SG delamination repair?

[jburrill]

OK. I delaminated my SG last season while using my TD3's w/o any plates or protectors or any other device (that shouldnt be neccesary). The area of delamination is around the front binding inserts. It is just the area around that spot and no more. If I mount my bindings tight, the bindings are loose. Obviously the titanal sandwich has split apart.

Well, I plan to repair and use this board! I refuse to let a $1500 titanal sandwich go to waste. Ive thought about ways to repair this thing all summer and have some ideas of my own but would love to hear some thoughts from the experts out there.

My first idea was to through bolt into shop inserts (through my VIST plate) that will be counter sunk into the base in the front area of the board using the plate as a template. This would utilize the vist as a repair plate (which is all I think its good for).

The other idea is to use a series of smaller stainless screws and epoxy and a stainless plate much like that of the vist. I could even just use the plate from the vist to do this. The other is to install insersts in the UHM pattern and use a new plate system.

Here is a photo of the damage. It doesnt look like much but the board is split like a bad sandwich. I must add that I have already corresponded with Sigi and he has not given me an answer yet (its been 6 months). They say its the bindings and the bindings say its the board. Either way, I would not advise using these boards without plates!

[kieran]

a nice expensive consumer-joy workaround would be to get a UPM pattern set of inserts countersunk in through the base, and then add a plate or other surface-mount hardware on top.

if your bindings are loose when you tighten them though, that suggests to me that part of the core has broken loose and is being pulled up with the insert pack?

[Ear dragger]

sounds to me that the boards core is compromised. I hate to say it but I think it's done. you should beg the manufacturer for a replacement or money off the price

[lowrider]

Hard to steer with only your rear foot strapped in.I had a front binding release once, still gives my nightmares. Don't play around with this do the UPM mount.

[lowrider]

Send me a BOL email i have some options for your consideration.

[Donek]

Tough to tell from your photo, but the creasing looks like the metal has cracked under the topsheet. No amount of glue is going to put the metal back together. If it's just the core, you could drill a couple holes into the board and use a syringe to suck epoxy from one hole to another. Then press/clamp it. Unlikely you'll be able to make it hold though.

[jburrill]

Sean, what about installing the UHM pattern inserts and using a plate? Why not glue and screw it and then use the UHM/plate?

[vapor]

Losing 1500 is cheaper than losing your acl.Even if i was riding it after the fix couldn't trust it enough to push it so is it worth it.

[Donek]

Sean, what about installing the UHM pattern inserts and using a plate? Why not glue and screw it and then use the UHM/plate?

I assume you mean UPM (universal Plate Mount).

I'm not a big fan of adding holes to a board after it's been built. If you've watched the video on my site about how we make metal boards, you'll have seen the demonstration of how brittle titanal is. You may be able to add the inserts, but by tightening the screws into the new inserts, you'll generate stress concentrations that are likely to crack the metal laminates. I've seen one other board that had a UPM added to it after the fact (I think a SG) and it was broken. I had to point it out as most people don't see this stuff. The one time I added inserts to a board after lamination (in 1999 or 2000), I broke it. You severely compromise the integrity of the board when you drill into it in that manner. How hard do you ride? How hard do you push on your board? If it fails, what are the likely consequences?

Losing 1500 is cheaper than losing your acl.Even if i was riding it after the fix couldn't trust it enough to push it so is it worth it.

I tend to agree on this point.

[jburrill]

Thanks Sean. The ACL is already gone but I'll take your advice on the breakage risk. Funny though. The day after I posted my question on here, Sigi kindly responded to my Email. I have since sent my board back to Austria for inspection. I will stick with non metal boards from now on or wait until a "metal" board is contrstructed to safe enough for me to ride the way I do.

[ursle]

Sean, what about installing the UHM pattern inserts and using a plate? Why not glue and screw it and then use the UHM/plate?

I'm guessing you cracked the board making your avatar ;)

Send it back to the manufacturer, you never know...

Edited March 7, 2012 by ursle

[Sigi@SGsnowboards.com]

Jason,

thanks for sending the board to the factory. We are awaiting the board to do a close investigation on this case.

Top quality of our material and therefore the satisfaction of our customers is our upmost goal.

Please do not create too many rumors about this broken board here in the forum as you have bought the deck from a racer second hand - and you do not know what happened to the board before you owned it - even if you handled it in a correct way, I presume.

I will keep you and also the forum-readers updated about the investigation on the board as soon as it is checked by our technicians in the laboratory.

Thanks,

Sigi

[lowrider]

SiGi i see your email is disabled so if you have a chance could you comment on retrofitting UPM mounts on any of your boards both glass and titinal. Thanks!

[Sigi@SGsnowboards.com]

The word "retro-fitting" says it already...

From a manufacturer's point of view I clearly must say no to such "retro-fitting" of side-inserts / or UPM mounts:

- Every board with 4x4 insert pattern has fibre-reinforced inserts that fulfill the standards and make the using of the boards safe.

- If you drill holes into your board and mount a plate into that holes, there is no guarantee that it will hold. In fact it is very dangerous.

- Those side-inserts /or UPM mounts were used by riders 6-7 years ago. Back then it was not possible to find 4x4-fixed plates that worked well.

- Nowadays there is no need anymore to drill holes into the boards. You can use a 4x4 fixed plate you can use at any board and switch it from one board to another within a few minutes.

- Why going two steps back when the future of plate-riding is already here?

Fun have!

Sigi

[~tb]

Jason,

thanks for sending the board to the factory. We are awaiting the board to do a close investigation on this case.

Top quality of our material and therefore the satisfaction of our customers is our upmost goal.

Please do not create too many rumors about this broken board here in the forum as you have bought the deck from a racer second hand - and you do not know what happened to the board before you owned it - even if you handled it in a correct way, I presume.

I will keep you and also the forum-readers updated about the investigation on the board as soon as it is checked by our technicians in the laboratory.

Thanks,

Sigi

Sigi,

Glad you posted here as it shows GREAT product support.

As a frequent reader, but seldom poster, I just wanted to chime in and let you know that I did not think this thread painted SG product in ANY bad light at all. Based on the original poster's want to fix the board, I read it as knowing that this was not an OEM issue but that they didn't want to give up on a great product.

[Bobby Buggs]

Here for the tb Suck up:barf:

[jburrill]

Sent that board over a month ago. And no response. Maybe it went to Australia. Since inquiring via Yahoo doesnt seem to work, maybe the Bomber forum will. Now that its carving season again, I would like to get that board repaired. That was the point of this thread. To see if any experts out there had some cool ideas on how to repair a slightly delaminated SG. I had my idea on how to repair it and at least it would have made it a good training/rock board. Now, no board. Sigi, what gives?

[Buell]

Lucky that SG is even looking at this. Standard practice in the industry is the warranty is non-transferable and valid only to the original purchaser withing the specified time frame and requirements like to abuse, etc.

I think Sigi already mention this somewhat. It is also a very busy time for Sigi at the moment given all his commitments and you will have a hard time getting him to respond quickly until end of season.

Jason, again, you can call me.

seriously the best

+1

All indications are that it is a dead board anyway and unsafe to ride. You are not losing anything by being patient.

A couple of years ago I emailed Sigi's company with some questions. It was Sigi that replied, even though someone else at the company could have. He probably wants to look at it himself but is traveling or racing.

[match2002]

Sent that board over a month ago. And no response. Maybe it went to Australia. Since inquiring via Yahoo doesnt seem to work, maybe the Bomber forum will. Now that its carving season again, I would like to get that board repaired. That was the point of this thread. To see if any experts out there had some cool ideas on how to repair a slightly delaminated SG. I had my idea on how to repair it and at least it would have made it a good training/rock board. Now, no board. Sigi, what gives?

Try to be funny or just sarcastic?

You always get what you give! With proper attitude every problem can be solved. With such sarcasm your chances are limited!

Sigi doesn't make SG boards himself, like Sean or Bruce. Boards are made in Elan factory under high quality standards. Every warranty case is reviewed by SG stuff and Elan's quality inspectors. And that takes time. Like or not!

CHEERS

[jburrill]

Lessons learned.

Dont buy second hand metal boards.

Dont put metal bindings on metal boards.

Dont send metal board to Australia.

Consider using aluminum cans to formulate my own metal board with "FIT" (fortified insert technology).

Keep stainless T-bolts ready at all times.

Make sure to bring my other board too.

Wait for instructions on how to mount bindings on and "properly" use metal boards. (riding metal boards like they could give out at the apex of any given turn is a prerequisite for "properly" using metal boards).

Have a couple of creditcards available to re-order a new metal board due to improper riding techniques.

Use flexier bindings that may give out sooner then the metal board thus lowering the chance for metal board failure but bolstering the chance that I may wind up doing a "Mary Lou Retton" down the expert trail into the dynamic wedge christie family below me.

Spearhead the "MBFCWRTH" foundation to raise funds for riders that need more than one metal board per season.

MBFCWRTH is an acronym for; Metal boards for chumps who ride too hard.

[Bobby Buggs]

Lessons learned.

Dont buy second hand metal boards.

Dont put metal bindings on metal boards.

Dont send metal board to Australia.

Consider using aluminum cans to formulate my own metal board with "FIT" (fortified insert technology).

Keep stainless T-bolts ready at all times.

Make sure to bring my other board too.

Wait for instructions on how to mount bindings on and "properly" use metal boards. (riding metal boards like they could give out at the apex of any given turn is a prerequisite for "properly" using metal boards).

Have a couple of creditcards available to re-order a new metal board due to improper riding techniques.

Use flexier bindings that may give out sooner then the metal board thus lowering the chance for metal board failure but bolstering the chance that I may wind up doing a "Mary Lou Retton" down the expert trail into the dynamic wedge christie family below me.

Spearhead the "MBFCWRTH" foundation to raise funds for riders that need more than one metal board per season.

MBFCWRTH is an acronym for; Metal boards for chumps who ride too hard.

Quoted for Troof, whats left to say after this:biggthump

[jburrill]

Chode Miller?

[Jack M]

gotta pay to play. go big or go home! ;)

[jburrill]

Just blogged with my carvologist and he said the same thing.

[pow4ever]

jburrill:

I hope it work out for you in the end.

Glad to know that you didn't get hurt.

I bought a used board and it delam on me. It does suck...

In a perfect world; I would buy the latest and greatest technology.

However that doesn't fit into my budget. Buying used allow me to try more equipments. If I like it; I would save up and buy new.

I am all for supporting our niche market vendor.

But shouldn't we also support our fellow carver instead of name calling?

--

David