glenn Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 O.k....I had the Gilmour bias thread marked on the old forum but can't seem to find it on a search of the new forum aside from mention of it...Anybody have a location/copy of that disertation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwmaron Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Try this - in Google search for 'Gilmour Bias site:forums.bomberonline.com' Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted December 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Thanks Russ...Don't know if it's something with my browser (that changes default search engines for no apparent reason) or what, but I can't seem to find that tutorial... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted December 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 O.k. think I got it...Pasted that search on Bomber site and looks like it came up...Thanks man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Does it return "really likes Madd"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursle Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 Every time I try to access it I keep getting directed to a paypal page that wants me to pay 10$ for a video of a 360 on a snowboard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 Does it explain how he is working on a project that is going to power the world? Oh wait, is it the carving body armor project? Maybe it's the high end audio review articles that don't exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted December 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 No, not "likes Madd" What I got when I pasted "Gilmour Bias site:forums.bomberonline." was a discussion with comments by Gilmour about Gilmour bias, what it is and how to set it up...Interesting stuff at least on carpet. From the comments about it, I'm assuming it'll translate to better on snow performance...Lord knows I can use that :^) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimcheen Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) Does it explain how he is working on a project that is going to power the world? Oh wait, is it the carving body armor project? Maybe it's the high end audio review articles that don't exist? Does it return "really likes Madd"? Every time I try to access it I keep getting directed to a paypal page that wants me to pay 10$ for a video of a 360 on a snowboard. Best laugh I've had in awhile. Thanks Edited December 26, 2014 by jimcheen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted December 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 Well, I guess the humor was lost on me...I was just looking for a little help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) humor around here can often have rather obscure roots I laughed Edited December 25, 2014 by b0ardski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 Well, I guess the humor was lost on me...I was just looking for a little help...Don't take it the wrong way, it's just a little good-natured ribbing of Mr. Gilmour's past comments/actions. I LOLed! The gist of it was that you get more direct pressure from your front heel and from your rear toes onto their respective edges. Some think it's awesome, some aren't that excited over it. I run the opposite so I can run lower boot angles without overhang. I center my toes and heels over both edges, which ends up having my front foot moved forward and my rear foot moved rearward. Try both and see what you prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted December 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 Thanks Corey...I don't know the guy other than his bias theory so, like I say, the humor was lost on me... Kind of hate this new equipment stuff...Have to basically start over to get back to where you were originally...Ugh...I think I went with your option with my Head boots but now that I got these new UPZ's I'm kind of at square one again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 You may have also heard about the 'Fuego' method. See this: http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7172 I like that one. That's only applicable once you're really leaning the board over though. You can have quite a bit of overhang when you're getting started. I've noticed on my UPZ boots that the front foot's upper/cuff buckles hit the snow before the heel - don't just check the heels! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted December 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 Thanks Corey...I'm familiar with that test...funny stuff and useful at the same time...I get the humor part of that one... :^) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) You guys are funny. not in the hah ha way.. but in the... "what a bunch of dickheads" way... JK! Anyway.... Gilmour Bias goes like this... In my little warped mind (warped like a curved edge on the snow) You want the snow "to see" a perfectly curved arc made by a flexed board edge on the snow. So if you were to pressure both toes evenly then since at high stance angles both toes are far forward on the board... the two pressure points if averaged would put the point of force of flexion forward of the middle of the sidecut of the board (Assuming that the sidecut aligned with the center between the two points of edge contact front and rear. And with the heels... the reverse is true. (though your front heel is almost perfectly situated... which is why you should put like 70% of your weight over your front heel for heel side initiation) So if you evenly pressure both toes... you get quick toe-side initiation And of you evenly pressure both heels you get tossed way into the back seat with slower turn initiation. Which is why som many people have issues with carving heels without sideslipping first. The board wants to see certain things to work properly.. ASYM designs attempt to fix some of this but introduce other issues. So as with many turning objects... the weight should be forward in the beginning of a turn and naturally begins to shift rearward towards the finish of a turn. fore and aft weighting for the heel and toe could not possibly be more different IMHO. And it is completely counter intuitive at first. When I first started snowboarding..... back in 1983... I did nearly everything wrong. I and my forward lean set wrong, I had my angles and offset opposite,and I started and finished my turns wrong.I just muscled through it. I stuck with my wrong technique for at least 6 years....until I felt I had to rethink everything. Then I got much better. Applying too much weight forward for too long can result in a tail washout. So the key is... how should you apply pressure from either your toes or heels such that the board will do two important things. 1. Have the "perceived weight" be forward at a certain point of the board for turn initiation and end up at a predetermined "end point" rearward at the turn finish. 2. Flex the board into a near perfect arc CONTINUALLY during this process so that the edge can cut cleanly and effectively through the snow- deepening the trough, and causing less chatter. If you ride aboard that is very narrow....you might want to run reverse Gilmour bias...because if the board is very bnarrow your heels and toes can't really be far from the edges. If you run a normal width board for your foot size or wider (because you want some more versatility out of your boards to ride deeper snow and not want to be stuck on a submarine of a narrow carving board in 5 inches of snow) you probably want to use "Gilmour Bias". Running "Gilmour bias" does a few things. 1. It puts a section of your heel that you are capable of balancing on while still on one foot directly over the edge for more focus of power into the snow. 2. It puts a section of your rear foot over the edge relieving your rear ankle of leverage and makes you more powerful topside. 3. It shifts the angle of your hips to become more "square " with the front of the board enabling you to face downhill easier- giving your better vision into your blind spot. 4. Your feet end up slightly offset and not with each centered on the same "centerline of the board" this enhances your balance. For instance if you were to look at someone practicing martial arts- they do not have both feet straight ahead. 5. This makes you feel less "tippy" when getting jostled over uneven snow terrain at speed and adds stability. 6. Heel-side traverses become easy as you just slouch over your front heel and the board will turn slightly to the heel side (no more quad burn) 7. toe-side traverses become effortless as all you do is slouch over the rear 3rd and 4th toes and the board will turn slightly to the toe side. (no more calf muscle burn) So you can either wonder why it works or just do it. So move your rear heel to allow for slight overhang off the heeled edge of the board.. remember if you ride well and with authority... yo will form a trench... such that your heel might not hit the snow- but be slightly under the plane of the snow surface in the trench. You don't have to put the board over 90 degrees and set for no heel drag... first off.. you won't likely heel it over more than say 50 degrees... and very unlikely more than 70 degrees. If you go too far... it will be hard to get back to your toe edge from a heel side. And Move your rear toe out to allow for some overhang over the toe side edge... realistically most riders when they get the hang of the heel edge will carve with higher heel edge angles than toe angles... you want your 3rd and 4th toes to hang slightly over that edge. You should have slightly more toe overhand than heel overhand because the trench by your rear toe would be deeper than the trench made by the front heel. So you have slightly more clearance for the toe... as more of the board cutting edge has had time to cut deeper into the snow. Now to turn it becomes a simple transfer laterally and somewhat diagonally across the board - akin to a stepping motion- it allows for very quick edge transfers- even across wider boards. The turning dynamics are completely different for heel and toe... for dynamic turns as opposed to what they would teach you in snowboard school.. it is a different style of riding. careful adjustment of heel side bias can allow for grip or slip in a turn to moderate grab of the edge- very useful with soft boot set ups and softer flexing boards as shown here. You don't have to leave a clean arc... you can also chance your arc shape within the turn-- here I flatten the "belly of the arc" to not overload the board's ability to hold an edge at speed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F79nxoS8CU8 Heelside bias is adjusted so I can release or engage the edge on heel side so as not to overlaid the flex of the board with too much force. Too much bias and the board would break free at lower tilt angles, too little bias and I would not be able to carefully and "mildly" unset the edge to keep the board from grabbing too much and causing overwhelming chatter. its a fine adjustment- where too much by 1/4-1/8 " inch either way can completely blow the set up for laying it over at speed. Detuning helps but is not enough at these speeds.. the bias has to be spot on.. After a board tune it can take me about 3-5 tries to get my bias nailed for softies.. its easier for hard boots since there is less boot deformation and hence less guesswork. Or just buy a more expensive longer and stiffer metal board with a plate and only ride perfectly groomed snow... and let the gear do the work instead of you. to me-- that's sorta lame. but sometimes I like being lame too. The way I look at it... If I can ride a piece of crap outdated park bench of a split tail powder board with soft boots and bindings with broken parts.....at high speed carving. I must be doing something correct ....no? The only thing correct on that set up is my stance and bias. The board is shit, the boots are shot and cracked- the bindings are falling apart. I'm no 20 year old ... not particularly strong for my size, so believe me... it's not like I'm some sort of athlete. If I were a stronger athlete, I'd just muscle though it... but I'm not. and instead of training my whole life for a technique that only works if you are a strong 23 year old pro on the circuit... hell I wasn't even strong at 23. I'd rather learn a technique that will allow me to ride like this when I am 70. So for those who feel I am completely wrong... take my powder board set up ...out for a spin and carve it better than I do- film it with your iPhone. After I see that, I'm all ears to your input. for people that have ridden with me- had their gilmour bias adjusted ,seen me carve 360 carves.. etc. and learned how to present the snow with a proper curved edge...they know, felt it, understood, and did it. everyone else can just think it's utter nonsense ...until they try it. wonder WTF it works.. but why? If you wanna go fast- carve, and rip around like the hill is YOUR BITCH, you have to understand a few things about force. If F=MA or anything remotely close to it. Then you'll realize that once you faster than about 12-18mph... all the muscles in your body working in unison can't overcome the forces a poorly piloted board can deliver to your body. So you had better think about working WITH those forces instead of against them. Or you can just work against them at lame speeds like around 18 mph chattering and skipping through semi carved turns. Sermon done. Over and out.. ... Edited December 31, 2014 by John Gilmour 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Just a Thought... If your board is set up with both toes and heels in alignment with the edge, then changing the angles of your feet slightly would do this as well, I guess. Say you you ride at 60 f 55 b and toes and heels are aligned with your edges and change to 62 f 53 back then bias is achieved again...when skating and surfing the feet angles are constantly moving around to achieve better edge control, while snowboarding and the locking of the feet in one position is different, yet the same. I must add though, I never go over 10 mph and ride in soft boots with an added 3rd strap with a locked highback, so when I did try Bias years ago, to see what it would do, I found it unnecessary and returned to my original set up, which is both toes and heels in alignment with the edges...I am sure it works great for some though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 John have you ridden a Skwal . I am finding the more I adjust my stance to reflect your " theory " the more comfortable it becomes. I am reaching the limit on longitudinal axis for my binding centre distance and still have cramping in my rear leg hamstring. Any thoughts besides giving up because I'm too long in the tooth ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted January 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Thanks John...Appreciate you going through that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Just a Thought... If your board is set up with both toes and heels in alignment with the edge, then changing the angles of your feet slightly would do this as well, I guess. Say you you ride at 60 f 55 b and toes and heels are aligned with your edges and change to 62 f 53 back then bias is achieved again...when skating and surfing the feet angles are constantly moving around to achieve better edge control, while snowboarding and the locking of the feet in one position is different, yet the same. I must add though, I never go over 10 mph and ride in soft boots with an added 3rd strap with a locked highback, so when I did try Bias years ago, to see what it would do, I found it unnecessary and returned to my original set up, which is both toes and heels in alignment with the edges...I am sure it works great for some though... Actually changing your boot angles will not change your bias. Bias means biased to one side. Lowering your stance angles means overhang increases equally on both sides. Bias is the opposite of this. IT MEANS OVERHANG IS INCREASING ON ONE SIDE ONLY. Of which ever foot. In this case heel overhang on the front and toe overhang on the rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 John have you ridden a Skwal . I am finding the more I adjust my stance to reflect your " theory " the more comfortable it becomes. I am reaching the limit on longitudinal axis for my binding centre distance and still have cramping in my rear leg hamstring. Any thoughts besides giving up because I'm too long in the tooth ? T nut it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) SBS You mention surfing. In a sense all surfboards are too wide...they need to be too wide for floatation , and for keeping the edge rails thin enough to sink the rail. If you made then narrower they would get too tippy. When I started surfing I put both feet on the center stringer... Big mistake. Adding heel and toe bias made me immediately more stable. Look for this image. http://escueladesurflasdunas.com/bottom-turn/ I also ride modified parallel ..also known as offset parallel slalom skating for tech high speed courses... Definite Gilmour bias used there on Turner Summer Ski boards. Edited January 5, 2015 by John Gilmour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 http://escueladesurflasdunas.com/bottom-turn/ Will someone attach this image? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladia Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Good luck to try attach any image on new forum. You are probably not between chosen member. I have no permission for anything. This new format sucks big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Not for me it doesn't. It also works fine on mobile; no more tapa-bollox. I think there's a place to whine if something is not working.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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