Another: "He turned right in front of me!" post

[photodad2001]

So I'm at the slopes with my daughter and we're working on her carving and as we are approaching the end of the run, not more than 30 yards from the lift line, baggy pants #1 comes roaring through and clips my daughter sending her to the snow face first, then I make a sharp turn to make my way over when baggy pants #2 comes bearing down on me and only because I heard his skid was I able to alter course enough that we didn't hit full on. Just a touch of the boards. I go over to see if she's alright, and besides the initial shock and a face full of snow she was ok. Now baggy pants #3 makes his way into the scene and about 10 yards right and down hill #'s 2&3 are checking on their bro (#1) who had also eaten a plate full of snow. All 3 of these guys were at least 16 and were more than likely part of one of the high school groups that were there tonight. Not one of them bothered to make any sort of appology or even ask if she was alright. When they were getting up and looked like they were going to just continue on I said, "Hey!". Baggy pants #3, the only one that didn't seem to be riding out of control looked back and said, "is she ok?", I said, "she's a little shaken up", he said, "oh", and the 3 turned to head to the lift, I said, "Hey! The down hill rider has the right of way!". After that it was a yelling match for a couple minutes, of course they were completely sure they had the right of way and that if anyone should appologize it should be us, then I spotted a patroller coming over to get in line.

I went up to the patroller and the other 3 shuffled over the best they could without their pants falling down, and I was about to ask the patroler when they interupted me and said, "Wait! Let's see what he says before you say anything!" So they gave a not so accurate description of what happened and the patroller said "the down hill rider has the right of way". Not satisfied they start to change the story like my daughter had came screaming cross slope at such a rate he couldn't avoid her. (I looked at the patroler and he gave me the same look back) He continued to say, "what was she doing cutting across the slope for anyway?" (again looks were exchanged). The patroler finnaly said, "the slopes closing in 10 minutes, you 2 appologize and go home."

[DiveBomber]

"the downhill rider has right of way"

they were going down hill right??

[photodad2001]

"the downhill rider has right of way"

they were going down hill right??

They sure were. I don't think they could cut cross slope if their lives depended on it! Baggy pants #1 did some sort of flailling move with his arms followed by a hop or jump to try to avoid my daughter. I'm not sure where he learned to turn, but I've never seen that type of evasive move work before.:lol:

[SteveInOregon]

I hope Your daughter has / had a helmet.

[philw]

Was that night riding ? I ask only because I had to ride a couple of nights to shoot photographs in the last couple of weeks, and the people there were just dangerous. I was nearly taken out by some girl boarder, only saved by the fact that I had more mass than her and could hold my line so she bounced off. I was just wondering if people's piste-sense goes to poo in floodlights or something.

[photodad2001]

I hope Your daughter has / had a helmet.

Full face BMX helmet.

[photodad2001]

Was that night riding ? I ask only because I had to ride a couple of nights to shoot photographs in the last couple of weeks, and the people there were just dangerous. I was nearly taken out by some girl boarder, only saved by the fact that I had more mass than her and could hold my line so she bounced off. I was just wondering if people's piste-sense goes to poo in floodlights or something.

Yep. This will be the last time we go on a Friday. The patroller said they get all kinds of high school groups on Friday. I'm thinking Thursday will be our new night. (just have to suffer Friday morning)

[BlueB]

Last Sunday at Blackcomb I was carving at 7th Heaven area. Wide, fast, uniform turns. Then a baggy came past bombing and then slowed down to yell that I'm not supposed to go "side to side"... I was ridding the big Kessler and moving with quite a bit of speed, can you immagine at what kind of speed he came down and what an impact could have looked like? :(

At my reply about downhill skier's right of way, he got quite pissed off. I was expecting a confrontation at the lift line, with his buddies. However, it never happened - 6 othe h/booters were waiting there. We outnumbered them :)

[photodad2001]

Last Sunday at Blackcomb I was carving at 7th Heaven area. Wide, fast, uniform turns. Then a baggy came past bombing and then slowed down to yell that I'm not supposed to go "side to side"... I was ridding the big Kessler and moving with quite a bit of speed, can you immagine at what kind of speed he came down and what an impact could have looked like? :(

At my reply about downhill skier's right of way, he got quite pissed off. I was expecting a confrontation at the lift line, with his buddies. However, it never happened - 6 othe h/booters were waiting there. We outnumbered them :)

I'm telling you carvers are growing in number. I know 2 of the instructors at my hill carve and I've seen at least 7 different guys out there this year and still haven't ran into some of the guys from last year I saw. There's a storm a brewin'. When we get more and more guys going cross slope these incidents are going to start to pile up and resorts are going to feel the need to do something about it.

[jp1]

photodad2001, " I'm telling you carvers are growing in number. I know 2 of the instructors at my hill carve and I've seen at least 7 different guys out there this year and still haven't ran into some of the guys from last year I saw. There's a storm a brewin'. When we get more and more guys going cross slope these incidents are going to start to pile up and resorts are going to feel the need to do something about it."

Have to agree with you, be it on ski's or boards, more and more people getting into turning and Carving :).

I'm seeing some 'sweet turns' at the local hill. Resorts have Parks, Pipes, and SLOW areas, why not have a Carving Area?

One trail marked for 'Turning & Carving ONLY, No Straightliners'.

Send the Straightliners to the Tubing Lanes where they have less chance of making any turns and can be less dangerous to others.

[carvedog]

Send the Straightliners to the Tubing Lanes where they have less chance of making any turns and can be less dangerous to others.

I love that. :lol:

[Guest]

[i'm seeing some 'sweet turns' at the local hill. Resorts have Parks, Pipes, and SLOW areas, why not have a Carving Area?

One trail marked for 'Turning & Carving ONLY, No Straightliners'.

Send the Straightliners to the Tubing Lanes where they have less chance of making any turns and can be less dangerous to others.

I was just proposing that to friends the other day, perhaps a groomer with a Double black diamond designation that only allows those with a local lift pass on it.

That would rock.

[CarvingScooby]

So I'm at the slopes with my daughter and we're working on her carving and as we are approaching the end of the run, not more than 30 yards from the lift line, baggy pants #1 comes roaring through and clips my daughter sending her to the snow face first, then I make a sharp turn to make my way over when baggy pants #2 comes bearing down on me and only because I heard his skid was I able to alter course enough that we didn't hit full on. Just a touch of the boards. I go over to see if she's alright, and besides the initial shock and a face full of snow she was ok. Now baggy pants #3 makes his way into the scene and about 10 yards right and down hill #'s 2&3 are checking on their bro (#1) who had also eaten a plate full of snow. All 3 of these guys were at least 16 and were more than likely part of one of the high school groups that were there tonight. Not one of them bothered to make any sort of appology or even ask if she was alright. When they were getting up and looked like they were going to just continue on I said, "Hey!". Baggy pants #3, the only one that didn't seem to be riding out of control looked back and said, "is she ok?", I said, "she's a little shaken up", he said, "oh", and the 3 turned to head to the lift, I said, "Hey! The down hill rider has the right of way!". After that it was a yelling match for a couple minutes, of course they were completely sure they had the right of way and that if anyone should appologize it should be us, then I spotted a patroller coming over to get in line.

I went up to the patroller and the other 3 shuffled over the best they could without their pants falling down, and I was about to ask the patroler when they interupted me and said, "Wait! Let's see what he says before you say anything!" So they gave a not so accurate description of what happened and the patroller said "the down hill rider has the right of way". Not satisfied they start to change the story like my daughter had came screaming cross slope at such a rate he couldn't avoid her. (I looked at the patroler and he gave me the same look back) He continued to say, "what was she doing cutting across the slope for anyway?" (again looks were exchanged). The patroler finnaly said, "the slopes closing in 10 minutes, you 2 appologize and go home."

If the uphill was a carver with the same attitude with the baggy pants, what do you think the Patroller wud do?mmm...:rolleyes:

Main thing your doughter is alright.

Cheers

Roy:lurk:

[vapor]

The patrollers on Big White call cheap fri night femur fri.Basicly yahoos that dont have a clue come up and cause havoc.

Good that you brought up the downhill thing with then but it prob fell on deaf ears as they sounded like the type where they are always right.

More carving on the slope means more people are exposed to it and know how to deal with the situation. What needs to happen is in serious situations where people are put out of commision because of negligence the patrollers/skihill need to step in and take action.

[Call me jack]

I'm telling you carvers are growing in number. I know 2 of the instructors at my hill carve and I've seen at least 7 different guys out there this year and still haven't ran into some of the guys from last year I saw. There's a storm a brewin'. When we get more and more guys going cross slope these incidents are going to start to pile up and resorts are going to feel the need to do something about it.

We really are. We had a local expression session, last wednesday, and there were pretty much only carvers theres. i saw a jibber guy i work with, who always gives me **** for riding alpine (he's one of those cocks who thinks he's better than every one :rolleyes: ) with 20 other hard boots around me, he didn't have a word to say.

I see more and more people every month riding alpine equipment. Honestly, i think if it were cheaper to get into, the market for alpine would grow to at least that of the telemark ski market

[philw]

I was just proposing that to friends the other day, perhaps a groomer with a Double black diamond designation that only allows those with a local lift pass on it.

That would rock.

Not much good for visitors; just tell me which bits of your hill I can't ride on and I'll.... well, just go somewhere else. The whole "locals" problem isn't a problem we need, in my view.

I really don't like this direction at all. I don't want segregation or limits on good riders, irrespective of their style or where they live. Bad riders just need to learn how to behave, IMHO.

My definition of bad riders includes:

• Those who carve across the slope without looking uphill. These people are relying on other people to avoid them. The rules may protect them, but it's still rude and stupid.
  
• Those who ride the fall line assuming the previous class of bad rider doesn't exist when clearly they do.
  

You can whine every time someone fails to stop as you put your foot on a crossing, but perhaps it's better just to learn to deal with it.

[Fastskiguy]

After that it was a yelling match for a couple minutes....

I'm not a violent person but there could have been a "crime of passion" there really easily....

[scrapster]

Lets start with something simple...posting the mountain rules and etiquette on the lift towers again. (This used to be common, now all I see are restaurant and condo ads.) Would be great backup in a argument. "Could you read the sign on tower #7 ?!"

Luckily, most of the time I've encountered problems in this area it truly was just ignorance--and there were no injuries via collision or altercation. Moreoften, people were embarrassed being dressed down. They were clearly new to the mountain and quickly learned that they had stepped into another culture they knew nothing about. It may have been Saturday night, but this wasn't the mall.

Every now and then you do meet the big attitude teen, or worse, the confrontational adult. Yes, I have heard, "It's a free country! You can't tell me how to ski/ride!"

[queequeg]

Lets start with something simple...posting the mountain rules and etiquette on the lift towers again. (This used to be common, now all I see are restaurant and condo ads.) Would be great backup in a argument. "Could you read the sign on tower #7 ?!"

I agree with this : people just simply have to be made aware of the rules. There should be a big ass sign when you get off the lift: the downhill skier/rider has the right of way. Ski with care ... bla bla bla ... Additionally, people who come to the mountain on bus trips should be read the skiers/riders code. I used to take bus trips from NYC to southern VT resorts, and you have to wait ten minutes or so for the company conducting the tour to go get tickets ... why not use that time to make the people on the bus aware of the rules, just read them and explain them while they are waiting for their lift tickets. I remember when the bus went to okemo some dude from okemo would get on the bus and blather on about the weather and never mentioned the friggin' code once ... drove me friggin' crazy. There is a very simple answer to this: you should not be able to buy a lift ticket without being read the code.

[BlueB]

Not much good for visitors; just tell me which bits of your hill I can't ride on and I'll.... well, just go somewhere else. The whole "locals" problem isn't a problem we need, in my view.

I really don't like this direction at all. I don't want segregation or limits on good riders, irrespective of their style or where they live. Bad riders just need to learn how to behave, IMHO.

My definition of bad riders includes:

• Those who carve across the slope without looking uphill. These people are relying on other people to avoid them. The rules may protect them, but it's still rude and stupid.
  
• Those who ride the fall line assuming the previous class of bad rider doesn't exist when clearly they do.
  

You can whine every time someone fails to stop as you put your foot on a crossing, but perhaps it's better just to learn to deal with it.

Phil's pretty much on the money. Segregation is bad. It could backfire on us, as a group, big time.

I admit that sometimes after a few fast turns I stop looking uphill. Somehow your own speed can lure you into feeling that no one would catch up. Then suddenly the "bomber" that was just a dot on top of the hill, when I started the run, is zooming by...

Yup, more signs and more awareness would be good.

I believe that the small print on the tickets, at most resorts, says something about "...I declare that I red and understand the Skiers' Code..."

[bjvircks]

I don't think more & bigger signs would make any difference.

Dipsticks run stop signs and red lights in cars just because they can. They drive without insurance or valid licenses all the time. They drive drunk repeatedly. What leads you think a sign will make a difference when this is the way people as a whole seem to be heading?

I don't see a way out of this unless the idiot offenders who hurt others get prosecuted by the wounded. There is no reason I or MY insurance should pay if an idiot breaks my back. Resorts don't want to be saddled with implementing a competency screening for guests or caught with insurance liabilities for failing to properly enforce a screening.

It sure looks to me like it is 'every man for himself' on the hill.

[photodad2001]

Honestly, i think if it were cheaper to get into, the market for alpine would grow to at least that of the telemark ski market

Careful there, I've made that comment before and nearly had my head chopped off.:lol:

[photodad2001]

I'm not a violent person but there could have been a "crime of passion" there really easily....

After the patroler dismissed the 3 pricks he told me I handled myself very calmly and had it been him he would be looking for work after the event. He also appologized (not that he did anything) and said he hoped this wouldn't keep me from coming back. I told him I'd be back, just not on Fridays.

[scrapster]

I'm certainly not against prosecution or civil action against those who cause damage. That's fine with me. Though I'd hate to see what insurance premiums would look like if they started asking each of us if we are skiers or snowboarders.

I guess whether you think signage would work or not depends on your view of the "human nature" side of things, which, obviously, is a complicated matter.

You're always going to have the idiots who don't have the maturity, intelligence, or moral underpinnings to care about the skier's/rider's code. (I can't help think of high school driver's ed classes and how most teens don't understand the serious nature of driving a car until someone in their class inevitably dies from doing something stupid behind the wheel--then they act shocked.)

Call me an optimist, but I don't think that's the majority. I learned the code from my father when he was teaching me how to ski. And I'll still call out "on your right/left" to people downslope occasionally. (Scares the sh*t out of them :p) The more people who just "pick up" the sport like it was rollerblading or jogging, rather than learning it from a qualified instructor or seasoned friend or relative, the less knowledge there is on the hill. And while that probably is the unfortunate trend, a lack of knowledge can be fixed, whereas a lack of sense usually can't.

[photodad2001]

I don't think more & bigger signs would make any difference.

I don't think it will change how people ride, but had there been a big sign at the lift line there would have been something in writing, on hill, that could have been refrenced to end the arguement about who was right before having the patrol make a statement. But like someone else already said, these guys were too big of pricks to admit they were wrong regaurdless.

I don't see a way out of this unless the idiot offenders who hurt others get prosecuted by the wounded. There is no reason I or MY insurance should pay if an idiot breaks my back. Resorts don't want to be saddled with implementing a competency screening for guests or caught with insurance liabilities for failing to properly enforce a screening.

It sure looks to me like it is 'every man for himself' on the hill.

I completely agree. I think before getting your lift ticket you should have to take a short test to be sure you know the rules and regulations of the slope. Kinda like a drivers test, and if you don't pass you watch a short 15-20 minute film and take the test again. Of course, once you took it and passed it would go into the system and you wouldn't have to take it every time you went, but at least if something did happen it would be documented that all parties involved knew so there could be no arguing it.

I will be looking out for those 3 next time I go up by myself.:boxing_sm:mad::flamethro:eplus2: