st_lupo Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 I was just reading Jack's thread on outsider perspectives, and became curious as to how easy it is to arrive at our forums when google about hardboot snowboarding (without using the TM "Alpine Snowboarding"). I didn't find ASB in the top five, but I do think I CAME ACROSS THE SOLUTION TO GROWING OUR SPORT! It solves the problem around the biggest hurdle to hardbooting, namely finding the boots. The answer is so obvious, so simple, and so elegant I can't believe it hasn't been mentioned before. Granted the linked pages reference skiing applications but why not something similar oriented towards hard-booting? This is going to appeal to everybody! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ski/articles/new-envy-ski-frame-snowboard-boots-sore-feet/ https://www.madjacksnowsports.com/ Genious! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 I spend some time on other forums and guess what? .... Softboots can be just as uncomfortable as a poorly fit pair of hardboots. The problem is that softboots have less options for the bootfitter as shell deformation is usually off the table. I think this whole "issue" of comfort typically stems from people's very first experience with boots. Most people rent their first time on the hill... so you're going to get a generic pair of worn ski boots or a generic pair of worn softboots. In this realm the softboots (both sets will be worn in a size too large) are more comfortable than the ski boots. Therefore the impression of comfort. First impressions are VERY hard to overcome. I've had a couple of recent chances to try on a whole host of softboots. None were as comfortable as my hardboots. None had the progressive flex that I can control (harder or softer) as my hardboots. The solutions remind me of the splitboarding community... some are firmly in the SB camp but lament their lack of stiffness on ascents, some are in the AT boot camp and modify their boots for more flex. In my mind a better boot design would be the winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 That system has very long sole length. I'd need like a 26cm wide board to ride a 60 degree stance. Edit - oh I see what you mean - create something similar for use on snowboards. I still think that would be pretty long. Also what about making a good ol' 3 strap binding like there used to be? Only updated and better? Maybe there is finally a market for one again. I've been toying with the idea of adding Booster Straps to the tops of my Now O-drives, but the highback doesn't lock down and I'd be concerned about breaking them. I've updated the window title of alpinesnowboarder.com to include the phrase hardboot snowboarding. Should help with search engine optimization. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted March 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 I guess not everybody reads that first post in John Cleese's voice . While trying to be a complete noob I googled ski boots on snowboard and those links were at the top and I thought they were kida wack. The video on Mad Jacks doesn't really inspire awe in the product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Jack M said: Also what about making a good ol' 3 strap binding like there used to be? Only updated and better? Maybe there is finally a market for one again. I've been toying with the idea of adding Booster Straps to the tops of my Now O-drives, but the highback doesn't lock down and I'd be concerned about breaking them. This is then entering the, "why not just use hardboots?" territory, then. Looked into powerride, though? Edit: oh you mean to increase interest in hardboots, not just for yourself. Got it. Edited March 8, 2019 by daveo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, daveo said: This is then entering the, "why not just use hardboots?" territory, then. Looked into powerride, though? Because many people simply refuse to use hardboots for whatever reason. Including all these impressive Asian softboot carvers. Surely they are aware hardboots exist. They simply don't want to go there. Also 3 strap bindings are still not nearly as limiting for other types of riding. If there was (and maybe there is) simply a stiff softboot binding like the Now O-Drive but with a locking highback that could accept a booster strap, that would be a good approach for these people. Take the booster straps off and stuff them in your pocket if you want. That woman is an expert slarver... but there's not a lot of actual edge-locked-in carving in that video. And the conditions look hero. Powerride - I'm not finding it... I am not knowing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Jack M said: Powerride - I'm not finding it... I am not knowing... http://freeride-powerride.com/powerride.html http://freeride-powerride.com/index.html Stiff inserts for the SB tongue Edited March 8, 2019 by lonbordin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mig Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 18 minutes ago, Jack M said: Powerride - I'm not finding it... I am not knowing... Fits between the liner and boot shell: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffreeride-powerride.com%2Fpg516.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 To hell with the newbies. Let them do what i had to do. Save your pennies find boots . Pay shipping and duties brokerage fees US dollar exchange wait hope and continue to search for a deal. Then go to the hill hurt yourself, embarrass yourself, humiliate yourself start to have fun and then get hooked. The best thing that i encountered was BOL and i can't recall how i found out about it ! Now get out and spread the word. Question to Jack. Has a mass email been sent to previous BOL members informing them of Alpinesnowboarder.com ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 Idea has been around, there is a ski boot called the Apex, basically a modified snowboard boot in a frame like this, but they've had more years developing the system to be better. Price is steep tho, more than upz or deeluxe steep...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenan Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 It's been done. The guy who invented the rear entry ski boot developed these years ago. A lot of instructors are getting these so they can easily switch from board to skis or vice versa. https://www.apexskiboots.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 I think we'll always be a niche at best, but insofar as the market can grow, I think it'll be skiers (and skilled skiers at that) who find the hardboot experience most appealing, rather than snowboarders who want to carve deeper than softboots allow. My first hardboots were just my ski racing boots with the top buckles loose, and if sidewinders had been available then I might have stayed with them longer before switching to those pink and green Raichle monstrosities. So for me, the setup that will grow the sport is a setup which can ride well with skiboots at moderate angles such that you can ski up to the demo booth and skate out with a board on your feet. It would want readily adjustable bindings like the purple Burtons, with some flex to them, and a board around 23cm waist with much less torsional rigidity than most of us would prefer, just so that the first turns weren't a chatterfest. What I DON'T think will grow the sport is boots which are more "comfortable" where comfortable is just a euphemism for "sloppy". To make a real turn you sooner or later need some support from the boot. I'd rather make the board sloppy for forgiveness and keep the boots firm for control and power. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe T Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 The Apex system does seem better given that the boot seems more integrated for fit with the strap in shell. Didn’t watch all of them but the speakers in their videos speak of not losing performance which is hard to believe. I would think their target market would be more suited to the intermediate skier. The riding in the vids were pretty decent though. I assume you could snowboard in the boots but didn’t see this mentioned as a selling point. Would be an interesting concept to design something similar for hardboots though. Similar idea to this softer Deeluxe hybrid boot noted in another post but with more versatility of switching into soft boot bindings. Or better yet, a design that has the versatility to allow for direct mounting to a board as well. In effect it could become a stiff softboot binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLN Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 7 hours ago, lonbordin said: I spend some time on other forums and guess what? .... Softboots can be just as uncomfortable as a poorly fit pair of hardboots. The problem is that softboots have less options for the bootfitter as shell deformation is usually off the table. I bought Driver X last year. Lots of PITA with laces (Coming from Malamutes), too tight, even after heating liner. Ended with black nail and almost ruined my season. My UPC RC10 (9.5, 312mm, when I wear US11.5-12 street shoe) not only fit like a glove, but also give immediate response and much more control. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 hour ago, TLN said: I bought Driver X last year. Lots of PITA with laces (Coming from Malamutes), too tight, even after heating liner. Ended with black nail and almost ruined my season. My UPC RC10 (9.5, 312mm, when I wear US11.5-12 street shoe) not only fit like a glove, but also give immediate response and much more control. The driver x liner is... Less than ideal from my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 9 hours ago, lowrider said: Has a mass email been sent to previous BOL members informing them of Alpinesnowboarder.com ? Yes, it went out right after the transition last spring. If you’re opted out of receiving forum emails you didn’t get it. Or it may have gone into your spam folder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 21 hours ago, Gabe T said: The Apex system does seem better given that the boot seems more integrated for fit with the strap in shell. Didn’t watch all of them but the speakers in their videos speak of not losing performance which is hard to believe. I would think their target market would be more suited to the intermediate skier. The riding in the vids were pretty decent though. Apex's shell is designed to be 100% fit for their boot, without your weight it's even a bit hard to put the boot into the shell. I believe it's marketed for touring skiers, unmatched comfort comparing to standard touring boots. Interesting design features: forward lean, shell cant, and elastomer bushing to adjust hardness (90-120 I think) Had my hands on a pair of Apex MC3, have to say, very much built boot, given tooling costs and development for such a small company the price makes sense..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuisanceIV Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 I wonder how well that boot protects the ankles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhamann Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 On 3/8/2019 at 10:24 AM, Jack M said: Because many people simply refuse to use hardboots for whatever reason. Including all these impressive Asian softboot carvers. Surely they are aware hardboots exist. They simply don't want to go there. been there. look at it the other way around. (hardbooting is easier with less crowd pleasing versatility). been seeing more of a younger crowd trying to teach themselves to carve out there on the slopes recently. keep doing what we do and some will dive into the deeps. some will be happy staying at mad river glen. On 3/8/2019 at 10:43 AM, lonbordin said: Stiff inserts for the SB tongue nice. i was shown the K2 Thraxis when getting liners molded earlier this season. it has this integrated into a 3rd boa, fixed to the shell. liner can be replaced. would be curious to try the asian tongue. wait, that came out wrong. wonder if you'd have to use some sort of velcro, etc to keep it fixed between liner/tongue. different stiffnesses as well. nice. where have these gone in the US? i remember having a set of airwalk freerides with this similar concept. higher cuff too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 On 3/8/2019 at 10:43 AM, lonbordin said: http://freeride-powerride.com/powerride.html http://freeride-powerride.com/index.html Stiff inserts for the SB tongue Cool. I'd be into that. Where to buy?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, Jack M said: Cool. I'd be into that. Where to buy?? Try http://xyz-net.ocnk.net/product-list/4 Or Rakuten Or like... I can get you a pair next season if you want. 3 hours ago, dhamann said: would be curious to try the asian tongue You should try it. My personal favourite variety of tongue. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 The only way to grow this sport, i.e. riding the thin line on 45/45, or steeper, hard boot angles, and a dedicated alpine carving board, keeping the board only high on edge throughout linked up turns is to get the prospective newby to watch some great carving in person or on Youtube. IF they're don't think it's the coolest thing they've ever seen to the point of dedicating their riding to learning the technique then forget it. They will never really want to do it and, therefore, will never learn to do it. I have never been able to get one single, out of many, many good skiers and snowboarders, interested in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Jack M said: Cool. I'd be into that. Where to buy?? Yep... that's two.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 May pull the trigger? https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/ts-passo/item/s_05-267/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishsurfer Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Shred Gruumer said: May pull the trigger? https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/ts-passo/item/s_05-267/ its pretty much a less DIY version of what i run in my boots lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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