Bobby Buggs Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Because Jörg is one of a kind in the scenery, as a human and as a PB carver and teacher. I still need to take some lessons from him (I have said that for many years now, did I? Shame on me.). I agree and have made the same mistake when I have been with him, he is so much fun to ride with we just ride and dont talk about technique or boards, more about has favorite buffalo wings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darko714 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 darko714, on 14 Jan 2015 - 2:44 PM, said: But, what Joerg and the Pureboarders have been able to beat into my thick skull is not so much the proper rotation, but getting rid of the evil counter-rotation. This has been a big help in carving on steeper sections of the hill and on ice, crud, and frozen cat tracks. Can you say a bit more about this? Where does the counter-rotation come in to play? ================================ When confronted with steep, icy, treacherous terrain, bad softbooter instincts (and fear) can come into play . . . counter-rotation results from initiating heelside turn, for example, by yanking the board across the fall line and rotating your torso to face down the fall line, rotating against the carve. The result is always to unweight the edge resulting in the dreaded "death chat" -- an uncontrolled chattery skid that ends either with an ungainly buttslide or a near stop. What the Pureboarding technique teaches (using their drills) is to initiate the edge with a torso turn into the carve. This quiets the chatter. It really works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Great topic Bobby!! Hope we get to ride this season. It was always fun at the rally. This is just IMHO: Mastery vs Generalist is my struggle (well lack of skill is a big one). I secretly want to combined all different styles to create my own that will work in anywhere/any conditon but see lack of skill. I would love to just master one style to begin with :-) Going to a PB clinic; I feel great!! but I get distracted easily(squirrel) by what other people are doing. It's much easier to blame: condition/gear/setup/style than to admit: After 8+ years and too much $$ to count; i am still just an advance beginner lol Again this is just my experience. I suck at alpine snowboard but I am having fun :-) race/angulation can be very "playful" as well: Love this video: www.youtube.com/embed/MC7HWs3kPjs David Edited January 20, 2015 by pow4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmatic Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) NickG:+100 for slopes bounded on either side by barbed wire.You wrote about this? Covered by snow such barbed wire looks soft, even if nails are 1/2 of an inch long, isn't it? Maybe it's cool talking about riding "beyond the limits" even if never coming close to any limit. Rather to "get low" we can get close. Closer to things which give us the limits and show us the way. That trench is not from me. It shows only things which is having-fun-as-usual by snowboarders there over in good old Europe. Coming back to the boot discussions here. Riding a stiffer boot on front foot and a softer one on back foot is and was just normal like ever. Does anyone remember what was supplied with the old SB Raichle hardboots? Each pair of hardboots are comming with two sets of tongues, except the softest models. One set was stiffer, one set was softer. Sometimes they had been different in colorway. Raichle had about 5 kind of flex for SB tongues. So any rider goofy, or regular was able to put the softer tongue to the back boot and the stiffer one to the front boot. The leg behind was able to flex more. That is what we need riding snowboard with hardboots! Same on Raichle RAB spring system. Each RAB set was delivered with totaly 3+3 springs (wire-diameters of 3.5mm/4mm/5mm). Then Raichle became Kneissl-and-Friends (Austria, later Deeluxe). No longer 2 sets of tongues on each pair of Raichle SB hardboots since than. You know, Kneissl is a ski brand. Skiers don't need a softer flex boot on the one foot and a stiffer one on the other foot. And for to reduce costs (and rise price), hardboots we get since than comes only with one single set of tongue. Well, many usere here refeers about Pureboarding to Joerg Egli. In case of him you should pay attention to his age. He seems to be an old man. So his state of health can affect to which boots and angles of bindings he ride. Just for not get in pain, or without run out of power during his ride. I didn't watch all that PB videos, but it seems hardbooting basics like cliff-jumps on raceboards became out of his reach. Coming back to binding discussion. Take care and avoid to turn your front bindings to much to the nose of your board. Side force to your knees exceed to a dangourus level. Even on a wide board. There can be overload of crucial ligament if riding this way the whole day, even on heavy or wet snow. And than this Burton to Ibex bindings, they are sometimes aweful. This former Burton race-plate binders had been developed for to fit burton hardboots in perfection. You know the Burton Reactor, Furnance and so on. On other boots they can be a desaster. Binding manufacturers like Fritschi, SnowPro, Drake, Nidecker, Proflex-F2 took care about all hardboot designs on market, maybe Burton not. Many time if I open my front boot binding the perfect-to-Burton-boots-lever doesn't open full and it doesn't flip away as like on other bindings. The heel-bail is comming closer to the center of binders (they flex back!). Instead I can step-out of the plate, the board do flip-flap and let me hooked-in on the heel. This is realy a danger thing to crash to the ground, much more than any barbed wire on either side of a slope. Beside this, Burton-to-Ibex bindings remains (beside other small amount binding manufactors) the only one binders coming with full and wide metal plates as a junction to the boots-sole. All other binding makers switched since decades to non-metal interfaces. They know it well why. Burton-to-Ibex binders icy-up very fast itself and your boot soles too. Closing force of lever becomes a very variable thing. Maybe one of the reason why Pureboarding Joerg use them not fasten too tight. Even on back foot whitch forced you to open and entry bindings many time a days. Edited January 20, 2015 by snowmatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Pow4ever: I secretly want to combined all different styles to create my own Best quote of the year. Heck decade! This is my opinion as well. Go try as many new styles and methods as you can and then take and barrow from each and make the style that works for you. I honestly think this will make you a better all around rider. I see to many "one dimensional" carvers at SES. Sure they get good at it but, then it seems they just stop learning and stick ti what they are good at. Diversity is what will make our sport grown. Imagine if all hardbooters on hill just did one "homogenized" style? It would be VERY boring after a while. If everyone just made race turns, or there where a hill full of riders simulating Joerg's style, or all everyone ever did was extreme carve, etc there would be little growth in the sport and it would stall. It does make me sigh a little when I hear someone say "this is how you should do it". Says who? As carvers if we followed that rule we would all still be on softboots. We are the group that does NOT do what they tell us. That said, I really like what Joerg does and his energy is infectious. I just put up the clinic schedule HERE and we have two clinic by Joerg during the SES week. I invite anyone there to come join and try a different style and then make your own choice as to what you take from it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted January 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Wrong Island, I was asking about you when I was at the Beast. Miss you bro. You dont suck like you say, Far from it. Hit me up and let me know if a Beast trip is in the works for you soon. Thanks for that great Vid, I know THAT style Edited January 21, 2015 by Bobby Buggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Well, many usere here refeers about Pureboarding to Joerg Egli. In case of him you should pay attention to his age. He seems to be an old man. So his state of health can affect to which boots and angles of bindings he ride. Just for not get in pain, or without run out of power during his ride. I didn't watch all that PB videos, but it seems hardbooting basics like cliff-jumps on raceboards became out of his reach. Dude, just stop the slander. Please. It discredits your other points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Maybe it's cool talking about riding "beyond the limits" even if never coming close to any limit. You should know, since no one else has talked about it, at least not in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted January 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Snowmatic, your personal vendetta or what ever your issue may be has become nothing short of distasteful. Perhaps its time you excuse yourself from my thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmatic Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Bobby Buggs: .. to share some insight to confuse me just a bit more before I goYou are asking for insights?corey_dyck: .. just stop the slander ..I think You missunderstood me. Don't think I'm evil. I was writing that as serious. Let me explain.Some raceboarder get older and older, so they get maybe heavier, but they loose power, they loose flexibilty and reactivity. This is normal if on age. They don't realize to be more and more disconnected from the basics of racboarding and even from snowboarding at all. How can we recognize that: - seek for good action pics on Alpine boards today, they are hard to find - there is an "Over 50 club" thread and an "Over 65 Club" thread too. - there are "Heard It In The Lift Line" thread and so on. You know, hardbooters which ride close to the basics of raceboarding and which stay connected to snowboarding don't have to answer any odd question on lift line. They are followed by freeriders and freestylers on softboots, which try to keep up the speed. Even if that softbooters are locals from World famous snowboards resorts. On lift line and on lift they don't talk from your board and your boots. They talk about the lines we ride, the sprays we do, the moves we do and how we handle cliff-jumps and similar obstacles. Watch this pic from Burton Alp carving snowboard. I ask: How do you think he proceed to ride-on without leaving the border of slope? The basics of raceboarding does matter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbvt Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 You know, hardbooters which ride close to the basics of raceboarding and which stay connected to snowboarding don't have to answer any odd question on lift line. They are followed by freeriders and freestylers on softboots, which try to keep up the speed. Even if that softbooters are locals from World famous snowboards resorts. On lift line and on lift they don't talk from your board and your boots. They talk about the lines we ride, the sprays we do, the moves we do and how we handle cliff-jumps and similar obstacles. That may be the case where you ride, I don't know, but in most of North America (where this forum is based), alpine snowboarding is so rare that most people on the mountain (including other snowboarders) have no idea what it is. Hence the "heard it in the liftline" thread -- some of the comments and questions we get can be very funny. --mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilux Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) I was writing that as serious. Some raceboarder get older and older, so they get maybe heavier, but they loose power, they loose flexibilty and reactivity. This is normal if on age. They don't realize to be more and more disconnected from the basics of racboarding and even from snowboarding at all. You know, hardbooters which ride close to the basics of raceboarding and which stay connected to snowboarding don't have to answer any odd question on lift line. They are followed by freeriders and freestylers on softboots, which try to keep up the speed. Even if that softbooters are locals from World famous snowboards resorts. On lift line and on lift they don't talk from your board and your boots. They talk about the lines we ride, the sprays we do, the moves we do and how we handle cliff-jumps and similar obstacles. Therein lies the rub... Now you are suggesting that super-awesome Joerg among many other amazing "older" riders are disconnected from the basics of snowboarding? Quite the contrary. We ALL adapt and evolve with our riding style/technique as we age, changing body type, from injuries, from equipment changes, the people we meet and ride with. More importantly we all have lots to share and learn from each other because of these adaptations and learning/adjustment curves. And skiers/snowboarders in lift line and on lift always first talk about my board, bindings, boots. I'm sorry, cliff jumps? Please, make this stop....someone. P.S. Sorry to perpetuate this Bobby Edited January 21, 2015 by Hilux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) You know, hardbooters which ride close to the basics of raceboarding and which stay connected to snowboarding don't have to answer any odd question on lift line. And precisely how is the guy next to you in the lift-line to know if you are "close to the the basics of raceboarding" or not? He sees your unusual equipment, he asks a question, that's it. Sometimes the questions are funny, that's why we have that thread. If the guy in the lift-line has seen me ride and bothers to comment, it's always positive. I have not once heard "you are old, fat and inflexible, so I am not impressed with your feeble attempts to ride that funny-looking gear." Edited January 21, 2015 by Neil Gendzwill 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Maybe we should combine the two issues and create a new "Couldn't Hear it in the Liftline without the Aid of my Ear Trumpet" thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmatic Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yes, the comments and questions on "Heard It In The Lift Line" are realy funny to read. I was laughing a lot. @Hilux cliff jumps? Why not! Pro jumps? Why not! Every rider can ride and have fun as he want, thats all-right. Otherwise hardbooting turnes more and more to one of the most boring sport on snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilux Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Every rider can ride and have fun as he want, thats all-right. Except for old guys... I'm out... Edited January 21, 2015 by Hilux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 after 30 years...could this be a reason for the Silver Surfer to return ? to help those who have become Bored with their Carving ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsdvn Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 well this has certainly taken an odd turn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidad62 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Mods... hellllp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 We're watching intently... Please, no more negative comments about board makers or people you have one picture of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west carven Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 howdy snowmatic please post video of your young self ripping... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Sandman Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) In any event Jeorg is having next weekend 1/24 through 1/26 a clinic on the East Coast http://forums.bomberonline.com/index.php?/topic/40688-pureboarding-in-central-ny-24-jan-26-jan-2015%E2%80%8E/ and I need all the help I can get :P http://vimeo.com/16403731 Edited January 22, 2015 by Mister Sandman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafcadio Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 In any event Jeorg is having next weekend 1/24 through 1/26 a clinic on the East Coast http://forums.bomberonline.com/index.php?/topic/40688-pureboarding-in-central-ny-24-jan-26-jan-2015%E2%80%8E/ Sandman, are you going??? If so, I will see you there! There is also a Pure Boarding event happening the following weekend, Jan 31-Feb 2 at Mont Blanc near Montreal: http://forums.bomberonline.com/index.php?/topic/40352-pureboarding-2015/?hl=%2Bmont+%2Bblanc Joerg and crew will be at both of these events in addition to SES in Aspen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Sandman Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Yes ! I will be there. Driving up from NY Sunday morning at 4am ... now Montreal is a "little" too far :P Edited January 22, 2015 by Mister Sandman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpalka Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I enjoyed reading the thread. Before saying anything else, Joerg is the man and the machine -- and it's always a great fun experience to ride with him and his groups! So yes, I'm definitely a fan. I rode a Pureboarding TWO board for a season, and it had great edge hold. Very good board. But as I ride in Colorado where the snow is good, I found it a bit stiff and I switched back to a longer softer board that has similar width. My boards of choice for the past 4-5 years have been a Prior 4WD and an Alpinepunk Superswede. Those work really well with the conditions we have and the kind of riding I enjoy. My stance varies, but usually I ride with these angles: 60-65 front and 35-40 back. Among many things I like about Pureboarding is that the rider rotates into the turn -- I think that Patrice and Jacques would call it "driving the board". As the body rotates over the board, the edge change comes about naturally and smoothly. Whether you want to keep your hands out or in is purely a question of preference... With the wider angle spread I end up with a lot more freedom, and can turn my torso to be parallel with the board, or even slighly angled towards the tail. Comes in handy when riding switch. But the main thing is -- I want lots of freedom to move my body, and the Pureboarding setup and style work well that way. I also ride with softer Raichle boots, and Sidewinders with the softest yellow pads, so all these components work well together. For me, that is a very different setup than what I started with -- riding narrower (sub-20cm waist) boards, with stiff step-in bindings (TD2 in my case), locked boots. I could hardly move anything below my knees, and so driving the board had to be done with all the big muscles higher up. The softer the gear went, the easier it was for me to drive the board with different groups of muscles, depending on what I wanted to achieve at the time. I love the fact that when I rode with Joerg, the whole mountain was a playground. No complaints about powder and lack of groom :) We surfed 16" powder, hiked up to Highlands Bowl, rode on very icy late spring snow (where the groom tore my clothes up), it's all good and it's all fun. I used to have a bunch of movies on youtube from the various Aspen trips, but here is one that was a lot of fun -- a [never?] groomed run on Ajax, steep and to the skier's left of Copper Bowl. Don't know what it's called, but it was choppy and ugly, and yet so much fun to ride :) The Pureboarding way of teaching beginners makes a ton of sense -- the arms rotate, driving the torso, making the edge changes almost automatic. People get the feel of carving pretty quickly, and it feels very natural. Anyways, my two cents. If you get a chance to take a clinic with Joerg, go for it! tom. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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