Just figured out the UPZ forward lean

[SunSurfer]

@slabberccheck you weren't riding in walk mode in your UPZs. As well as the spring system there is also a 4 position lever to select one of the four. If you don't engage the lever you get free fore and back flex.

[slabber]

thanks @SunSurfer - yah, quite sure I had them locked (lever flipped up).  They flexed considerably more when in walk mode...  I'll continue to test and dial them in so to speak.   

I've been in the Raichle's with fixed lean for over 25 years so it'll take some getting used to for me I think.

[patmoore]

Dan at UPZ is very responsive.  He sent me this:

Hi Patrick

I think you'll have a slight problem. 

The boots you have are 20 years old in the old UPS brand as far as I can tell. Therefore many of the things that you can adjust on the new UPZ boots are not doable on the old UPS models.

To change springs you must remove the spring mechanism from the cuff, but you can only do that if you have removable cuffs, which I don't think you have.  Yours are riveted on.

Also 20 years ago there was only 1 type of tongue, no options available to change.  Even if we could determine what the flex was of that old tongue, there aren't any old tongues available in softer flex so can't do that either,

The Problem is that the boots have changed a lot over the years, and new parts are not standard after about 5-10 years.

Hope all that makes sense.

Dan

[slabber]

 

I've added preload top and bottom.  Presumably you can bottom out the springs but that would defeat the purpose...  I'll give this a whirl Saturday.  Dan suggested orange springs or possibly a tongue. 

For those that have switched to orange springs,  how much of a difference did it make?  

[lonbordin]

I played around a lot with Grey and black tongues, orange and white springs. 

I end up on black tongues and orange springs but I'm a really large person. 

On 2/3/2022 at 5:31 AM, patmoore said:

To change springs you must remove the spring mechanism from the cuff, but you can only do that if you have removable cuffs, which I don't think you have.  Yours are riveted on.

It's really no big deal to drill out the rivets and replace them with t-nuts and a screw from your local hardware store. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by lonbordin
Never really liked how the Grey's worked with the shell and cuff. Same model as your picture

[slabber]

thanks @lonbordin - good to know.  I presume the grey tongue was too stiff for cuff/shell perhaps and didn't flex together well perhaps?  

I'll try the preloaded springs and then consider going to orange as next step if needed.  Sounds like that should be sufficient given your experience.

 

[slabber]

Got my new orange springs - how do I get the old ones out? 

I've removed the nylock nut and washer already.  

[slabber]

I sorted spring swap in another thread 

 

[slabber]

On 2/4/2022 at 7:41 AM, lonbordin said:

I played around a lot with Grey and black tongues, orange and white springs. 

I end up on black tongues and orange springs but I'm a really large person. 

 

Any chance you still have those grey tongues @lonbordinand would consider selling?  

I've now swapped to orange springs, but not added preload yet.  I do see quite a bit of flex and i think it's cuff/tongue as I lean forward and flex the boot.  eg, I put my finger on the orange spring while I was flexing the boot but didn't really notice the spring compressing.  

I think it is the RC11 cuff / tongue that appears to be flexing.  And perhaps the RC12 cuff and RCR 'Race' cuff that are stiffer suggest the RC11 is definitely on the softer side.  Maybe why also why the stiffer grey tongue didn't jive well with the RC11 cuff?

[lonbordin]

30 minutes ago, slabber said:

Any chance you still have those grey tongues @lonbordinand would consider selling?  

I don't have those anymore.  The grey tongue is considerably stiffer/thicker than the rest of the UPZ shell and cuff plastic.  As such when you lean into the boots the tongue will deform the plastics around it before it starts to bend.

You're 85 pounds less than me and I'm going to guess shorter as well.  I've owned DeeLuxe 700s with the stock lean setup and 425 Pros with the green "stiff" tongues so I'm aware of the feel of those boots.  I'm guessing you are just not used to riding with any ability to articulate your ankle.  You are now able to articulate your ankle and you're thinking this is soft and soft is bad or at least soft is really different for you.

I would encourage you to try your newfound ankle "freedom" as you might find it allows your riding to improve or maybe you prefer the Nevin camp-
 

 

[slabber]

thanks @lonbordin- yeah, perhaps it's still an adjustment period.  I'll grab a video of how much flex I get next time out.  

I find I'm cranking down the cuff to try and mitigate what feels like shin bang but then my feet are going numb.  I'm probably thinking the movement is due to looseness in cuff but it's actually desirable flex (that I need to get used to still).  

In the meantime, I'll add preload to the orange spring.  I think as you've suggested, introducing a hard(er) plastic tongue amongst other parts of the interface that are intended to flex together can yield undesirable outcomes.

[slabber]

 

I added preload to the orange spring before riding today.  Helped a lot.  Still feels like a lot of flex on my toeside carves but I think I just need to get used to the new feel / flex. 

 

[lonbordin]

Ah, I was right... You're used to very little ankle articulation. 

Here's a video of someone going the other direction 

I'm not here to tell you one is better than the other... But I will suggest there's a happy medium that might lead to greater performance. Good luck. 

 

[Aracan]

Worth a try. Although I had to replace the third buckle (from the top) because it got busted from chafing against the second when I put down the knee in frontside turns. The new one doesn't look too hot anymore either.

[SunSurfer]

@AracanUPZ buckle layout becomes an issue when you increase rear boot ankle flex with the ankle buckle and the lower cuff buckle impinging on each other. The linked post shows the mods I made to my rear UPZ RC10 to improve heel hold down and to deal with the buckle impingement problem. If I was doing it again I would cut away slightly less cuff. 4 years on from the mod the rear boot continues to function as I intended.

 

[Aracan]

That is an interesting solution. Heel lift is not an issue for me, so maybe I'll just look into moving the second buckle a bit higher on the cuff.

[Corey]

Or get two of the new wire-style buckles. Ankle and next one higher. Fixed the wear/contact issue for me. 

 

 

[Aracan]

Good to know! I just had to replace the second buckle on the other boot, so I'll just see how long the other one lasts and then get a wire-style buckle.