Carvers WORST NIGHTMARE!!!

[scrutton]

That skier was ripping that turn.

Carver on Carver - I like that term.

[jtslalom]

WOW, I'm happy you're ok and for the most part, so is the skier who hit you. Obviously that accident was caused by the skier. I tend to think that most people on the slopes, skiers and snowboarders combined, have no idea about carving a snowboard. I have seen so many mishaps where a skier or another snowboarder will hit or nearly hit a carving snowboarder and blame it on them. About 15 years I actually had a ski patroller blame me for cutting him off as I was carving below him on the slope. I completely lost my cool and read the guy the riot act. After then i realized that not even some of the most experienced and cautious people on the slopes understand what carving a snowboard is all about. I trust NOBODY on the slopes with exception to a small group of skiers and snowboarders who I know understand about carving snowboards. I also try to take as many precautions as possible. Looking up the slope, waiting for groups of people to go down the slope before me and riding only at specific times of the day or specific uncrowded slopes. Accidents do happen but its much better when they are avoided.

Edited February 5, 2012 by jtslalom

[BXFR70]

I have a question for all of you, pertaining to this type of thing, I ride as more of a charge style, and not so much carve all the time, or if its "carving" its more of a race style, anyway, do all of you always follow the exact line down a slope when you are truly carving, say the slopes 100 ft wide, and you were going from 10 ft of the right edge to 60 ft from the right edge, and make the exact same turn, or do you vary slightly or sometimes use more or less of the slope? those numbers are just for example sake, not real measurements...

I ask because I personally get frustrated when anyone does not stick to their line they were on. I expect nothing less of beginners, but it happens at times from pretty good skiers that think no one will be faster than them on a slope, so they are on their side of the slope, and I am going past them away from them, when suddenly they decide to cross the entire slop to stop, or just drastically change their line, it is very annoying. In a perfect world, we could just ride slopes with no one on them, but that's not how it is, and none of us can wait for something to be perfectly clear most of the time.

Not looking to start any arguments, I realize that the downhill skier/rider always has the right of way, but I would think out of etiquette or just courtesy they should keep their line and be predictable, especially if they are not skiing or riding all that fast.

[scrutton]

do all of you always follow the exact line down a slope when you are truly carving, say the slopes 100 ft wide, and you were going from 10 ft of the right edge to 60 ft from the right edge, and make the exact same turn, or do you vary slightly or sometimes use more or less of the slope? those numbers are just for example sake, not real measurements...

I ask because I personally get frustrated when anyone does not stick to their line they were on.

I don't. You'd hate riding with me. I'm all over the place, enjoying the terrain, and finding things to carve turns around.

[Neil Gendzwill]

It's like my Dad always says about driving- if you insist on the right of way eventually you will be dead right.

[sic t 2]

It's like my Dad always says about driving- if you insist on the right of way eventually you will be dead right.

Amen

I ways check upslope and calculate how much time i hav b4 the risk becomes too great to lay unpredictable carves or slope consuming carves. A compound fracture would ruin summer mx for me. Just not worth that risk to me.

Edited February 5, 2012 by sic t 2

[lafcadio]

I agree with Timeless61 and also with Scott Firestone's Carver's Almanac, Rule #8:

Rule #8:

If you are traversing the slope between turns, or carving inconsistent turns, you must yield to people behind you.

Carvers should take extra precaution and not expect uphill skiers/riders to yield if not carving a predictable line.

If your line is not predictable then all bets are off and you definitely increase your risk of getting taken out.

Edited February 5, 2012 by lafcadio

[leeho730]

I believe we need stickers like the below so that we can attach to our back and remind those straight-line loving skiers:

Edited February 5, 2012 by leeho730

[WASMAN]

I agree with being predictable, but if you view the video, you will see that I WAS very predictable. Carving turns side to side. If you listen to his comments after you will actually hear him say ' I saw you make a carve out to the left and thought I could get by you on the right'....

[lafcadio]

I agree with being predictable, but if you view the video, you will see that I WAS very predictable. Carving turns side to side. If you listen to his comments after you will actually hear him say ' I saw you make a carve out to the left and thought I could get by you on the right'....

WASMAN, I agree with you 100%. My comment was in reply to Timeless61's question about not following a predictable line.

The video clearly shows that the skier hit you from behind with no warning while you were carving consistent turns, which is why it really is a worst nightmare experience.

Glad you're okay!

[sic t 2]

I agree with being predictable, but if you view the video, you will see that I WAS very predictable. Carving turns side to side. If you listen to his comments after you will actually hear him say ' I saw you make a carve out to the left and thought I could get by you on the right'....

you appear to have done everything right... except i would have started the video after the uphill glance.

Edited February 6, 2012 by sic t 2
clarity

[philw]

When I rode with a goggle-mounted camera my footage was unusable because I'm a complete coward. I'm constantly looking around, in front, behind, everywhere, looking for the rule-breakers or the people who make mistakes. It doesn't mean I'm not going to get taken out, but if it happens I'll at least have had a chance of taking avoiding action. If you're relying on that old rule book, "dead right" is pretty much where it ends.

[BobD]

I don't see how once you are linking turns you can look up hill unless you spend extra time traversing between turns. In which case you are taking up more room.

[John Gilmour]

In about 30 years of snowboarding...

In the beginning on crappy gear.. a lot of snowboarders hit skiers when following skiers who could stop much quicker.

Now... as a carver... I find I never get hit by snowboarders- only skiers. Particularly- amatuer skiers who think they are hot shots. It doesn't happen often... but its typically a guy in his mid 40's or 50's on outdated gear. I don't count hits as the only collisions..I also count near misses..and its always "that 40's - 50's guy".

Last guy to hit me... was 2 years ago... he had carved with me for 3 days prior in hardboots on a F2..he got on his skis (He used to be a moguls competitor)..and had seen me ride and should know my riding style..after 3 days. I was in a heelside carve and he just nailed me when attempting to overtake me. Classic complete disregard for skiers responsibility code. He went rag doll flying.....about 30 feet across the slope- blew out of his skis- poles- everything..yard sale.. and then calls my carve "aggressive" ...lol.. c'mon guy, take responsibility for ignoring the responsibility code. The downhill skier has the right of way (unless entering a trail from below or starting from a standstill)...and if you can't go downhill safely with people who you ski with....don't ride with anyone...ride alone...or take up needlepoint.

This guy- ...as I found out...always skis too close..perhaps because he feels he could avoid a mogul at speed..why not a skier? But it is the wrong way to think. He's not even a dumb guy.. he used to be on the Advance Team for the President. Just goes to show you..it's hard to trust anyone on the slopes...everytime I do I am disappointed....and that is why I do not trust anyone anymore... and always look first.

PERHAPS .... snowboarders are used to looking to the sides of the slopes. While skiers have more "tunnel vision" because of short radius turns so they aren't used to looking the full width of the slope. I found it remarkable (but not unusual) that this guy was absolutely safe to carve with but COMPLETELY UNSAFE to ski with.

It might be the mid set the gear puts you in.

I skied last year, on Palmer PO2's ...and I found I was intimately more concerned with the bubble space of about 8 feet around my skis and looking ahead down the hill as opposed to across...so I was guilty of the same thing. :( -------->I was on empty slopes at June MT. but if I had been at crowded Mammoth I would not have been as aware of others Like wide carving skiers or snowboarders on a crowded piste. I was more tightly concentrated on the mechanics and timing of my gear...there is more to keep track of when skiing than snowboarding- twice as many edges and poles too.

Women rarely try and pass and get closed out..they are a lot smarter than a 40-50 year old skier guys on energy drinks.

Edited February 6, 2012 by John Gilmour

[Jack M]

You handled the aftermath politely, nice job. Glad you weren't hurt. However do my eyes deceive me or was there a trail merge right before the crash? You didn't check uphill during or after the merge. If so then I think you might share a part of the fault. But it is still mostly his.

Edit -

I agree with being predictable, but if you view the video, you will see that I WAS very predictable. Carving turns side to side. If you listen to his comments after you will actually hear him say ' I saw you make a carve out to the left and thought I could get by you on the right'....

Oh, well that puts things more in your favor, but still, if there was a trail merge and he was on the other trail, it looks like he wouldn't have had enough time to realize your turn pattern.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Jack Michaud

[Beckmann AG]

I don't see how once you are linking turns you can look up hill unless you spend extra time traversing between turns.

A quick head check part way through a toeside is fairly straightforward. Heelside takes a bit more.

It's a lot easier when your feet are moving faster than your head.

Like anything else involving personal safety, you practice until it becomes second nature, and then you continue to practice under increasingly demanding conditions.

Regardless of opinions on who has the right of way and when they have that right, you owe it to yourself to be solely accountable for your safety involving everything around you, moving or otherwise.

It is all too easy to get caught up in the moment.

Obviously, a moment is all it takes.

[BobD]

A quick head check part way through a toeside is fairly straightforward. Heelside takes a bit more.

.

So does rotating your head (and Upper body on heel sides) detract from your form, or do we have Bomber style, Euro style, and contorted looking behind you on every turn style? ;)

[valsam]

It's always the persons who is coming from behind fault when a collision like this occurs but to say the truth we do take up to much space with our long radius turns, have been alpine snowboarding since 1996 and until 3-4 years ago i had only one or 2 slight collisions but the last years since taking up EC style turns people crashing into me is very frequent!

[WASMAN]

Jack, there was a trail merge right before the collision, but in the back of my head I knew the other trail was closed due to lack of snow coverage on that trail and it was unskiable, THis skier overtook me on the same trail I was on....

For the record, I do agree with all the comments about looking behind you between turns, and I usually do that a few times per run. I guess tis run, mentally I thought I was the only one on it as it was 1st thing in the morning and when I looked at the top of the slope there was nobody even close. I guess there is always somebody faster than you on the slopes.......

[Jonny]

The world is the world. If you're the only one who is clued up enough to realize that carvers and skiers together create a hazard, then it's your responsibility to take care of it, no matter what a Code says. I don't ride a carving board at all when it's crowded enough for this to matter, preferring to switch to skis. If you stay on a board, though, you definitely need to have the looking up down and sideways thing going on, no matter what it does for your enjoyment, and you probably need to be practicing your skids and shortswings and whatever else that doesn't create these massive closing rates. OP's situation is different, because that really does look like there's no one around.

It's one reason why ECES and other gatherings are so cool - a large posse creates slope awareness among the skiers and other straightliners, so we have a little more latitude than we do riding on our own.

Because this actually ISN'T a carver's worst nightmare. The real worst nightmare involves collision with a child, and then the matter of fault becomes irrelevant.

[sic t 2]

this post was set to self-destruct after 3 hours...hope ya all read it ! bye bye post

Edited February 7, 2012 by sic t 2

[Puddy Tat]

...Because this actually ISN'T a carver's worst nightmare. The real worst nightmare involves collision with a child...

Actually this is my worst nightmare, not for me running into a child but someone running into my 10 year old daughter who I just taught her to carve HB this year. She's all of 72 lbs and would definately get the worse end of any collision like this. I'm constantly harping on checking the trail, wait until it is clear, but anyone with kids, or who was a kid once, knows just how well they listen to advice from their parents.

Cheers,

Dave

[CarvingScooby]

WHITE or YELLOW - Let's not talk bout other than ALPINE RESPONSIBILITY CODE:

Who ever you are...when you behind / uphill follow:

#1. Always stay in control. You must be able to stop or avoid other people or objects.

#2. People ahead of you have the right-of-way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.

REMEMBER:The person ahead of you don't have eyes behind their head ;)

But I do agree with Neil's father::rolleyes:

if you insist on the right of way eventually you will be dead right

then wear xtra xtra protector :D or sit in the pub and watch other enjoy carving the snow...:p

Stay safe, enjoy the snow.

RT

[Bullwings]

Long thread. I'll read through it tomorrow at work :eplus2:

But, to add to this, I just got slammed into this past Sunday. My neck is still pretty sore and my upper/lower back was hurting that day. We both ended up being ok. I ALSO got hit by a skier - he was very apologetic and admitted that he was at fault.

I came over a crest, glanced over my shoulder right as I initiated my toe side turn (all clear), and then WHAM!!!! he was going pretty fast and his choice based on the path he was taking was either the trees or me... the choice was pretty obvious.

anyway, full face helmet FTW again this season.

[hyak.net]

A related video was linked to the one posted here showing a skier and snowboarder collide (both happen to be friends). The boarder took the worse of it by far and I would put a little more fault on this accident to the boarder, but it all appears to have happened so quick, just shows accidents happen.