Another: "He turned right in front of me!" post

[b0ardski]

I learned in kindergarten that it's safer to look both ways when crossing the street:smashfrea

[carvedog]

I love this quote! It needs to be overlaid on a poster-sized shot of some impeccable groom with a deep curving trench in it.

Dave

Thanks Dave. I feel very lucky to live and ride where we do get the completely deserted slopes this occasionally.

Just finished my nightly PT. Now if my back will continue to cooperate I will get back out there.

On most runs, even though not required by law, I will continue to look uphill every few turns.

[Lorddrek]

Please record me as one who steals a quick glance every 2-5 turns when I am carving. Also when emerging after hitting something off trail.

Where I live pedestrians have the right of way in crosswalks. Many people just walk right across without waiting or even looking. Sure the law protects their behavior but not their safety.

[refried]

the question is, Is photodad teaching his daughter to look uphill and be safe, or does she have tunnel vision from the fullface and only looks downhill.

[photodad2001]

the question is, Is photodad teaching his daughter to look uphill and be safe, or does she have tunnel vision from the fullface and only looks downhill.

Now, you start bringing my daughter into this and things are going to get ugly. Have you ever seen a daddy bird protect his baby bird? You're asking for a pecking to the head. (which is what those baggy panted pricks got) Besides, this is also an excellent side point to my original point. Not everyone has the ability to do what Buell wants, if you had to be able to ride while looking backwards in order to be on the hill nobody would ever get the chance to progress. Maybe "lollygagging" wasn't the right word. But if you are constantly look behind you how can you be pushing yourself? And a new rider that is learning can't do what is being asked. If they taught kids to keep looking behind them in lessons they'd either be falling all over the slope or when they'd turn their heads they'd turn as a result and it would cause more accidents and remedy none. That's why I ride behind my daughter. And you are a bold faced liar. (there, I finally said it) Let me make this plain. I DO look back, but as others have pointed out, watching behind you that often is taking your attention away from where it is SUPPOSED to be, and that is what the problem is in the first place. People not watching where they are going. Let me make one thing perfectly clear (and I have asked for examples twice, yet no one can produce one)

NOBODY IN ANY VIDEO I"VE EVER SEEN ON THIS SITE, OR ANY OTHER, LOOKS BACK THAT MUCH IF AT ALL.

So until I see people looking back in videos like I see helmet use I'm just going to have to assume it doesn't happen and you are not the norm for safety and should be ignored much like Buell. Again, I do look back (I'm going to say after more like 6-9 carves. That's 6 to 9, not 69), and if it's Wednesday morning and all the kids are at school it's no worries.

[philw]

Are you on medication? Let's just disagree.

[carvedog]

Now, you start bringing my daughter into this and things are going to get ugly. Have you ever seen a daddy bird protect his baby bird? You're asking for a pecking to the head. (which is what those baggy panted pricks got) Besides, this is also an excellent side point to my original point. Not everyone has the ability to do what Buell wants, if you had to be able to ride while looking backwards in order to be on the hill nobody would ever get the chance to progress. Maybe "lollygagging" wasn't the right word. But if you are constantly look behind you how can you be pushing yourself? .............

So until I see people looking back in videos like I see helmet use I'm just going to have to assume it doesn't happen and you are not the norm for safety and should be ignored much like Buell. Again, I do look back (I'm going to say after more like 6-9 carves. That's 6 to 9, not 69), and if it's Wednesday morning and all the kids are at school it's no worries.

Photodad - Shouts, yells, stamps feet to no effect. Calls people liars over????

it's the interweb dude.

from what you said other than getting those guys kicked out 10 minutes early you didn't do **** to protect your daughter. Putting her in a vision restricted helmet????

Teaching her that she doesn't have to look uphill cuz you are going to protect her Daddy Bird style by riding behind her???

Didn't work in the situation that started this whole thread.

I do teach my students to look uphill and often, from day one. I also teach them how to look for gaps in people and surf the bubble.

Then the whole thing about videos not showing. Get a grip man. the way I do it you would never see in a vid. I am regular so when I am at the far left side of the run, coming out of a toeside, I steal a glance uphill when I have the whole slope to my right.

this doesn't mean that I spend seconds gazing up at the horizon towards the top of the hill.

Maybe on your very small hill you don't have the speed or velocities necessary to need to do this. By advocating against looking uphill every few turns you are doing a disservice to new riders who may not be riding at such a small hill.

If you spend time at my hill carving run wide(even though we are the least crowded place that I know of), without looking up once in a while for high speed skiers at the least you will have the **** scared out you. At the worst, well you maybe get the toboggan ride down.

Not saying that you aren't a good Dad. Or that you aren't trying to do the right thing. You yourself admitted to the upward glance but because Buell advocates for more frequent looks ( to try to prevent collisions ) he is a liar?????

You need to try to find the middle ground. Not everyone is in your situation. Small hill, not steep enough to generate high g turns, etc.

Think about it. This isn't something that anyone "Wins". If you get a few more days in without a collision or close call isn't it worth it?

[Buell]

you are not the norm for safety and should be ignored much like Buell.

You are wrong and clueless on this issue. It is unfortunate that you are so isolated on your 300 foot hill and cannot comprehend what we are talking about.

I want to make sure that other beginner and intermediate riders are informed that looking uphill often is a key to the health of a carver and the skill needs to be developed early.

From the distance that most videos are shot, you would not even notice my check back uphill. I know many of the riders in videos that have been posted here and I know that they check uphill. Two of them I have seen here in videos have already chimed in to say that they check uphill at least every few turns. That is Monodude and Carvedog.

One does not make it to experienced carver without checking uphill often having been ingrained in you by close calls or common sense.

Seriously, you are inexperienced and do not need to be offering this advice.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I wonder if Photodad shoulder-checks before changing lanes while driving, or is he too busy making sure he doesn't hit the car in front of him?

[monodude]

As far as who's right/wrong or where responsibility lies, is spelled out clearly in the skiers code. I've ridden motorcycles all of my life. I don't ride blindly thinking that I'm right: as in the dreaded "left turner" in front of you, Or those that pull out right in front of you, or the "I have the right of way attitude" at an uncontrolled intersection. It doesn't seem to matter much if you were right or wrong when your laying a hospital bed knowing that your season just ended. Ride defensively and protect yourself from a "pro-action" point rather than the blind ignorance of "I'm right". If you trust the uphill rider to avoid the downhill rider you are also trusting that they have the ability to avoid you. More often than not that is NOT the case. That's why most collisions happen. Also, we, as good carvers carry lots of speed, more so than most recreational skiers/riders, and we're doing it across the hill not fall line. That speed is hard to judge even to a carver. I wait for "the gap" and then go, after a few turns I look uphill. Just a quick glance. If I see someone coming I might just slack off on the next turn and judge for myself if that person might be a threat. If so, I'll prolly pull up and wait. Or if I'm coming to a section that I want to rage and put down 5 or 6 turns I'll slack off one turn and get a GOOD look up hill.

To sum up my tirade, people these days, are taking less and less responsibility for their own actions. If I can do ANYTHING to lessen the possibility of a collision, (right or wrong), then I have acted responsibly in my eyes, as a human, and feel good that I've done all I can do, instead of hiding/riding blindly behind the law.

Don

Feed the addiction...

[carvin29]

I look up the mountain because someone always tends to bolt out of nowhere and pass me at what seems like 80mph. At A-basin on Sunday, I was really enjoying this natural gully, carving side to side like it was a halfpipe when 3 or 4 skiiers decided to do that.

[refried]

That's why I ride behind my daughter.

But that didn't stop her from getting hit did it? Maybe if you were looking around more the collision could have been avoided.

and as for that pecking....I'll be waiting peckerhead:sleep:

(sorry for the name calling, He's just an easy target)

[photodad2001]

I wonder if Photodad shoulder-checks before changing lanes while driving, or is he too busy making sure he doesn't hit the car in front of him?

That would fall under crossover trails so your argument doesn't hold water.

[photodad2001]

But that didn't stop her from getting hit did it? Maybe if you were looking around more the collision could have been avoided.

and as for that pecking....I'll be waiting peckerhead:sleep:

(sorry for the name calling, He's just an easy target)

Hmmm. Grommer Gromet with no information. What's shaken Buell!!!

No seriously. If you find yourself in a position where you need to look up hill after making 2 turns you should get off the slope and stop carving. It's obviously too crowded and you are endangering yourself and others by trying to carve in conditions that are obviously unsafe.

[photodad2001]

You are wrong and clueless on this issue. It is unfortunate that you are so isolated on your 300 foot hill and cannot comprehend what we are talking about.

I want to make sure that other beginner and intermediate riders are informed that looking uphill often is a key to the health of a carver and the skill needs to be developed early.

From the distance that most videos are shot, you would not even notice my check back uphill. I know many of the riders in videos that have been posted here and I know that they check uphill. Two of them I have seen here in videos have already chimed in to say that they check uphill at least every few turns. That is Monodude and Carvedog.

One does not make it to experienced carver without checking uphill often having been ingrained in you by close calls or common sense.

Seriously, you are inexperienced and do not need to be offering this advice.

Sounds to me like you are a danger to yourself and everyone on the slope if you ride in crowds that require a look behind you every 2 turns. If this is the case get off the slope and stop carving when it gets that crowded. It happens sometimes. The slopes can just get too bogged down where you have to make a judgement call and deside it is too dangerous for yourself and everyone around you to carve on the hill.

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=28309

Not picking on anybody, but it was on the first page. 2,5,9 carves.... no look back. I can put up example after example from this sites videos that nobody looks back that often. There have already been others who support the fact that you are not riding safe by taking your attention away from where you are going that frequently and it's just a shame that some on here can't get past that they are talking with photodad.

[refried]

Hmmm. Grommer Gromet with no information. What's shaken Buell!!!

I'd rather ride than talk about riding, you've got a lot more posts than me, looks like you'd rather make posts and not admit your wrong.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I wonder if Photodad shoulder-checks before changing lanes while driving, or is he too busy making sure he doesn't hit the car in front of him?

That would fall under crossover trails so your argument doesn't hold water.

No, it's pretty much exactly analogous. The people you are trying to avoid hitting regard a wide slope as being like a multi-lane road. They don't expect you to get out of your lane. The fact that they are supposed to avoid you makes no difference to the actual outcome, which can be serious injury to both parties. As my Dad likes to say about driving, if you insist on the right of way you may well end up dead right.

[photodad2001]

Then the whole thing about videos not showing. Get a grip man. the way I do it you would never see in a vid.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

If you spend time at my hill carving run wide(even though we are the least crowded place that I know of), without looking up once in a while for high speed skiers at the least you will have the **** scared out you. At the worst, well you maybe get the toboggan ride down.

Um, Have I not said I look up "ONCE IN A WHILE"?

You yourself admitted to the upward glance but because Buell advocates for more frequent looks ( to try to prevent collisions ) he is a liar?????

Show me then. OH WAIT, I forgot!!! You can't SEE people looking up hill. Or at least yourself.

[photodad2001]

No, it's pretty much exactly analogous. The people you are trying to avoid hitting regard a wide slope as being like a multi-lane road. They don't expect you to get out of your lane. The fact that they are supposed to avoid you makes no difference to the actual outcome, which can be serious injury to both parties. As my Dad likes to say about driving, if you insist on the right of way you may well end up dead right.

Then by your arguement you should look up hill EVERY time you turn or you are at fault. Do you see? You are compairing driving wrecklessly with carving. That's a fine line there. New Code Regulation- "riders must look up hill before each traverse". I think you're on to something. This needs to be added. Come on guy. You know it isn't applicable, you're just on the "get photodad bandwagon".

[carvedog]

Show me then. OH WAIT, I forgot!!! You can't SEE people looking up hill. Or at least yourself.

Sure hope the medication kicks in for you before too long. YOu don't even make sense. At all.

And listen up Big Bird, if you are going to quote someone- like me, then quote me. I stand by what I say. But don't put your jr high type retorts in the midst of my quote and so it looks as if I said it.

[nigelc]

I hate being in accidents. I do a lot of road cycling and so I am familiar with being in the right while nursing injuries and the stupidity of that stance. The last one was $1500 damage to the front of the car that hit me and i was off the road for some time. I ride both my road bike and my snowboard very defensively. On the snowboard I look uphill every time i can while on heelside, which is most turns. I always wait for a gap before I start out and I am willing to wait a long time to reduce risk.

The state of the art of the straight liner has developed to the point that they are going so fast that its impossible to avoid them every time. One of them will get you eventually. Two of my friends this year were hit while stationary at the side of the trail while in plain view. Neither moron even stopped. This has got much worse over the last few seasons.

[carvedog]

video

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at :53, 1:21 and 1:41 Did you catch it? Quick huh. Not gazing around being unsafe to downhill traffic. BTW I am the fat guy on the Burner.

[photodad2001]

video

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at :53, 1:21 and 1:41 Did you catch it? Quick huh. Not gazing around being unsafe to downhill traffic. BTW I am the fat guy on the Burner.

I caught them. Couldn't tell if you made it within the 5 carves because of the editing, but did not make 2. That also classifies more like what I said a LONG time ago, let me go find that, now where did I put that.... Hang on.... I know it's here somewhere..... Just a second..... You know you say something so far back it gets lost in all the clutter...... Oh yeah, here it is. And I left it exactly as I originally put it.

"I am extremely visually aware of what is below and to my left and right, maybe even upper left and upper right"

I saw your glances up and to the side for sure just like I do, and from time to time, (like say on a flat section or while not charging) I turn my head and look straight up hill behind me to make sure I haven't missed anybody that could be in a blind spot.

[photodad2001]

This has got much worse over the last few seasons.

I think it has gotten worse for 2 reasons. One, the resorts won't take charge and clip tickets because they don't want to loose business/money, and 2, the number of people who are new to either skiing or boarding is increasing and they aren't being taught (by not taking lessons and teaching themselves and also by not having easy and regular exposure to what the rules are).

[newcarver]

Our local resort did a safety promotion where they did a drawing for a season pass next season. Had stations set up around the mountain with info about code and such. You got a stamp for each station. If you visited all stations then you were entered to win the pass. Pass is worth $1850 at regular price! That's one good way to get the safety message across to people.