piusthedrcarve Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) Do feet shape change over time? It seems that every other year I need to re-mold liners to be 100% comfortable. I'm not saying that the discomfort is unbearable. Just few area that are noticeable since I don't remember I had any foot pain or pressure points in prior season. Weight stays same. Only ride 15-20 days per season. Edited December 21, 2016 by piusthedrcarve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 I'm no expert but I do suspect that feet do change shape over time. I tried re-molding my liners recently. I tried the "hot rice in a sock" technique with limited success. It is hard to get the rice all the way into the toe. What method do you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piusthedrcarve Posted December 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Traditional way, cooking in the oven. http://bomberonline.3dcartstores.com/assets/images/PDFs/self_molding_liners.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 yes at least mine do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donek Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 I grew up with a mother that made everyone miserable with her painful ski boots, but never had any problems until a few years ago. I can definitely say my feet get worse every year. Fin Doyle has compared me to a prom date. All I do is complain about my shoes. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piusthedrcarve Posted December 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Donek said: I can definitely say my feet get worse every year. Fin Doyle has compared me to a prom date. All I do is complain about my shoes. :) Yeah. I was able to wear Rachel 125 boots that I used +10 years ago without any problem at age 30s. But in recent years, I notice my feet is getting more callus and arch is getting flatter. BTW,...I like newer boots' colors and buckles, and glossy materials too. I guess there is a direct correlation between arch height and testosterone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 40 minutes ago, Donek said: Fin Doyle has compared me to a prom date. All I do is complain about my shoes. That's hilarious! Hopefully you don't vomit in the limo too... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 I think Sean wins the 'most unexpected comment' award for 2016. LOL! I've used the same liners for about 4 years in a row (in the past) without issue, but I have very rigid/high arches. I'm trying Intuition Alpine liners this year after too much shin pain last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 I don't have a problem. I do know that every year my feet have to beat my liners into submission, or the other way around, for the first day or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 My arches flattened out -- actually, I should say "flattened out more" around age 38 or so. My foot length increased as a result, but I'm still able to squeeze into my original shells+liners, just needed the liners remolded. I suspect going up a half size on the liner would be more comfortable, but it's workable. In the book "Born to Run," they talk about barefoot running strengthening the arch, and shoe sizes getting smaller as a result...I don't think that barefoot running is necessarily ideal from an impact perspective, but interesting to think about building the arch up. Mike T has mentioned he has some yoga exercises that help with arch strength, but I don't remember the details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 3 hours ago, piusthedrcarve said: Do feet shape change over time? It seems that every other year I need to re-mold liners to be 100% comfortable. I'm not saying that the discomfort is unbearable. Just few area that are noticeable since I don't remember I had any foot pain or pressure points in prior season. Weight stays same. Only ride 15-20 days per season. First - I've NEVER thought about any ski or snowboard boot as 100% comfortable. For me this is an unattainable goal. The secret to happiness is reduced expectations. Also, I wonder if "foot change" occurs more during the season or during the off-season. Do we just get to the point of tolerating the discomfort by the time the season ends and take the time in early season to re-mold liners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) In my time as a bootfitter, I saw several customers come through the shop with issues of bone-structure change do to age/heredity or footware required by their vocation. My left foot is pretty messed up now, after nearly 9 years of being in steel-toed shoes on concrete flooring in a machine shop. My right foot, which got broken back in '95, has a much lower arch as well, but it hasn't changed as severely as the left one has at the fore-foot. Both of my feet have huge spurs at the heel, which I surmise comes from many, many years in Sorels/stuffed with ski-boot-liners and old-style Flite/Sims/Funky/burton/Kemper crap bindings. The hardboot I need doesn't exist; I need the heel section, ankle strap placement and cuff of a Dee-luxe, and the toe box of a UPZ! Edited December 21, 2016 by Eric Brammer aka PSR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donek Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 I've been using eliminator tongues for the last few years because I have a low volume ankle. They work, but progressively slip out of the boot until I find them in my pant leg at the end of the day. I decided to try a new approach this year because there was so little to loose. I used some craft foam sheets from walmart and just started putting them in the boot wherever it felt loose. I can say that it worked really well. With some minor tweaking I think I can get rid of the eliminator tongues and ride in way more comfort. I have to be a bit more careful when inserting my liner, but I had far fewer problems with the boot grasping my ankle and calf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drschwartz Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Feet change as we get older. The spring ligament in the arch of the foot loosens with time, and the arch changes. Metatarsal heads splay out wider as time goes by. Toes change shape, and get hammertoe and bunion deformities. The bones of the mid foot also enlarge as the joints get arthritic. finally, the heel bone also can get enlarged, and the ankle and foot joints get less mobile. All of these things gradually cause changes in fit and comfort. My advice, good, heat moldable boot liners can make up for many of the abnormalities, but also an experienced boot fitter who can mold the shells properly makes a huge difference. Invest in the work on the shells - it has made all the difference for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladia Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 Of course they change. This is a reason I don't waste money on custom footbeds anymore. Next year they are useless just causing pain. Liners usually need to be re molded every winter. Currently I have 3 pairs of boots and suffer at all of them regardless how much money and work was put into them in previous seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monodude Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 A properly fitted boot can be achieved. I agree with shell work. My Nordica Supercharger Ignition boots are 8 years old now. stock liners, not moldable. I had the shell blown out on the outside of each little toe and at the big toe on both. I have about 400 days in them. Hands down the most comfortable I've ever worn. Also they were a full size smaller than I had ever worn. Last year I installed Hotronics heaters and just the duct tape under the Super feet footbed tightened them up like new. If you can accurately describe where it hurts or pressures, a good boot fitter can make 'em feel like slippers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west carven Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 howdy "I need new boots"... that's what she said!... every year... ha!... does this boot make my feet look fat?... ha!... just kidding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) Feet 'size' can change over time, but that doesn't mean they will. The usual suspects affecting dimension are hormonal activity, trauma, or genetic disposition. Bone spurs don't really count, as that condition is a byproduct of avoidable irritation. Most likely what you're dealing with, is the tendency of moldable materials to return somewhat to their initial dimension. Most 'plastics' (including foamy liners) have something of a memory. Given enough time, there will be some 'spring back' even at ambient temperature. As mentioned, one of the keys to a long-lived boot fit is finding a shell that very closely matches, or can be formed to match, all of the foot contours, and not just the length. If the shell is not a good match, that gooey liner is tasked with making up the difference, and that generally means differential compaction of the foam based on contour. Some areas of foam will be compressed more, some less in the molding process. Those under higher compaction will tend to expand faster than those under lighter compaction. So, after a summer in the closet or basement, the internal contours are no longer what they were in the springtime, and you reach the conclusion that your feet have changed shape. 10 hours ago, Ladia said: Of course they change. This is a reason I don't waste money on custom footbeds anymore. Next year they are useless just causing pain. Liners usually need to be re molded every winter. Don't blame your feet for the work of a poor boot tech. Ski Industry propaganda suggests that feet change every 3 to 4 years. It's an attempt to draw attention away from the shoddy molding/construction/posting of the typical footbed, placing the blame on the conformation of the customer, rather than on the boot fitter. A footbed made of appropriate materials, and properly tuned to the client will last a very long time. I recently checked the contours and posting effect on a pair I made back in '97. That particular client skis most every weekend, and was rather surprised to realize that he did not need to buy a new pair. Similarly, I had a good set made for me back in '92, and while the materials are slowly crumbling, they work as they should otherwise. Many of the footbeds I've produced have seen 8-10 years of service. More often than not they get retired due to incidental structural damage, such as when a pair of boots is left near an unfamiliar heat source for an extended period. Edited December 22, 2016 by Beckmann AG 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Beckmann AG said: Bone spurs don't really count, as that condition is a byproduct of avoidable irritation. The ONLY other option known to be available in '85, in softboots, was the Sorel Mc Kinley. The Kamik-based Burton boots of '86-'88 were a bad joke. Dale boot liners, in Sorels evolved into Burton's 'freestyle' boot, which had the support of mashed potatoes. We had to fend for ourselves, make stuff up as we went. Had I jumped on the Neon-Boot bandwagon (Koflachs, in Pink or Yellow) sooner, I might have not had the heel spurs? But, I'd have to say, the only avoidance then would've been not to ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Beckmann AG said: Most likely what you're dealing with, is the tendency of moldable materials to return somewhat to their initial dimension. Most 'plastics' (including foamy liners) have something of a memory. Given enough time, there will be some 'spring back' even at ambient temperature. That's what I assume happens. My liners are fine after the first day or two. They just need some persuading, not remoulding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piusthedrcarve Posted December 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 I rode first time this season with re-molded liners. Problem solved. I got a lot more callus under my feet (don't know why) during off-season. I figured that may caused the uncomfortable. To eliminate the doubt, i took the issue to extreme. A lot of internal giggles and smiles from ladies. But I was man-enough to take it. My testosterone is not down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 On December 22, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Eric Brammer aka PSR said: The ONLY other option known to be available in '85, in softboots, was the Sorel Mc Kinley. We had to fend for ourselves, make stuff up as we went. Had I jumped on the Neon-Boot bandwagon (Koflachs, in Pink or Yellow) sooner, I might have not had the heel spurs? But, I'd have to say, the only avoidance then would've been not to ride. In 1985, I was riding a Burton Performer Elite wearing a pair of 1972 vintage Sorels (See photo). Stock wool liners. No bone spurs. But then I probably wasn't riding enough. The DARPA 'Tom Swift' Scholarship was a priority that consumed most of my time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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