Who rides the "Pureboarding" style

[Bobby Buggs]

In my quest for technique and style versatility Im going to take this Thursday and try to ride the Pureboarding style. Im going to leave my Coilers in the car and go full Pureboard. I want to see if I can incorporate this style into my Ice coast angulation style. Perhaps I already know it and just dont realize it but I think it would be good to have in my arsenal.   Conditions at the Beast should be prime for this attempt and I have Mark/Dingbat chomping at the bit to see me crash unlimited times

Anyone here done this recently care to share some insight to confuse me just a bit more before I go 

[Aracan]

I was at two PB weekends over the last two years. In a nutshell, there are 3 components that make up the basics of the PB style:

 

1. Pre-rotation. I.e. your upper body (including the hips) rotate in the direction you want to turn, then you wait for the board to follow. When practicing this, your upper body should ideally be parallel to the board on the front side (-), perpendicular to the board on the backside (+). 

 

2. Weight distribution. Basically, you weight the front foot in heelside turns, the rear foot in frontside turns. This prevents you from going over the handlebars.

 

3. Watch your hands. When riding in a compact position to master demanding slopes, your outside hand should go toward the front of your front boot on the heelside (anywhere from cuff to edge under the binding, depending on how aggressively you ride); and toward the rear cuff of your front boot on the toeside. This helps to maintain the correct position. If you wash out on a heelside, your outside hand was probably in the air, waving goodbye to your edgehold 

 

4. A wide board. This is not just for versatility (one man - one board, no matter the conditions), but also to allow really low binding angles for the rear binding - below 40°, if your feet are small enough. The front is set 12-20° steeper. The low rear angle, together with the PB style, creates a very strong frontside when you drive your rear knee towards the snow.

 

 

It is also important to note that the rotation is not as pronounced when you are riding close to the snow. When doing drifted-turn drills or upright turns on easier slopes, your torso and board should alternately form fully realized + and - signs. When riding more aggressively, the rotation is not as easily spotted, but it is still there. 

 

Edited to add something important I had forgotten.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Aracan

[nelsdvn]

Following this thread as my PB Bastard arrived last week...

[Bobby Buggs]

Im pretty sure I have #3 down but Im used to staying compact to stay over the edge not stretching out in the turn

[Aracan]

There is nothing wrong with that 

The guys at Pureboarding strive to equip us disciples with tools for any situation at the mountain, not just to teach laydowns. 

[Bobby Buggs]

[Guest]

Bobby, I have pretty much abandoned the angulation style. Sometimes you have to use it on narrow slopes, and it's still in my muscle memory for emergencies, but otherwise I think if you give the  rotation styles a shot and really stick with it then you'll see how powerful it is for freecarving, even on ice.  Obviously it sucks for racing, but I am continually amazed by how hard one can carve by essentially just lining your body up with the angle of the board and simply just standing on it. I've primarily been studying the EC/swiss style but I think PB is similar in some ways.

 

I ride on the crappiest slopes with icy conditions and narrow trails and tons of crowds and YES this stuff works.

 

Biggest things I would say to pay attention to:

 

(1) if they make you do drills using rotation but NOT carving, i.e., slarving or just skidding, DO those exercises and really focus on what your board is doing. Sometimes I go back to easy greens and just use rotation to switch edges, and I wish someone had forced me to do those skidding exercises early.

 

(2) the other major major part of this is making sure you're 50/50 in your weight distribution, and that's not always intuitive, and can change during the carve. If you're skidding out on toeside remember your knees but also play with how far for/aft your upper body is over the board. If you're not 50/50 then on ice/steeps the carve is gone. For me I was losing toeside constantly until I just tried leaning forward more - suddenly now they stick.

 

(3) cross-under turns (deeply bent knees during the transition) is the only way I've found to survive narrow trails with rotation styles.

 

Take pics/vids and I'd love to hear how it went.

Edited January 13, 2015 by NickG

[Aracan]

+1 for rotation drills on easy slopes, however boring that may seem.

 

I am not sure about the 50/50 weight distribution. As I already mentioned, I find toesides with weight on the rear foot work very well. YMMV.

[Bobby Buggs]

I have heard before on heelside weight on front heel, Toeside weight on rear toe. Last year at ECES I was doing some PB laps with Dan Lambert. One thing I got from that was to avoid losing my toeside carve on real steeps to point my rear knee out, Im at 51* on the back foot. That made my board stick on all slopes. I would get lazy leaving that knee at the 51 angle and pointing it out really made a difference. So I think I may have some of this tech in my pocket already since I can slide my board on a heelside and re engage it  mid turn. Im looking forward to this attempt to switch things up a bit.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Bobby Buggs

[Bobby Buggs]

Whats the diff between EC and Pureboard?

Aracan the 50-50 thing is gonna be interesting on one of those Pureboards, I usually ride a 177 Coiler so theres a ton of board to cover up mistakes 

[Hans]

The hips stay were they are with the ec style. With the pb style not.

[RCrobar]

Hi Hans

Surfing, skateboarding, ECing and Pureboarding have the same rotational foundation/roots (hips included).  The board, boot, binding set up for EC and PB have different goals and way of attacking the mountain, but the foundation of the technique is the same.

 

I.e. your upper body (including the hips) rotate in the direction you want to turn, then you wait for the board to follow. When practicing this, your upper body should ideally be parallel to the board on the front side (-), perpendicular to the board on the backside (+).

 

Cheers
Rob

Edited January 13, 2015 by RCrobar

[lafcadio]

I am not sure about the 50/50 weight distribution. As I already mentioned, I find toesides with weight on the rear foot work very well. YMMV.

 

+1!  Aracan is correct.  Joerg always goes over this at his clinics.  On frontside (toeside) turns, weight is on the back toes. For backside (heelside) weight is on the front heel.  

 

I also think this is pretty standard carving technique, even if using angulation style.  I've heard this repeated at just about every clinic I took at SES and ECES regardless of who was teaching: Corey, Iian, Joerg, whoever.     

[Hilux]

+1!  Aracan is correct.  Joerg always goes over this at his clinics.  On frontside (toeside) turns, weight is on the back toes. For backside (heelside) weight is on the front heel.  

 

I also think this is pretty standard carving technique, even if using angulation style.  I've heard this repeated at just about every clinic I took at SES and ECES regardless of who was teaching: Corey, Iian, Joerg, whoever.     

 

Exactly what I've learned too. I've been taught the 70/30 "rule" by Ian and it's a great internal visual tool.

 

Toeside - 70% weight on back toes

 

Heelside - 70% weight on front heel

Edited January 14, 2015 by Hilux

[dingbat]

 

 

Heelside - 70% weight on front heel

 

 

Ryan, With the PB style it feels closer to 100% on the front heel. Crazy how well it hooks up.

Edited January 14, 2015 by dingbat

[snowboardfast]

Thank you all for the reminders on weight placement during toeside and heelside turns. I will work on this Wensday when I ride. I have been riding the Pureboarding stance this season and like it. I still have lots of things to work on for carving and all mountain riding but I always try to make improvements always. The nice thing about all mountain boards is that the versatility is there. I did not have any problems trying the stance as I used a shorter board-F2 158 breezer. It also is wider and similar in dimensions to the Pureboarding boards. I have ridden shorter boards before and still like a shorter board for all mountain riding. The stance I think is great. I am going to demo a pureboarding board at ses. I hope I  will like it. My goal is to stop riding race boards and only have 2 boards a Pureboarding and a Dupraz which I already have. The Dupraz I only ride on big powder days although it can be used all of the time.  I have not spent much time on the metal raceboards this year. They are heavy and only good for groomed snow. I am working on carving better on the all mountain boards and it is more fun because I can ride moguls as well and the carve all in the same run. I think you can make any type of turn you want to with the pureboarding stance.

[snowboardfast]

The other thing I am going to try wensday is softer boots again Deluxe lemans. The pureboarding riders are using softer boots.

[Aracan]

 

 

Whats the diff between EC and Pureboard?

 

The EC style is about laydowns and the technique required to get them down pat. 

Pureboarding is about a technique which is adaptable for anything you might encounter, from moguls to pow to laydowns.

[Beckmann AG]

I also think this is pretty standard carving technique, even if using angulation style.  I've heard this repeated at just about every clinic I took at SES and ECES regardless of who was teaching: Corey, Iian, Joerg, whoever.     

 

 

Sounds like someone missed a clinic or two along the way.

 

Exactly what I've learned too. I've been taught the 70/30 "rule" by Ian and it's a great internal visual tool.

 

Toeside - 70% weight on back toes

 

Heelside - 70% weight on front heel

 

 

This is the default pressure load that the board 'sees' from the rider on account of a 'sideways' stance when the rider makes no effort to equalize that pressure from tip to tail.  

If a regular-footed rider rode a goofy asym, that arrangement might be optimal.  

For a symmetric board (equal sidecut, core, layup etc.), not so much, given that asymmetric pressure distribution along the board's length affects turn radius/grip on the respective edge.

 

Taken as described, the heel side turn would initiate rapidly, with a tighter radius than the toeside, (up to the point of stall/washout).  The toeside would be much slower to come around, the opening radius trailing off closer to the fall line, rather than hooking the arc across the hill.  

 

For the average/intermediate rider, this  generally equates to a gradual increase in speed, as momentum gradually cascades from one turn to the next.

 

If 70/30h,30/70t works for you, great.  Run with it.  

From a mechanical standpoint it's not entirely rational, and you might find greater performance elsewhere.  

More often than not, when a rider shows up lamenting their inability to ride well on more difficult terrain, the immediate problem is where they stand on the board, and how that weight distribution affects other movement options.

 

Presumably, the Pureboard line is constructed to maximize the associated movement theory, and for that application, unequal  toeside/heelside pressure distribution should be an asset rather than a liability.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Beckmann AG

[snowmatic]

Whats the diff between EC and Pureboard?

EC-style and Pureboarding are just a small slice out of The Rider System. You can call it a sub-style of general snowboarding and Alpine snowboard carving.

Both style are comming out of that school, but are a free interpretation and not bounded into the organisation (no certification as a snowboard school).

Courses of rider System are listet here

"Basic Courses" are evident, just to learn all the moves you need. And it takes time and some many more exercise days. Even if you start there thinking you are an experienced rider.

After that you need to join the "Allround Courses", which takes again time and more exercise days again.

Finaly you can book "Carve & Speed courses" for to get a good pack of basics for snowboarding on Alpine snowboards.

Please note: carving up to speed like on highways with car is part of it.

Lessons in EC-style and Pureboarding are a less and an uncompleted way to learn something about carving with Alpine snowboards. But it let unexperienced carvers proceed fast to do some great turns in less education time.

EC-style and Pureboarding remains a very specific and limited small slice of carving a snowboard on snow.

Together with praising the special carving boards, it gives you the opporttunity to do photo-shoot turns on easy slopes as fast as possible.

What does it mean? Let me give You some example:

Whach this carver here:

He seems to imitate the style of Pureboarding (clothing, turns he did before and so on). But due to his, I would say average/intermediate skill only, he wasn't able at all to do cut some nice trenches there. Remark: There are limitations of slope-width by a surface-lift and trees of forest. A rusty razor-wire help to not entry the forest, as you can see on background.

On that part of slope experienced raceboarders do 180° EC-like turns on older F2 Speedster slalom raceboards (tilt the photo to the right to see steepness). No problem for that, but skill should reach higher than only to have a small slice of education I wrote above. No protections against rusty razor-wire and T-bar lift are needed - just trust to your skill and to your good board. Yes, the surface was very hard but had grip. Maybe that board he rode (don't know which label) doesn't hold edge enough for cool turns, like F2 Speedster SL perform.

Now-a-days many rider buy-in EC-style and Pureboarding-style by hardware (specific snowboard, like Swoard or #Two and so on).

It might be popular now to stick in your hyper-carvingboard to snow and feel well.

Buying such boards are even cheaper in price / taking less time than joining all the courses I wrote on introduction.

What we can see on slope you see here (it is that balck Swoard on high angulation):

Subject to change: I'm not well informed yet, but doesn't Swoard come in red color? Black Swoard must be new, or one of any copy. On 100% crop I can read something about like Metal-Acc(eleration?)-Matrix.

For me that style looks weird, but maybe that black color Swoard need that special and new to me kind of carving-style.

[Hilux]

^snowmatic

 

That carver you are referring to in the first photo IS Pureboarding...Joerg    

Edited January 14, 2015 by Hilux

[michael.a]

If I remember correctly (a big IF) the '70/30' concept is meant to be more of an exercise to correct unbalanced (commonly intermediate) riders who often overload the nose on a toeside carve and sit way too far back on a heelside, frequently experiencing chatter or unable to control speed on steep/icy terrain.

 

I found that shifting your weight forwards/backwards is more dependent on the type of snow you're riding on than anything else.

[Guest]

+100 for slopes bounded on either side by barbed wire.  

 

"oh, honey! Before you go - remember, don't mess up! If you do... YOU'LL DIE"

[hachis]

SWOARD are comming in red AND in black.

 

Depending on what kind of board you buy ... EC >>> RED  EC PRO >>> BLACK

[Hilux]

If I remember correctly (a big IF) the '70/30' concept is meant to be more of an exercise to correct unbalanced (commonly intermediate) riders who often overload the nose on a toeside carve and sit way too far back on a heelside, frequently experiencing chatter or unable to control speed on steep/icy terrain.

 

I found that shifting your weight forwards/backwards is more dependent on the type of snow you're riding on than anything else.

 

The 70/30 concept was brought up at a session ride to "reset" the riders and be mindful of weight distribution between your feet and consequently your edges...especially during those "off days" .  I understood this to be different (both mentally and in physical application) from shifting body weight forwards to the nose and backwards to the tail....kinda the same but different.  At least it's different in how I visual it and apply in practice.  When things don't feel quite right and I'm not hooking up in certain conditions, I have a small mental checklist I go through and the 70/30 is on it.  

 

Agree re: your comment on shifting weight forward/backwards in variable terrain/snow conditions.  You'd eat it if weight towards nose in soft.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Hilux