Missionman Posted March 19, 2017 Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 ^ agreed. With all due respect, I couldn't help but read (parts of) the article and think "give me a break". I don't care that people have made money out of all this- that's business, we live in a capitalistic society. Sometimes we get good stuff from big business (and from small businesses like the bombers and coilers of this world). But I get to choose where I spend my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neanderthal Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 5 hours ago, carvedog said: I ride to carve. I don't care if it's popular or who is zooming who. The less organized the better. Anarchy is the path of the future. Amen brother!!! I too ride to carve and carving is the sensation that got me hooked and changed me from a two planker to one. If anything has worked to change the dynamic and reduce the prevalence of snowboarding it is the adoption of snowboard carving tech by ski manufacturers. Now just about anyone can get a wide ski with good sidecut and feel the carving or powder floating sensations in rapid order. No steep learning curve or "specialized equipment" and the versatility of skiing offers no sitting, kneeling or unbuckling on the flats. A good AT setup offers all of the above plus light boots with amazing walkability and easy access to backcountry. Bottom line - I have 2 children who both learned to ski. It was much easier to progress from snowplow to carve (no toe or heelside edge catching/flips and gone are the days of crossed tips with the shorter skis) than learn to board and they do not feel that they are missing anything. Will I ever go back to skis - low likelihood but I do not see the same compelling reasons to start snowboarding that I did it 1989. Is it just me or is the average age of a snowboarder on the hill >30? This more than commercialization and silly contests worries me, that said I did nod my head in affirmation a few times while reading the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 1 hour ago, neanderthal said: Will I ever go back to skis - low likelihood but I do not see the same compelling reasons to start snowboarding that I did it 1989. Is it just me or is the average age of a snowboarder on the hill >30? This more than commercialization and silly contests worries me, that said I did nod my head in affirmation a few times while reading the article. Agreed. If any friends are talking about learning to ski or snowboard, I strongly recommend skiing. You can have fun the first day on skis - not so much on a board. If they really want it, then they can switch any time they want. If they're casual skiers/riders, they're going to have an awful first day on a board and tell everyone how much snowboarding sucks. My local hills are still 60% snowboarders, and the cover the whole age range. Way more are under 20 than over though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, corey_dyck said: You can have fun the first day on skis - not so much on a board. If they really want it, then they can switch any time they want. If they're casual skiers/riders, they're going to have an awful first day on a board and tell everyone how much snowboarding sucks. And, that's just EXACTLY WHY, in '89, Kevin Burnham and I decided that a 'no-fall' beginner lesson was the answer! See, that's the thing; You all set these limits based on what PSIA, or USSA, or FIS, have fed you these many, many years. So Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 All the people I have taught to Snowboard had fun from the minute they stepped on it ...at least they said they did were there some slams, of course ...my first time was up Independence pass in the fall...I walked up to the top and 45 minutes later I was laying in a ditch by the side of the road laughing...having come from 16 straight ski seasons on Ajax in the Bumps and Pow...at 38, I once again found myself at the very beginning of something wonderful and a total Kook Carving and the G's are to close to both Sufing and Skating to allow me any other path...the more I Carve the more I want to Carve...as for Sole, I have worn out plenty of those, in 33 seasons... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) I want to post this, as a repost, because so Many Of you have just glided over what we've said,;and interposed it as 'your own',yet never recognised the duplication which of itself is Theft of Ideals. Sorry, but, it's gotta end, dudes! I've said as much,many times, here in the old days,, on Freecarve, and again back here, but, RESEARCH your danged THOUGHTS before you go Claiming, or start Paying ME some Royalties!!! I'm damn broke, but, not Greedy.. However, much of my ideals have merit across many timelines. So, don't 'Cut+Copy' me, or I will start the legal thing to defend my work.. Edited March 31, 2017 by Eric Brammer aka PSR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 Eric - what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davekempmeister Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 near end of season irritability. I suffer from it. my wife and kids know the symptoms, I am sure. some despise one another's every word, every day of the year. great atmospherics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 While I know who Chris Karol is and fully respect his experience, I think the unpleasant truth is that the FIS takeover of ISF doesn't matter one iota, to anyone other than those who were personally invested in ISF. FIS came along and said "We'll take it from here. You play by our rules now. Oh by the way, we're going to make money off this." Oh the humanity. They were probably rude at the time, but such is life in business. You want to compete on this level? You accept the rules of FIS/USSA/USASA, and go compete. Or you don't. The fact that there used to be a grassroots organization called ISF doesn't enter into this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 Quote You can have fun the first day on skis - not so much on a board. I always tell people this who ask me about snowboarding. But I always make sure to tell them that the second day is a VERY different matter! IMHO, the learning curve for the first, say, 40 % of skills is far steeper in snowboarding, i.e. people progress much faster than on skis. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 On 3/19/2017 at 9:40 PM, corey_dyck said: You can have fun the first day on skis - not so much on a board. I respectfully disagree completely, if one takes a lesson in the morning. If you were meant to slide sideways, after a 2 hour group lesson you'll be linking turns and having a lot of fun on good green-circle trails, and not just the bunny hill. I think the resurgence of skiing (due 100% to inventions by snowboarders like usable sidecut, twin-tips, parks, etc) has effectively killed the fad of snowboarding. The only people trying it now are the ones who actually want to surf or skate the snow. This is a good thing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 5 hours ago, Eric Brammer aka PSR said: I want to post this, as a repost, because so Many Of you have just glided over what we've said,;and interposed it as 'your own',yet never recognised the duplication which of itself is Theft of Ideals. Sorry, but, it's gotta end, dudes! I've said as much,many times, here in the old days,, on Freecarve, and again back here, but, RESEARCH your danged THOUGHTS before you go Claiming, or start Paying ME some Royalties!!! I'm damn broke, but, not Greedy.. However, much of my ideals have merit across many timelines. So, don't 'Cut+Copy' me, or I will start the legal thing to defend my work.. What the heck are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Jack Michaud said: I respectfully disagree completely, if one takes a lesson in the morning. If you were meant to slide sideways, after a 2 hour group lesson you'll be linking turns and having a lot of fun on good green-circle trails, and not just the bunny hill. I think the resurgence of skiing (due 100% to inventions by snowboarders like usable sidecut, twin-tips, parks, etc) has effectively killed the fad of snowboarding. The only people trying it now are the ones who actually want to surf or skate the snow. This is a good thing. I'm going to completely agree with your disagreement. ;) LOL! I was meaning for the casual user that wants to try it and is likely too cheap to pay for a lesson. Sorry, bad wording on my part. For that person, just go play on some skis or snowblades. Snowblades look good with your jeans, sweet camo jacket, and blaze orange hat. If you're driven, then do what you want. If you're not driven, take the easy/fun option first. I also agree with the fad comment. The public image of snowboarders appeals to more people than snowboarding does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 LOL, yes. If you're not going to take a lesson, stay very far away from snowboards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Jack Michaud said: LOL, yes. If you're not going to take a lesson, stay very far away from snowboards. Unless you're motivated. Or have 'soul' in excess. I learned how to not kill myself or others without outside help. Granted, it took a lot of helpful people to undo bad habits a couple decades later. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Jack Michaud said: LOL, yes. If you're not going to take a lesson, stay very far away from snowboards. 3 hours ago, corey_dyck said: Unless you're motivated. Or have 'soul' in excess. I learned how to not kill myself or others without outside help. Granted, it took a lot of helpful people to undo bad habits a couple decades later. ;) there were no such thing as snowboard instructors when I started learning to ski on a snowboard... now my bad habits are quite refined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 I was required to take a "lesson" at Sunshine in 1986, in order to get my snowboard license. I had to prove I could stop and turn in both directions, which I had taught myself on a small sledding hill at home. There wasn't much teaching going on. Later I took 2 pretty much useless lessons, as I had already advanced past what they were teaching at the time. I think it's much better now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 3 hours ago, corey_dyck said: Unless you're motivated. Or have 'soul' in excess. I learned how to not kill myself or others without outside help. Granted, it took a lot of helpful people to undo bad habits a couple decades later. ;) Sure sure. I was an instructor during snowboarding's fad years. A shocking number of people would show up to a lesson not knowing if they were regular or goofy (and the rental shop didn't care). To these people.... just go ski. Instructors were mandated to carry mini-drivers to fix all this. Pain in the ass. I would hope now that the fad is over and skiing is easier than ever that these people are the extreme exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 16 minutes ago, Jack Michaud said: Sure sure. I was an instructor during snowboarding's fad years. A shocking number of people would show up to a lesson not knowing if they were regular or goofy (and the rental shop didn't care). To these people.... just go ski. Instructors were mandated to carry mini-drivers to fix all this. Pain in the ass. I would hope now that the fad is over and skiing is easier than ever that these people are the extreme exception. This is all figured out today. Twin shape, +15/-15 send 'em out the rental door. I've asked kids... many don't even know the words regular or goofy... riding switch is just riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 10 hours ago, Eric Brammer aka PSR said: I want to post this, as a repost, because so Many Of you have just glided over what we've said,;and interposed it as 'your own',yet never recognised the duplication which of itself is Theft of Ideals. Sorry, but, it's gotta end, dudes! I've said as much,many times, here in the old days,, on Freecarve, and again back here, but, RESEARCH your danged THOUGHTS before you go Claiming, or start Paying ME some Royalties!!! I'm damn broke, but, not Greedy.. However, much of my ideals have merit across many timelines. So, don't 'Cut+Copy' me, or I will start the legal thing to defend my work.. whaaat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 Heelside duck bulldozer for the win! Mr. Knapton totally ripped off the kids at my local hills. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, lonbordin said: This is all figured out today. Twin shape, +15/-15 send 'em out the rental door. I've asked kids... many don't even know the words regular or goofy... riding switch is just riding. Not sure I'd call that "figured out" because most people are stronger going one way than the other, and I generally disagree with duck, but hey it sure makes it easier on the rental shop and easier for the instructor to just think "fine, good enough". It's all good bro, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jack Michaud said: Not sure I'd call that "figured out" because most people are stronger going one way than the other, and I generally disagree with duck, but hey it sure makes it easier on the rental shop and easier for the instructor to just think "fine, good enough". It's all good bro, right? Sorry I meant in the snowboarding as a fiscal model figured out way... not snowboarding as conducive to good riding kind of way. It's all good Brofessor X. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Quote I learned how to not kill myself or others without outside help. Granted, it took a lot of helpful people to undo bad habits a couple decades later. Been there, made those mistakes ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Interesting read as I know nothing of the politics of professional racing. Is there a committee of racers or coaches that can advise rules or changes to the organizing associations? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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