pokkis Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) Most intersting is that axle-to-axle width is fixed and both bindings are deeply between axles (as in yours). What is ride compared to have rear foot over axle? Would be interesting to see of base side of that X-plate. Very nice and tempting setup anyway. Edited April 12, 2016 by pokkis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Fixed interaxle distance, with the axles at the plate end is a feature of the Allflex plate as well. If I dared to make cutouts in my BBP I could lower my design a further 3mm to 18mm plate height. I'm not going to go there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 When you have full weight between axles, i think plate should be stiffer than when you stand above rear axle, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) The greater the interaxle distance the greater the bending forces on the plate from the riders weight, and downweighting, when in use. The counter to that is how strongly you believe in the value of being able to "pedal" (twist) the plate vs. the value of increasing the torsional stiffness of the snowboard between the axles. I am in the maximise torsional stiffness camp. I have a 4mm BBP to play with, but I'd love to play/modify with a 5mm BBP. Edited April 12, 2016 by SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 That might be reason they use bushings between plate and board to avoid plate hitting top of board. It is tempting to tinker that kind of setup, but not sure if i have time for it too, some other devs ongoing. And need to check if i have any plate thin enogh to keep stack height low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 There is something runnning diagonally under the plate under each set of binding inserts, attached by the 4 bolts that have no obvious purpose in attaching the plate to the mechanicals underneath. Guessing this is some kind of torsion resistance / reinforcement, but in the absence of photos showing what's actually there. Does anyone know, have photos There is something runnning diagonally under the plate under each set of binding inserts, attached by the 4 bolts that have no obvious purpose in attaching the plate to the mechanicals underneath. Guessing this is some kind of torsion resistance / reinforcement, but in the absence of photos showing what's actually there. Does anyone know, have photos?t. binding torsion bar? guess it depends if the plate is set up for a regular or goofy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) Those seem to be just forcement for inserts, i think. Pic seem to be from slightly different (older?) version. Edited April 12, 2016 by pokkis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Look like bumpers to compensate for twist in the plate, able to be configured for either regular or goofy riders. The real problem with going so low is impingement with the cambered centre of the board while retaining the torsion box construction in the middle of the plate. Maybe plates need to get this kind of side profile. Flat part for bindings at either end, cambered in the middle to allow thickening for strength while allowing clearance for the board's camber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Maybe plates need to get this kind of side profile. Flat part for bindings at either end, cambered in the middle to allow thickening for strength while allowing clearance for the board's camber. hmm doesn't look very aero... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Interesting stuff as always! Sean from Donek spoke very favorably about the increased pivot distance of the Allflex mounting pattern and its interaction with natural board vibration nodes/harmonics. The bumpers under the bindings would allow direct power transmission to the board while it's cambered or the board and plate are bent the same amount. Everyone at ATC that rode the Donek prototype plate with the Allflex pivot locations raved about it, so they're onto something there. This makes me want to play with wider spacing on my 4mm Lite BP, along with installing similar bumpers close to the bindings in an effort to increase board feel. I did not ride the plate once this season and was debating selling it, but now I want to try extending the axle spacing. I think that can be done with some simple steel strips (as a proof of concept) as I recall that I wasn't using the forward-most inserts in the 4x4 pattern of the board. In theory, the addition of bumpers contacting the board could act like a naked board in large radius turns, while skidding, and on cat tracks, but offer full isolation when the board decambers into a tighter turn. Sounds like the best of both worlds! Alan, you could easily add bumpers/blocks in the narrowest UPM holes on the plate with your existing design to test this effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Just because: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Did they attach any floatation (foam bits, ziploc bags?) stuff to the sk8boards?! In my experience of having a sk8board go under [drainage ditches, usually], they sink, quick too. I'd hate to have to comb the surf-spot to find the board later. And, Softtrucks would've been my pick, as seawater is tough on bearings, axles and the like... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 This makes me want to play with wider spacing on my 4mm Lite BP, along with installing similar bumpers close to the bindings in an effort to increase board feel. I did not ride the plate once this season and was debating selling it, but now I want to try extending the axle spacing. I think that can be done with some simple steel strips (as a proof of concept) as I recall that I wasn't using the forward-most inserts in the 4x4 pattern of the board. In theory, the addition of bumpers contacting the board could act like a naked board in large radius turns, while skidding, and on cat tracks, but offer full isolation when the board decambers into a tighter turn. Sounds like the best of both worlds! Alan, you could easily add bumpers/blocks in the narrowest UPM holes on the plate with your existing design to test this effect. I had a look at my plate last night. It's not as simple as I'd hoped. I would need to make a new 4x4 or UPM mount for the board to stretch the axles that far. I'm not going to dive that deep into this experiment, but rather will sit back and watch Donek and Alan's efforts with great interest. However, adding bumpers on the narrowest UPM mount holes on the plate to bear on the board like the pictures of the new Apex plate is very reasonable to do with little work. Someone had posted pictures of a Tinkler plate with a bumper and a jackscrew behind the front bindings. My hope is adding these bumpers will bring back some snow 'feel' in non-carving situations that full-isolation plates are infamous for removing. I suspect that's part of what's going on in the Donek AF and the Allflex plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger jr Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Latest Gizmo setup. Direct mounted F2 toe and heel pieces to the Gizmo plate. Lighter and lower. The plate is 25.4 mm tall with the 3/4" tall isolators and now stack hieght is about 5mm higher than a Sidewinder with the F2s. Had Bruce put in 8 isolator inserts per binding to experiment with different configurations . Mounted on a 170 Energy with torsion +. Have been riding it with TD2s, it's a smooth ride. Hope to it try out this last weekend at Solitude with the F2s on. Nice to see people experimenting with different plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 (edited) Here carbon version using 4*4 inserts and (current) total height of 20mm. Angle range (what i need) 65-50 and stance adjust with 1cm steps. Mainly used on slalom board to get weight savings to long plate. Edited December 12, 2016 by pokkis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger jr Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 How's the 4x4 attached? Are there isolators under there also. The outer bushing are just sitting on the board like Geckos? Did you just buy a sheet of carbon fiber and cut it up? I'd like to go carbon and save more weight.Nice work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Pretty much like in Gecko. I liked that so much but my wife took it so needed to build my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger jr Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 So how is the plate attached to the board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Same way as G, with pilars and then plate to pilars, with those 4 screws visible onb pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger jr Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Oh it's a milled metal riser post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger jr Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 (edited) Thanks Pokkis. The Gizmos let you move around quite a bit and feels like the board flexes freely. The rubber isolators are pretty flexible (50 durometer?) Do you get that same feeling? Looks like your might be stiffer/ more solid? I guess the difference may be the Gizmos only are connected to the board by the isolators. What fun! So you just bought some carbon fiber plate and cut it up and drilled it yourself? Pretty easy to do? Edited April 14, 2016 by digger jr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Pretty much like in Gecko. I liked that so much but my wife took it so needed to build my own. Pokkis is winning at life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Thanks Corey Digger, my current ones are 79 shore, and stable feeling, like i want (and like on Gecko's), but still dampening from uneven surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 (edited) >> Oh it's a milled metal riser post? btw, for pilars this is goos source, you can get pretty any length you need: http://apexfasteners.com/fasteners/screw-machine-products/spacers-and-standoffs/standoffs/female-female-standoffs/hex-standoffs/6.0mm-hex-female-female-standoff?cPath=433_434_437& Edited April 14, 2016 by pokkis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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