Experienced snowboarder wanting to transition to alpine snowboard- Board/Boots/Binds help

[Fathermathew]

Hello,

My name is Matt.  Experienced freestyler when I was 18 to now my body can't do that but still want to snowboard (40 now).

I have alpine boarded using my friends gear several times.  Love it.

I have no idea what gear I should buy and where from.

I am 185lbs, 5'10" and wear size 10.

Please tell me where and what board/bindings/boots I should get.

Thanks so much.

[dredman]

PM sent

[leeho730]

Donek.com sells beginner Voyager or Turner FC Mild snowboards, F2 Titanium binding, Deeluxe 325 or 700 boots. Up to $250 discount if you purchase boots and boards together. I started with 700 but now uses 325 because of better fit.
 

You may also want to use spring system such as BTS (https://www.bomberonline.com/BTS-Kit_p_106.html) on your boots if you want to be comfortable rather than feeling like you are wearing a plaster.

[Aracan]

If you ask me (and many others on this board), the boots are most important. If they don't fit, the most beginner-friendly board and the flexiest bindings are not going to help you. This is a problem because there are hardly any shops were you can try the different models.

The good news there are only four different shell shapes: Deeluxe symmetrical (325), Deeluxe asymmetrical (700), UPZ and Mountainslope, the last of which are rather expensive for a beginner. In my experience (others might disagree), the 325 has the widest heel and narrowest toebox, the UPZ is the other way round, the 700 is more or less between them.

Before you pull the trigger on a new pair of boots in which you may or may not suffer like hell, I suggest you buy secondhand and see how you like the shell shape. Liners can be tweaked much more easily.

Don't forget to do the shell test to ensure proper sizing: Remove the liner, step into the shell so that your toes touch the front inside. You should be able to fit 1-2 fingers behind your heel. Less is too ambitious, more is too loose.

You can play around with spring systems later on. I wouldn't recommend the BTS. It was an excellent idea in its day, but there are better systems around now.

[philw]

14 hours ago, Fathermathew said:

... Please tell me where and what board/bindings/boots I should get. ..

Using your friends' gear sounds like the right approach to me. If you've done that, then you can probably work out what sort of "Alpine" you want to do. There is more variety in the ways you can carve a turn than the ways you can ride a rail... my advice would be to avoid any of the extremes until you know what you want and why.




 

[BlueB]

Welcome! 

Measure your feet in cm, for proper sizing. The "size 10" can be deceiving for hard boots. 

Other than that, used gear is the way to go, in the beginning. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by BlueB

[st_lupo]

2 hours ago, BlueB said:

Welcome! 

Measure your feet in cm, for proper sizing. The "size 10" can be deceiving for hard boots. 

Other than that, used gear is the way to go, in the beginning. 

Might just add that if you get used bindings, make sure you check over them (especially the bails and any t-nuts) really well.  Bindings are consumables (more or less, depending on the make).

[lamby]

Good advice all around. st-lupo's tips are worth following for sure. Used bindings are suspect, particularly the bails, which should be replaced after they are used for a season or so (depending on how many days/hours of riding you do). After many flexes, the bails will break.

If you buy a used board with a four hole binding pattern, these are a good starter binding.

https://www.donek.com/product/f2-carve-rs/

If you get a three hole pattern used board, you could get these:

https://www.carversparadise.com/en_US/products-list/category/snowboard-plate-bindings-onlineshop/speed-cc-ibex

I have had good success purchasing from carversparadise from my U.S. address.

You could purchase used burton style/Ibex type bindings, but you should not use them with the used bails they come with. Instead, discard the used bails, and replace them with new bails.

https://www.carversparadise.com/en_US/products/speed-cc-front-bail

https://www.carversparadise.com/en_US/products/speed-cc-rear-bail

Installing the replacement bails can be difficult and a bit frustrating at first. Takes a little patience and persistence to install them.

Good riding!

 

 

 

[BlueB]

In 20 years of riding, I have broken a bail once. The bindings were with old (thinner) F2 bails and bought from a racer, so abused already. 

[SunSurfer]

@Fathermathew What are the boots, bindings and board(s) that you have been riding? What have you thought was good or bad about that setup?

The answers may help people here advise you on what may best suit.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Obviously the real question you haven’t answered is budget. What’s the absolute most you’re willing to spend to buy board, bindings and boots? That’s the real question here (keeping in mind that alpine equipment is significantly more expensive than regular snowboard gear).

[Jonny]

Boots are critical, and they differ greatly from soft-boots. For one thing, any good ski-boot tech can modify them IF you start with the right size, which means smaller than you'd think. If you're a normal size 10 the absolute biggest hard boot shell you can consider is probably a 26. The general  brand attributes Aracan delineated aren't inaccurate but equally important is where the ankle hinges. A very wide foot like mine can love a boot which started with a narrow forefoot but nothing will make a too-large shell usable.

In choosing a board, consider where you'll ride it most. If on smaller, narrow hills, and predominantly hard snow, you'll look for something slalom-oriented - short sidecut radius under about 13 (and as short as 9m like a soft boot board), and shorter length around 165 or less. IF you'll be on bigger hills, and on softer snow, you can go longer and especially wider. At your boot size you don't need to look at anything wider than 20cm unless you expect to be riding a lot of powder.

The Classified section here is a great resource. You can always ask in Carving Central about a potential purchase, but such is the nature of the stoke around here that most sellers will give you a very unbiased view on their own offerings' suitability. I don't think you need to look for a particularly beginner-oriented rig, given your previous experience with softies.

[Aracan]

10 hours ago, BlueB said:

In 20 years of riding, I have broken a bail once. The bindings were with old (thinner) F2 bails and bought from a racer, so abused already. 

I broke a more recent, thick F2 bail two seasons ago. It had been used by my skinny self (about 165 lbs in socks) for four or five seasons at that point, and I never get more than 30 days per season, if that. So you may have been lucky, but bails do break occasionally.

[BlueB]

2 hours ago, Jonny said:

If you're a normal size 10 the absolute biggest hard boot shell you can consider is probably a 26.

^ Right there is the demonstration why you need to measure your feet. Most of the conversion charts would give you the 28 for US 10, but most people that wear "street" 10 are actually 9 or less, with a tight fitting shoe. Those numbers vary from one brand to another, too. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by BlueB

[Jack M]

12 hours ago, lamby said:

If you buy a used board with a four hole binding pattern, these are a good starter binding.

https://www.donek.com/product/f2-carve-rs/

I think these are too flexy and weak for a 185lb rider.

@Fathermathew welcome!  Boots are sized in Mondopoint, which is just the length of your foot in centimeters.  Deeluxe Track 700 are infamous for bad heel lift unless you have a meaty high volume foot and ankle.  I believe Deeluxe Track 325 are lower volume and narrower.  They have softer flex than the 700.  Every Deeluxe boot needs an aftermarket spring system like Bomber BTS, which I still recommend.  UPZ boots are lower volume with excellent heel hold, but if your foot is on the wider side you will be unbuckling every run.  Mountain Slope standard flex would be a good starting point for average to wider feet.  Also excellent heel hold and more roomy in the forefoot than UPZ.

Donek freecarve boards are great and a great value if you want to buy new.  I'd recommend something 170-175cm with a 20cm waist and around a 12m radius.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

[st_lupo]

On 10/11/2023 at 4:25 PM, Jack M said:

Donek freecarve boards are great and a great value if you want to buy new.  I'd recommend something 170-175cm with a 20cm waist and around a 12m radius.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Solid numbers for a first board.  Smaller SL boards can be a handful at first, and big boards with huge radius edges will have you whimpering from the back seat if you aren’t ‘on it’.

 

[Bobby Buggs]

I have a 168 Coiler All mountain VSR I may part with. Extremely versatile and not demanding on the rider at all.  A do it all board for sure. 

We are pretty much the same dimensions so this board would suit you well

Edited October 14, 2023 by Bobby Buggs

[BlueB]

^ Go for it!

I have a 165 version of this, with XT cut, built a bit lighter than my weight, it's super easy to ride, with great grip. Really nice for a first carving board. 

[Odd Job]

The shittiest current-ish board will be miles ahead of any old antique that has a weird cult following.

My larger foot measure 25.6cm. I wear US 8/8.5 4E/6E width, a blob.

By the numbers alone you can say I belong in MP25, I wear MP24. I think I have enough room to downsize to MP23 with boot-work. The tighter the boot tolerance, the less you will be susceptible to the liners packing out, hence I always say 1 finger or less for shell fit. 2 fingers is too roomy.

[Jack M]

It all depends on the boot, and your foot.  Everyone has different boot fit stories.  My larger foot measures 28.4cm and I am in a Mountain Slope "C" shell which tops out at 28.0.  I know I could not go to the B shell which is max 26.5, as my big toe is already feeling the shell through my thin liners.  In UPZs I was in the 28-28.5 shell (312mm sole).  No way I could have downsized there either.  Back when I rode Deeluxe Track 700s, I was in 28.5s.  I tried to downsize to 27.5 and the performance was much better, heel lift was gone, however the Intec cable inside the boot was a dealbreaker.  It painfully pressed into my heel.  So I would say if you don't care about using Intec step-ins, a good fit can be found in Deeluxe T700s, but it should be more towards a "race fit", not a "comfort fit".

[SunSurfer]

7 hours ago, Jack M said:

 .... I tried to downsize to 27.5 and the performance was much better, heel lift was gone, however the Intec cable inside the boot was a dealbreaker.  It painfully pressed into my heel.... 

Intec cable commonly routed on the outside of the heel, but can be routed either side. Having had the same problem @Jack M describes, I now route mine on the inside of my heel, and have no pain from them. Others on the board have done the same thing for the same issue and been similarly fixed.

Edited October 17, 2023 by SunSurfer

[Fathermathew]

Sorry for the late follow-up response, life has been so busy.  First, what an awesome community that so many people are willing to offer their help.  I have spent the past few hours looking at all the different boots, bindings, and boards you recommended and found these to be the most recommended.

Deeluxe Track 325 Mondo 27/28 (Someone here liked the 325 vs the 700) $559

https://www.donek.com/product/deeluxe-track-325-black-white/

F2 Titanium Binding (Not sure whether to get the normal one or the step-in one) $289

https://www.donek.com/product/f2-intec-titanium/

Donek's Voyager or Turner Board $915 (170-175cm with a 20cm waist and around a 12m radius)

https://www.donek.com/hardboot-snowboards/

[Jack M]

That will be a great setup to start. Be sure to get an extra “lift kit” with those bindings so you can have both heel lift on the back foot and toe lift on the front foot. Remove the inward cant shims from the bindings to get started.

[dredman]

I agree with @Jack M get the extra F2 toe/ heel lift.  https://www.donek.com/product/f2-heeltoe-lift-large/ (make sure you get right size for bindings)
 

The Step-in bindings are super easy, quick and reliable. Be sure to also get the heels with them. 
https://www.donek.com/product/intec-heel-kit/

You will have a great setup! You may want to consider a board closer to a 10m SCR for starting out.  It will turn at a slower speed and inspire some confidence.  
 

If you want to meet a bunch of carvers and take a bunch of clinics, check out the Montucky Clear CUT www.montuckyclearcut.com

[SunSurfer]

Step ins are great for older backs that find bending over and touching your toes difficult. I fit that description and my back wouldn't survive a day riding trying to use standard toe bail bindings.