure to also get the heels with them. https://www.donek.com/product/intec-heel-kit/ You will have a great setup! You may want to consider a board closer to a 10m SCR for starting out. It will turn at a slower speed and inspire some confidence. If you want to meet a bunch of carvers and take a bunch of clinics, check out the Montucky Clear CUT www.montuckyclearcut.com Thank you so much. What is an intec heel kit? I am assuming its what you use to release yourself from the binding? Also what does 10m scr mean? Sorry for the dumb questions... 16 hours ago, Jack M said: That will be a great setup to start. Be sure to get an extra “lift kit” with those bindings so you can have both heel lift on the back foot and toe lift on the front foot. Remove the inward cant shims from the bindings to get started. Thanks so much. I don't know what is "a must" but these lift kits you are saying must be really important for being able to carve better? I don't remember any lift kits when I used to snowboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fathermathew Posted October 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 11 hours ago, SunSurfer said: Step ins are great for older backs that find bending over and touching your toes difficult. I fit that description and my back wouldn't survive a day riding trying to use standard toe bail bindings. I have never used step ins for any snowboarding in the past. I just found the few times I did do alpine boarding, getting the boot into the binding was way harder because of the angle of the bindings. So step ins does sound really easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 14 minutes ago, Fathermathew said: Thank you so much. What is an intec heel kit? I am assuming its what you use to release yourself from the binding? Also what does 10m scr mean? Sorry for the dumb questions... Intec heels are what you need if you want to use Intec compatible step-in bindings. F2 and Bomber make such bindings and heels. The heels replace the stock heels in Intec compatible boots like Deeluxe and UPZ. Mountain Slope boots are not Intec compatible. SCR = sidecut radius, in meters. Smaller number = tighter turns. 14 minutes ago, Fathermathew said: Thanks so much. I don't know what is "a must" but these lift kits you are saying must be really important for being able to carve better? I don't remember any lift kits when I used to snowboard. They are a must. F2 includes one lift kit with their bindings because back in the 80s and 90s people thought you only needed to lift the heel of the rear boot. The more modern approach is using a lift under the toe of your front boot as well. F2 probably enjoys the little extra revenue from people buying the additional lift. It's simply more comfortable for most people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 3 hours ago, Jack M said: Haha, Spring doesn't happen there? It's much less of an issue with my Mountain Slopes' Vibram soles than it was with Fintec's aluminum/plastic. In fact I can't recall being bothered by it at all. It really bugged me with Fintecs. I don't usually get out in spring but even when I do I don't have an issue. But yeah, I've heard enough about the Fintecs to know I don't want them. I've always just used the stock Intec heels for Raichle/Deeluxe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.free Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 7 hours ago, Jack M said: They are a must. F2 includes one lift kit with their bindings because back in the 80s and 90s people thought you only needed to lift the heel of the rear boot. The more modern approach is using a lift under the toe of your front boot as well. F2 probably enjoys the little extra revenue from people buying the additional lift. It's simply more comfortable for most people. I don’t get it, why it is a must?! In 10 years, I have never used a heel lift in any boots, neither in deeluxes, upzs nor mountain slopes. Not in 15cm boards or 25+ boards. I highly recommend not to use any lifts before you try riding your board. And if! you feel you need to lift your boot then do a lift. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 @Fathermathew In the beginning of this thread boots were emphasized. Let me reemphasize them as the foundation of your setup. "Popular" doesn't necessarily mean they fit your foot shape. Deeluxe fit some feet UPZ others and Mountain Slope others. In my thinking Mountailn Slope will fit the most people, UPZ a little less and Deeluxe the least. There are vocal advocates of each type but really it comes down to individual fit - your feet are yours. Pay less attention to boot features. Jack outlined the fit characteristics of each earlier in the thread. Bindings, intec, BTS, lift, SCR etc are very important but secondary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 17 minutes ago, b.free said: I don’t get it, why it is a must?! In 10 years, I have never used a heel lift in any boots, neither in deeluxes, upzs nor mountain slopes. Not in 15cm boards or 25+ boards. I highly recommend not to use any lifts before you try riding your board. And if! you feel you need to lift your boot then do a lift. If you’ve never used them how can you have an opinion on them? And, they are added to the bindings, not “in” the boots . 32 years in hardboots here. Damn I’m old! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) I also vote for the toe/heel lifts - I can't ride without unless my angles are below 30°. F2 typically comes with one chunky lift and 4 canting shims. Those 4 can be stacked in opposing directions to cancel the cant and work as pure lift. That might be enough for the front toe. The single chunky one is enough for the back heel, for many people. Then, some people riding the UPZ, say they need more front toe lift, than rear heel lift, due to steep internal ramp of UPZs. But, there is no way to know what would feel good for you, before you set the board and do some "carpet carving". Edited October 20, 2023 by BlueB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.free Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Jack M said: If you’ve never used them how can you have an opinion on them? And, they are added to the bindings, not “in” the boots . 32 years in hardboots here. Damn I’m old! Jack, read again. I have not told my opinion, I just said I don’t get it why it is a must. Ps, you add a heel lift to the bindings to heel lift your boot right? Isn’t it a point of using a lift? Edited October 20, 2023 by b.free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 4 hours ago, BlueB said: ... F2 typically comes with one chunky lift and 4 canting shims. Those 4 can be stacked in opposing directions to cancel the cant and work as pure lift. That might be enough for the front toe. The single chunky one is enough for the back heel, for many people. ... I'm not sure any of this will help the OP, but in Europe F2 lifts will set 1° toe and 3° heel lift out of the box. Obviously other combinations also work and the shims are easily available for those without a bag of old ones. I've never needed more, and you may want to think about your bolt lengths if you want more. I used to ride flat; for me it depends on the boots for what I think are fairly obvious reasons. I'd not recommend step-ins for a novice myself as they're more complex, more expensive, they limit your options, and don't really deliver much which matters. Less is more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 12 hours ago, Fathermathew said: I have never used step ins for any snowboarding in the past. I just found the few times I did do alpine boarding, getting the boot into the binding was way harder because of the angle of the bindings. So step ins does sound really easy. That's something you get used to pretty quick. It feels weird at first just because your soft-boot brain already has established routines. Unlike softboots, I always found it easier getting hardboots locked-in with the frontside edge being upslope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimW Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 Using heel / toe lift, or not, is also boot related. If you use Deeluxe boots with the standard selector you can just set the cuff more upright on the front boot and with more forward lean on the rear boot (or ride in walk mode). Worked perfectly fine for me. Now in UPZ boots I added toe and heel lift, because I did not want my feet to be locked in different positions all day. Heel lift need also depend on how flexible your calves are. Especially in smaller sizes, the UPZ boots themselves lift your heel a lot, so you want toe lift to offset that. For F2 bail bindings you can use two cant shims, stacked in alternate direction, to create a 50% heel /toe lift. Not recommended on Intecs because it messes up the alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 12 hours ago, b.free said: Jack, read again. I have not told my opinion, I just said I don’t get it why it is a must. Ps, you add a heel lift to the bindings to heel lift your boot right? Isn’t it a point of using a lift? @Fathermathew, sorry your thread is experiencing thread drift. But as Neil succinctly pointed out once, it's a discussion forum, we discuss things. @b.free, It is simply more comfortable for most people to use a lift under their front foot toe and one under the rear foot heel. Mechanically, it makes sense for a wider stance with binding angles north of 50 degrees. "Wider" being the modern stance of about 0.65" x inseam. Not the 16-18" stances from the 90s I see some people clinging to. It gives you better range of motion, joint freedom, power, stability, and allows you to relax more. Give it a whirl. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 Guess I’m a dinosaur with my 19.5” stance, about 1” shorter than recommended by Jack’s formula. I ride with the standard F2 lift under the rear heel, never felt the need for toe lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, Neil Gendzwill said: Guess I’m a dinosaur with my 19.5” stance, about 1” shorter than recommended by Jack’s formula. I ride with the standard F2 lift under the rear heel, never felt the need for toe lift. You should be able to try 20.5" with a toe lift, and it should be just as comfortable but with more power and stability in your riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dredman Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 39 minutes ago, Jack M said: You should be able to try 20.5" with a toe lift, and it should be just as comfortable but with more power and stability in your riding. Agreed! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.free Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Jack M said: You should be able to try 20.5" with a toe lift, and it should be just as comfortable but with more power and stability in your riding. I wonder, how tall Neil is?! As I am 6.5 (195cm) and I also ride 20.5” (52cm) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 39 minutes ago, b.free said: I wonder, how tall Neil is?! As I am 6.5 (195cm) and I also ride 20.5” (52cm) Oh yeah, way too narrow! I’m 5’11”, usually ride 21”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 16 minutes ago, Jack M said: Oh yeah, way too narrow! I’m 5’11”, usually ride 21”. What's your inseam (pants) length? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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