powdahbonz Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 What is the board on the far right next to the Kessler? The one with the spaceman...and wow, Bola has alot of toys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 For to be right:MEN 1st- ALLFLEX 2nd - SG 3rd - ALLFLEX Yes, my bad. Thanks for the correction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 What is the board on the far right next to the Kessler? The one with the spaceman... http://allboardssports.com/liberation-race-gs/ http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?5269-Liberation-Snowboards Looks like they only make wakeboards now: http://www.liberationwake.com/index2.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLN Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Well, looks like Allflex plate proven itself. Waiting for tomorrow races, it gonna be quite interesting. But how does allflex works for free caringr? I mean there's not much to tweak in allflex plate. On "regular" you can move axles - set them wider, or shorter for example. Or move them forward and backward. I mean if the length of the plate and mounting points were made with GS racing in mind will it work that great for a regular rider? Keep in mind, there's not much you can tune. BTW, Can anyone comment on a mount pattern for Allflex? Is it the same for SL and GS boards? I believe that people use wider axle spacing for GS and shorter for SL, right? I'm not a racer, so need to ask this. Also, what would happen if any snow or ice comes under a plare? I bet racers don't really care about a snow under their plate, one run lasts around a minute, and there's not much snow on a race course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) What is the board on the far right next to the Kessler? The one with the spaceman...and wow, Bola has alot of toys Looks like a Liberation! I thought they stopped producing alpine stuff quite some time ago... my guess is it's NOS. My 178 is REALLY fun with a plate... it's a handful without the plate and I'm a big guy. Edited February 20, 2014 by lonbordin moar infos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big mario Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Looks like a Liberation! I thought they stopped producing alpine stuff quite some time ago... my guess is it's NOS. Nope, New. Ink was testing some last season, might have been that very stick. didn't get a chance myself. mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Nope, New. Ink was testing some last season, might have been that very stick. didn't get a chance myself.mario What?! and Ink didn't give us the lowdown? Where's the review? :D I know you all rode the stick I have... with a plate it's a completely different ride, so fun! Mahalo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkaholic Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) What?! and Ink didn't give us the lowdown? Where's the review? :DI know you all rode the stick I have... with a plate it's a completely different ride, so fun! Mahalo Ye, that was a new one that BJ was working on last year with vsr. It was a lot of fun. I think the only review I did went to BJ with suggestions to make it better. It isn't as stiff as the older boards like yours though. I rode my proto version of your board with JP1's Gizmo and had a blast. I did not ride the new board with a plate though. I spoke with BJ a couple weeks ago and he has a couple 162s still. Ink Edited February 21, 2014 by inkaholic More Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drschwartz Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) I coach a high school race team and have been trying different set ups. I really like the Vist for my slalom board. It dampens the chatter, and helps absorb shock, though I'm not sure whether this is due to actually helping the board flex differently, or just because there is so much mass that is doesn't allow as much transmission of vibration - I suspect the latter. I ride the board fixed in the rear. I have ridden both the Apex, version 2, and the Bomber Boilerplate on my large carving board. The boilerplate is a little lighter, and the friction on the gliding part of the plate seems to be less than the Apex. Rode the Apex all last season, will have a better idea of the comparison after some more time on my board this season (live in California, need I say more?) Any body else have thoughts on how these two plates compare in terms of performance? any one use a boilerplate or Apex for slalom racing? I haven't tried this yet. Edited February 21, 2014 by drschwartz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSSage Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Thanks, Sean. It looks like it would be pretty heavy. You would think that but it is actually very light. Lighter than an Apex I think. Not much heavier than the Donek F-plate. I don't think it's the kind of plate you want for freecarving though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donek Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) I coach a high school race team and have been trying different set ups. I really like the Vist for my slalom board. It dampens the chatter, and helps absorb shock, though I'm not sure whether this is due to actually helping the board flex differently, or just because there is so much mass that is doesn't allow as much transmission of vibration - I suspect the latter. I ride the board fixed in the rear.I have ridden both the Apex, version 2, and the Bomber Boilerplate on my large carving board. The boilerplate is a little lighter, and the friction on the gliding part of the plate seems to be less than the Apex. Rode the Apex all last season, will have a better idea of the comparison after some more time on my board this season (live in California, need I say more?) Any body else have thoughts on how these two plates compare in terms of performance? any one use a boilerplate or Apex for slalom racing? I haven't tried this yet. The VIST style plates (look at our F-plate and Kessler K-Plate as well) have been the plates of choice for most slalom racers and junior/smaller GS racers. Fawcette wrote an article on plate progression (I think last year) that talks about how to progress athletes through plate systems. Young light weight riders don't do well transitioning directly to a monoplate. Lighter riders frequently don't even do well on them as they don't have enough mass or strength. You would think that but it is actually very light. Lighter than an Apex I think. Not much heavier than the Donek F-plate. I don't think it's the kind of plate you want for freecarving though While I have not ridden the allflex, this is my understanding as well. Racers are looking for something entirely different in a plate than a recreational carver. Recreational riders want something that gives them more ability to manipulate the board. Bombers newer lighter plates twist more. Our AF system also provides greater ability to twist the board and even bend/pre-load it between the riders feet. Racers also tend to be indifferent to weight. Perhaps that's even wrong. Converse complained two years ago that his setup was too light. Racers want mass. More mass is less likely to be thrown by inconsistencies in a course. Recreational riders want light weight plates that don't pull their leg off on the chair. Edited February 21, 2014 by Donek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Fawcette wrote an article on plate progression (I think last year) that talks about how to progress athletes through plate systems. A link to said article, kind sir? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donek Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I believe that link is somewhere in this thread, but I can't be certain. Sorry. A link to said article, kind sir? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 A link to said article, kind sir? I believe Sean is talking about this: http://www.apexsnowboard.com/blog_gps.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I believe Sean is talking about this: http://www.apexsnowboard.com/blog_gps.php Thanks Keyser Soze! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 No problem, Dave. It's interesting to see that Fawcett doesn't recommend anything more than a semi-isolation plate for SL boards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 No problem, Dave.It's interesting to see that Fawcett doesn't recommend anything more than a semi-isolation plate for SL boards... Yeah. Sean mentions the "delay" in true isolation plates in a couple of his videos. Any delays in SL are going to really be difficult to overcome... I personally would love to try the Donek AF or a VIST so I'd know the difference in feel under my feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I personally would love to try the Donek AF or a VIST so I'd know the difference in feel under my feet.the few times i've ridden on a VIST where conditions have allowed it, i've noticed that it seems to encourage cross-under movements. brute force sort of thing. this was on both a 162 sg, and 163 rev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Yeah. Sean mentions the "delay" in true isolation plates in a couple of his videos. Any delays in SL are going to really be difficult to overcome... I personally would love to try the Donek AF or a VIST so I'd know the difference in feel under my feet. Dave, I just bought an AF plate and put it on my board this week. I got out for a few hours at a local hill but wanted a few more hours on it before I wrote an actual review. Anyway here's the gist of an email I wrote Sean on Wednesday morning about it. "I put the AF plate on my 185cm NSR a couple of days ago and took it out to a local speed bump last night. I was riding with TD3 SI on the lowered plate cants, with RC10s. This was my first time on a board with a plate ever and I've heard things about plates such as, "it'll make the board turn larger", "you'll lose board feel" and "you have to change your riding style". So I was a little concerned taking the larger GS board out on a small hill where it was going to be a little tougher to maintain speed and there might initially be a few crowds. The AF plate was amazing, the board basically rode just like it did without the plate, however I seemed to have increased power to the edge and the whole ride seemed smoother. I did notice a few softbooters getting tossed around by ruts and chop, but I can't say I noticed them. This may not be completely due to the plate, as I've previously been able to cut through crud with the NSR. But I do think there was a noticeable difference having it on. i think it's found a permanent home on my NSR." So far I'm liking it. I'll see about writing something more review-like after riding up at Sunshine on some larger slopes this weekend. Also keep in mind I'm approaching all of this from a freecarver's perspective. Cheers, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loopback Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Maybe that's a good thing? It might act like the duckbill on the original Apex plate, providing a sudden stiffening once the board hits a certain amount of flex. I am not a racer, I do not race, I have never raced ....I am speculating out of my rear end, BUT... Could this be the secret sauce and the common factor with JJA/ApexV1 and the Allflex that made them both successful? IMHO they do both limit the flex of the board, albeit in radically different ways. I think the JJA interface (plate) has some overhang in the front and may limit flex too but cannot remember for sure?? My thinking is this: -If you limit the the amount of flex you can also limit the radius of the turn. -Racing gates presents a series of relatively consistent turns. -If I could limit the flex/radius of my board such that it matched the snow and turn spacing, I could then ride very aggressively with no fear of forcing my 18m or 12m or any meter SCR board into a tighter turn than needed for the gates. Considering the warmer temps and soft snow I saw no one close to folding the nose/going over the bars in todays SL on the Allflex plate...and it's not like they were sitting back on their board at all. JJA spoke about tuning the original Apex plate between runs constantly between runs in interviews after Vancouver. I have no clue if the Allflex can be tuned to adjust the amount of flex either. Again, I have no experience racing and got up at 3:45am to watch the event Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piciu Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 A point well worth consideration, but looking at today's PGS podiums...MEN 1st- ALLFLEX 2nd - ALLFLEX 3rd - SG WOMEN 1st- ALLFLEX 2nd - ALLFLEX 3rd - ALLFLEX They may have just Kessler'd the plate market. [ATTACH=CONFIG]37909[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]37910[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]37911[/ATTACH] That might even be F2 Race Titanium level domination. Correction: MEN 1st- ALLFLEX 2nd - SG 3rd - ALLFLEX :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 I have no clue if the Allflex can be tuned to adjust the amount of flex either.if i remember the side-on diagram someone posted last year, possibly yes. in the middle of the plate there was some contriviance that limited how much the board would decamber, at least between the hinges.. it's feasable to imagine that the limit imposed by this hard-stop could be adjusted easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 so are F2 race titaniums on an isolation plate The Great Equaliser? at least in mens PGSL we have kessler, sg and oxess all on the podium. was an exponential flex response HJK's secret sauce? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piciu Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 PSL Men's podium: 1st - ALLFLEX 2nd - VIST 3rd - Benjamin Karl's custom 4th - VIST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Correction:MEN 1st- ALLFLEX 2nd - SG 3rd - ALLFLEX :) Hahaha, you're a couple of days late! http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?29131-Alpine-Snowboard-Plate-Systems&p=417133#post417133 snowmatic, so the 98/99 Northwaves are the ones with the red boot cuff, and the 97/98 are yellow? I always thought the red cuffs were just a mod. Are there any other differences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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