UPZ sizing help

[teach]

Do you think it's your heel bone hitting the upper part of the heel pocket? Deeluxe don't have much heel pocket, so that might be why you didn't have that issue with your old boots.

The thermo liners probably have foam below the foot (unlike the Flo). That may cause your heel to be too high to fit the heel pocket. Just a thought.

Are your heels pinched by the boots on the sides?

Or is it the other extreme, heels lifting in the boot? 

If neither, then you're lucky and maybe just need a liner that has a thin sole and plenty of forefoot thickness. Some of the newer Intuition fit the bill, like the Pro Tongue (I think there's a higher volume version). Or Zipfit, where you can add goo in the forefoot area to get the fit you're looking for. The Flo does too, but to my knowledge can't be puffed up in areas you choose.

If your heels are lifting in the boot, the best solution is to go to the next smaller shell (given the extra room you currently have). There are hacks, but best to do it right.

If the UPZ heel is actually too narrow for you, well then... Harder problem. But it doesn't sound like that's it.

With the thin-soled liner, a thin footbed would be a good idea as well, so as not to raise your heel up too much. You didn't mention what you use for footbeds.

 

[Beckmann AG]

10 hours ago, Billb said:

The heel pain is the direct back of my heel and it is much less painful in the stock liners .

Rear foot?

You may be over flexing your ankle and/or the boot. Could be your stance is too wide, too much or too little heel lift on that binding, or you're trying to drive the board in a less than optimal manner. Ideally you'll pressure the board with the soles of your feet, not your shins.

 

Or it could be something else.

1 hour ago, teach said:

Or Zipfit, where you can add goo in the forefoot area to get the fit you're looking for.

 The Zipfits I've seen have provision to add material to the ankle pockets (medial/lateral) and over the instep. 

Not too sure about the forefoot? Might be a newer model liner?

[teach]

Oh, not sure. My girlfriend used them but adding goo was never necessary so we never explored those roads-rarely-travelled.

[lonbordin]

1 hour ago, Beckmann AG said:

Rear foot?

You may be over flexing your ankle and/or the boot. Could be your stance is too wide, too much or too little heel lift on that binding, or you're trying to drive the board in a less than optimal manner. Ideally you'll pressure the board with the soles of your feet, not your shins.

 

Or it could be something else.

 The Zipfits I've seen have provision to add material to the ankle pockets (medial/lateral) and over the instep. 

Not too sure about the forefoot? Might be a newer model liner?

I'll be that guy, sorry @teach

There are no zipfits that allow material to be added to the forefoot area.

[bigwavedave]

15 hours ago, lonbordin said:

I'll be that guy, sorry @teach

There are no zipfits that allow material to be added to the forefoot area.

 

[Mr Wonton]

I’ve been boarding for 34 years but this is going g to be my first season with hard boots. I’m going to order a Thirst board and some f2 bindings. I’m leaning toward UPZ boots. My feet measured 26.75 and 27.25. What the hell size do I order? 27.5? 27? Thank for any help. 

[daveo]

34 minutes ago, Mr Wonton said:

I’ve been boarding for 34 years but this is going g to be my first season with hard boots. I’m going to order a Thirst board and some f2 bindings. I’m leaning toward UPZ boots. My feet measured 26.75 and 27.25. What the hell size do I order? 27.5? 27? Thank for any help. 

What is your foot shape like? 

In relative terms:

Deeluxe: narrower footbox, wider heel

UPZ: narrower heel, mid footbox

Mountain slope: narrower heel, wider footbox

But there is more to it than just that. I've ridden all 3 and mountain slope with zipfits fit my foot best.

[Mr Wonton]

As far as I know I have a normal foot shape. I do have to wear orthotics. Where did you get mountain slopes from? With one foot being 27.25 and the other being 27.75, do I go for 27 or 27.5? Thanks. 

[daveo]

1 minute ago, Mr Wonton said:

As far as I know I have a normal foot shape. I do have to wear orthotics. Where did you get mountain slopes from? With one foot being 27.25 and the other being 27.75, do I go for 27 or 27.5? Thanks. 

@Puhutes is involved in Mountain Slope. You can talk to her. She can recommend size, stiffness, set up, etc. I'm sure she will also tell you truthfully whether they are suitable for you or not depending on all your factors.

You know those orange boots every racer has from junior to world cup to masters? They're those.

[Mr Wonton]

14 minutes ago, daveo said:

What is your foot shape like? 

In relative terms:

Deeluxe: narrower footbox, wider heel

UPZ: narrower heel, mid footbox

Mountain slope: narrower heel, wider footbox

But there is more to it than just that. I've ridden all 3 and mountain slope with zipfits fit my foot best.

 

2 minutes ago, daveo said:

@Puhutes is involved in Mountain Slope. You can talk to her. She can recommend size, stiffness, set up, etc. I'm sure she will also tell you truthfully whether they are suitable for you or not depending on all your factors.

You know those orange boots every racer has from junior to world cup to masters? They're those.

Ok. Thank you!

[1xsculler]

In UPZs the shell only come in full sizes. Half sizes are a slightly different liner only. Most guys consider the stock UPZ liners junk, as do I, so I buy my UPZs without liners and use Deeluxe/Palau 131 liners. Dan at UPZ can sometimes be talked into selling a pair of boots w/o liners which can save you a few bucks or you might be able to buy them out of Europe. 
If your feet measure 27.25 and 27.75 I would say you need a 27 shell in UPZ.

 I am unfamiliar with Mountain Slopes and I believe they are considerably more expensive than UPZ or Deeluxe. They may be worth it. 
I prefer the RC8 (identical to the RC10 except for color and one less useless buckle in the lower foot). Neither are probably available any longer so the 12s may be your only choice and they’re probably fine. 
Thirsts and Coilers are probably your best bet with Thirst being preferred for a budding hardboot carver, IMHO. After you get your carve down either board will do you well as will Doneks and many others. 
Do Norms until you tip over both ways and until you can’t stand it any longer. After you find your pencil lines and are linking them up do occasional Norms until you are a hipdragger. Just my $0.02 and it’s worth less. 

[Mr Wonton]

18 minutes ago, 1xsculler said:

In UPZs the shell only come in full sizes. Half sizes are a slightly different liner only. Most guys consider the stock UPZ liners junk, as do I, so I buy my UPZs without liners and use Deeluxe/Palau 131 liners. Dan at UPZ can sometimes be talked into selling a pair of boots w/o liners which can save you a few bucks or you might be able to buy them out of Europe. 
If your feet measure 27.25 and 27.75 I would say you need a 27 shell in UPZ.

 I am unfamiliar with Mountain Slopes and I believe they are considerably more expensive than UPZ or Deeluxe. They may be worth it. 
I prefer the RC8 (identical to the RC10 except for color and one less useless buckle in the lower foot). Neither are probably available any longer so the 12s may be your only choice and they’re probably fine. 
Thirsts and Coilers are probably your best bet with Thirst being preferred for a budding hardboot carver, IMHO. After you get your carve down either board will do you well as will Doneks and many others. 
Do Norms until you tip over both ways and until you can’t stand it any longer. After you find your pencil lines and are linking them up do occasional Norms until you are a hipdragger. Just my $0.02 and it’s worth less. 

Awesome. Thank you. 

[hknz]

On 2/26/2021 at 9:43 PM, Billb said:

Me again , a year later with the UPZs. Not much time on them due to COVID but a handful of days. Orig Deeluxs are 28. New UPZs are 28.5 . I think after all those years the 28 were too small . First day out this year decided the thermofit in 28 are too small and back of my rear heel is in excruciating pain. Never had the heel pain in the Deeluxs but they also never felt great.Went back to the UPZ liners , heated them , put in all pads that came with them , added a heel wrap for rear and boots feel ok . Not slippers but not painful. I unbuckle on the lift . 
Thinking about trying Intuition liners . Shell fit is 2 fingers . Anyone have a suggestion of what liners and volume to choose . I want a comfort fit , not performance fit . 
The heel pain is the direct back of my heel and it is much less painful in the stock liners . But still there . Thanks 

If your rear heel is pain, you are same as me. You need a shim in the shape of a butterfly, "reverse-U", or "C".

You can ask a bootfitter to help or figure out that shape by yourself.

 

 

[daveo]

On 2/27/2021 at 12:43 AM, Billb said:

I want a comfort fit , not performance fit .

I think you can get both from a Zipfit liner.

[teach]

Mr Wonton, UPZ boots are not sized like most ski boots or alpine snowboard boots. The shells do not go up in 1 cm increments. There are various charts that attempt to convert, but they don't always agree.

For example, the OP has "size 28.5" UPZ. Nowhere on the boot does it give a mondo size, so there is a conversion involved.  Depending on which chart was involved, he could have the 312mm shell (UPZ sizes 8.5/9/9.5) or the 324mm shell (UPZ sizes 10/10.5/11). @lonbordingave some of the sizing charts in a post above; two of those put 28.5 as the 324mm shell.

So be careful with internet advice on UPZ sizing, as it's not quite what people think it is. 

For a foot 27.25 or 27.75, the shell below the 312mm would probably work well. That's 299mm, for UPZ sizes 7/7.5/8. Interior length should be around 29.2 cm so it's long enough... but your foot shape would dictate whether you'd need shell work.

Your earlier post said 26.75 and 27.25. If that's correct than the next smaller shell 287mm might be a better choice. Note it's only 8mm smaller. Should have interior length about 28.4cm then. 

EDIT: ^doh. 12 mm smaller, so could well be too small. 

UPZ has three "sizes" per shell (not two, not half-sizes) accomplished by different liners. I don't actually find a difference between the different sizes for a given shell. The liners are quite narrow in the forefoot (I just put some new ones in and day-um they're like a vise) but they will break in ... well, they did for me. Very comfortable, UPZ 9.5 liners, 312mm shell, ~29.8cm foot.

One more point: get good foot support one way or another. Then redo your measurements. Read Beckmann AG 's material on boots: http://beckmannag.com (Under Alpine Skiing).

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by teach
299 - 287 = ?

[Mr Wonton]

32 minutes ago, teach said:

Mr Wonton, UPZ boots are not sized like most ski boots or alpine snowboard boots. The shells do not go up in 1 cm increments. There are various charts that attempt to convert, but they don't always agree.

For example, the OP has "size 28.5" UPZ. Nowhere on the boot does it give a mondo size, so there is a conversion involved.  Depending on which chart was involved, he could have the 312mm shell (UPZ sizes 8.5/9/9.5) or the 324mm shell (UPZ sizes 10/10.5/11). @lonbordingave some of the sizing charts in a post above; two of those put 28.5 as the 324mm shell.

So be careful with internet advice on UPZ sizing, as it's not quite what people think it is. 

For a foot 27.25 or 27.75, the shell below the 312mm would probably work well. That's 299mm, for UPZ sizes 7/7.5/8. Interior length should be around 29.2 cm so it's long enough... but your foot shape would dictate whether you'd need shell work.

Your earlier post said 26.75 and 27.25. If that's correct than the next smaller shell 287mm might be a better choice. Note it's only 8mm smaller. Should have interior length about 28.4cm then.

UPZ has three "sizes" per shell (not two, not half-sizes) accomplished by different liners. I don't actually find a difference between the different sizes for a given shell. The liners are quite narrow in the forefoot (I just put some new ones in and day-um they're like a vise) but they will break in ... well, they did for me. Very comfortable, UPZ 9.5 liners, 312mm shell, ~29.8cm foot.

One more point: get good foot support one way or another. Then redo your measurements. Read Beckmann AG 's material on boots: http://beckmannag.com (Under Alpine Skiing).

 

 

 

Thank you for your reply. This is ridiculous. Just when I think I’m making some progress  toward a decision, I get more confused about sizing. Then I think I figure it out and no one has anything in stock anyway. 

[big mario]

Welcome to the world of over complication.  It will get better

mario

 

[Mr Wonton]

1 minute ago, big mario said:

Welcome to the world of over complication.  It will get better

mario

 

Makes me almost want to stay in soft boots. Look for 10.5. Done. 

[teach]

All Board Sports has a few pairs on ebay. Also another seller. TrueSport has some in a sweet red/orange. The North America distributor has them in "26-26.5" which is likely the shell you want (ask for the shell size or UPZ size stamped on the heel). 

EDIT: The Spanish board company OES (On Edge Style) has UPZ in these sizes too. You can get shell only, then find a suitable liner.

Again, ask questions to get the shell size. The "UK size" on the box is the UPZ size. 7, 7.5 or 8 is probably what you want. (Older boxes call it EU size). That's the 299mm shell.

I think hardboot fit is more difficult and more critical than soft boot fit. No straps after all. 

Edited April 2, 2021 by teach
Added OES as a source

[teach]

Where do you ride? Might be a chance someone around has shells you can try on.

[Mr Wonton]

3 hours ago, teach said:

All Board Sports has a few pairs on ebay. Also another seller. TrueSport has some in a sweet red/orange. The North America distributor has them in "26-26.5" which is likely the shell you want (ask for the shell size or UPZ size stamped on the heel). 

EDIT: The Spanish board company OES (On Edge Style) has UPZ in these sizes too. You can get shell only, then find a suitable liner.

Again, ask questions to get the shell size. The "UK size" on the box is the UPZ size. 7, 7.5 or 8 is probably what you want. (Older boxes call it EU size). That's the 299mm shell.

I think hardboot fit is more difficult and more critical than soft boot fit. No straps after all. 

I’ll do some research. Thanks. 

[hknz]

The internal lengths of 287 and 299 shell are 279mm and 292mm respectively.

 

299 shell is most likely too big, 287 shell shell is a few mm too small.

[MountainSlope]

12 hours ago, hknz said:

The internal lengths of 287 and 299 shell are 279mm and 292mm respectively.

 

299 shell is most likely too big, 287 shell shell is a few mm too small.

Our C-Shell accomodates mondo sizes 270-280 and D-Shell accomodates mondo sizes 280-295

[hknz]

58 minutes ago, Puhutes said:

Our C-Shell accomodates mondo sizes 270-280 and D-Shell accomodates mondo sizes 280-295

MS951 shell C and D internal lengths are 292mm and 307mm respectively.

Great boots! I use shell A. Thank mountain slope people making these retro boots.

Even better if they offer tongue (which is 90% softer) for free carving, light weight people and extremecarving guys. Otherwise serious mod needs. Look how i cut my tongues. I am still finding way to cut more.

Edited April 4, 2021 by hknz

[daveo]

@hknz Are you using the green soft springs, also?