Spring wax job not working. What's wrong?

[Mr_Orange]

So coming off a fresh hot wax on my snowboard with all the wax on scrapped off, everything starts to feels sluggish after 2-3 runs. I look at the base and there are patches of sticky wax build up (almost like the board wasn't scraped) on the base with a lot of dirt in it. The base feels so sticky that when i get on a box feature, the whole board comes to a full stop.

 

I go to the parking lot and scrape off all the patches. When i get back on the hill, it feels much better again. Boxes, no problem. All okay until 2-3 runs later when the patches gradually return. 

 

What am i doing wrong?

-I use Swix Bio Degradable Ski/Snowboard Warmer conditions Wax.

-I have a sintered base

-Waxing process: Hot scrape once, brush, wax, scrape, brush (all with same wax)

 

All my older boards had extruded bases and for that i was told to not wax at all during the spring. It worked well. Can you go unwaxed on sintered bases too in the spring? I remember reading somewhere that this wouldn't work for sintered.

 

I just got a new batch of wax this week. The Swix CH10 Hydrocarbon Wax. Maybe this'll work better.

 

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Structure is key.   If it is WET, try rilling. 

[lonbordin]

Since the patches gradually return are you sure you're not picking up some crap from the spring snow or the features you're riding?  

[slopestar]

Or rock the zardoz... Works great for me

[queequeg]

Structure is key.   If it is WET, try rilling. 

 

+1 ... if you have a very flat base with light or no structure, you're gonna be slow and spring wax won't help much. Also: riding on the side of the trail in the spring is a guaranteed way of collecting sap in your base. The shade keeps the snow a bit firmer but proximity to trees means you will get sappy.

Edited March 25, 2015 by queequeg

[michael.a]

Ditto for what Brian said, structure structure structure. Structure can be more important than wax sometimes. Especially on sintered bases, which supposedly build up heat faster and are even more sensitive to structure. Get a coarse grind, in fact a sign of a good shop is if you can talk shop with what kind of grind they recommend for your snow conditions. 

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Many years of spending late spring and summer on the Palmer Glacier has taught me allot of methods of dealing with high water content surface tension.  

Back in the day "Wet Jet" was the stuff.  Very expensive (95$ for a little square, still have some left)  but when I would FLY by the word class racers on the flats of the Mile , it was worth it.  They of course had a great deal more talent and tech support but I had local knowledge.   Dealing with pine on base.  Salt , slop etc.   A light rill will kick it loose when nothing else will.   I remember one day that it warmed so quick that the racers were getting stranded on the flats, they would come off the steeper pitches heavily salted and hit the flats on the Mile.  They would literally end up taking their skis off and walking.  As long as I could maintain speed I would fly by them like I was a water mellow seed pinched between your fingers.   Fun memories. 

 

I recall folks even using "Rain X" , which worked for a run or two.  It also lead to delams.   I have the boards to prove it's effect :)

 

Bryan

[kieran]

snake oil? you decide. http://liquiglide.com/

[lordmetroland]

Or rock the zardoz... Works great for me

 

OK, so searching for "zardoz" on Google summons an image of Sean Connery I will never un-remember.

[slopestar]

Not one of his more acclaimed roles... But the liquid rub on works great for a day if applied liberally. Carrying the puck is recommended

Edited March 26, 2015 by slopestar

[BlueB]

Structure. It is not enough to have it in the base you need to get the wax out if it. Wire brush instead of bristle.

As far as the wax goes, Scooby and me often frustrate other locals when we tell them we use plain white non-scented paraffin candle from Ikea... Works like a charm. :)

[rjnakata]

OK, so searching for "zardoz" on Google summons an image of Sean Connery I will never un-remember.

http://www.zardoznotwax.com/

 

I spoke with Paul Ramer, inventor of Zardoz in the 90's just before he got out of the gear business, and before he left this earth. 

That Zardoz is still around says something. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by rjnakata

[Mr_Orange]

I do try to scrape thoroughly, to the point where the base looks totally smooth and flat. Not sure if i can go even further than that without damaging the actual base. Is it possible to scrape off the actual base material with a plastic scraper or will i eventually hit  a point where you see nothing is coming off?

 

The dirt buildup is black. There is a long narrow path with close by trees that i go down. I do go to Big bear. Someone mentioned that was the worse when it comes to dirt buildup.

 

It could be that the box features are dirty but i do see other people doing them no problem.

 

My waxing process does sound identical to most of the ones mentioned (brushes and pads and all). A possibility is my brushes and scotchbrite pads aren't clean enough. Might be pushing wax dust back into board. I do use those waxing specific swix scotchbrite pads with the different abrasive levels.

 

As for the base structure thing, If you grind a spring structure into the base, does that structure only work well for the spring? Would you have to regrind a different structure into it again next season for colder weather conditions? My base does look like it has some sort of texture in it already. Like small debossed dimples everywhere.

 

A few people mentioned the swix bio wax is no good. Goin to try the CH10 instead.

[queequeg]

 

I do try to scrape thoroughly, to the point where the base looks totally smooth and flat.

 

...

 

As for the base structure thing, If you grind a spring structure into the base, does that structure only work well for the spring? Would you have to regrind a different structure into it again next season for colder weather conditions? My base does look like it has some sort of texture in it already. Like small debossed dimples everywhere.

 

 

 

If your base is totally smooth and flat: that is definitely not going to work in your favor in the spring. If you do have structure: you need to go at it with a wire brush. To remove all surface wax. You probably already know this but in case you don't: wax is meant to penetrate your base material - not sit on top of it; so if you have structure you need to remove it from the structure with a wire brush as BlueB suggested.

 

From what you are describing it may be time for you to get a grind, I've never seen a grind that I would describe as dimples.

 

Here is what proper base structure looks like — there are lots of different patterns, these are just a few:

 

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nwooHeGD8MA/hqdefault.jpg

 

I don't ride in the spring generally, but my understanding is: yes - for wet/old snow a more egressive structure is favorable, whereas for cold snow you want very light structure. With cold,cold snow you are fighting the abrasiveness of sharp, dry ice crystals, whereas with wet, soft snow you are trying to create hydrophobic conditions and promote capillary action (err ... I think) - two totally different objectives. I personally don't like to grind my boards very often, and so I just accept the fact that I will be slow in wet snow. If you ride year round and want good performance in all weather I figure the best way to go would to have separate decks with different grinds. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by queequeg

[Mike T]

+1 on structure.   I have a fairly aggressive cross-hatch structure ground into my alpine boards regardless of what the weather is like when I have the grind done... I find that for carving boards, a spring structure on cold dry snow works pretty well, but anything but a spring structure on wet snow works like s&it.   

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Spot on queequeg

[monodude]

I have had good results using a super cold temp wax. Hard to work with but works good for me. I have and believe in a good structured base also.

 

Don

 

Feed the Addiction...

[lordmetroland]

From what you are describing it may be time for you to get a grind, I've never seen a grind that I would describe as dimples.

For awhile, some stock Arbors had dimpled bases, allegedly for speed. My A-frame had one.

[digger jr]

I've got a very aggressive structure on my powder board (Undertaker) that came with the board when I bought it.

It works great. Still fast when it's cold and is usually the fastest stick on the mountain when it is wet or dense powder.

It also makes the coolest whirring/ humming sound when you are sliding sideways in the right conditions. I'm with Mike T as it makes sense to get an aggressive structure(within reason) because in normal temps the boards are plenty fast. I finally encountered very slushy snow this year and boy, it does get slow but enough of that.

Brian, what kind of riler have you used? I'd like to play around with that a bit.

Edited March 26, 2015 by digger jr

[teach]

My old Arbor and my F2 Respect board have that dimpled structure. It's called "structurn". Worked fine in most conditions, but once or twice it was like someone painted rubber cement on my base. I think it was very high water content conditions, and the dimples just acted like suction cups. I'll be curious to hear what winds up working for you. Maybe a ground-in structure leaving the dimples, just to break suction?

[SEJ]

Structure, Structure, Structure