Another: "He turned right in front of me!" post

[photodad2001]

And I'll still call out "on your right/left" to people downslope occasionally.

I've told my daughter to do the same thing when we are on beginner runs. I also had a skier give one of those ear peircing whistles when he passed while I was on a toeside. Just about scared the crap out of me!:lol:

[DiveBomber]

wheres the keystone cops when you need em?

[photodad2001]

Not much good for visitors; just tell me which bits of your hill I can't ride on and I'll.... well, just go somewhere else. The whole "locals" problem isn't a problem we need, in my view.

I really don't like this direction at all. I don't want segregation or limits on good riders, irrespective of their style or where they live. Bad riders just need to learn how to behave, IMHO.

My definition of bad riders includes:

• Those who carve across the slope without looking uphill. These people are relying on other people to avoid them. The rules may protect them, but it's still rude and stupid.
  
• Those who ride the fall line assuming the previous class of bad rider doesn't exist when clearly they do.
  

You can whine every time someone fails to stop as you put your foot on a crossing, but perhaps it's better just to learn to deal with it.

I agree, the "locals only" approach would only cause more problems.

I disagree to a point about the need to constantly keep looking up hill. When I start my run, I wait till I know I'm going to be the only one going at that time and maybe after about half way down or so I may glance back a second time but I'm going to spend most of my attention downhill where I am going, and where it is supposed to be so I don't take out any people I may be passing. I also ride with my daughter in front because she is still learning and can't keep an eye out behind her. This was a pack of 3 guys out of control and in this case, where there were 2 riders on the slope, 2 of the 3 hit both of us, I'm finding the numbers a bit disturbing. Good thing I didn't bring a friend or there's a better than average chance he would have gotten clipped too.

[queequeg]

And I'll still call out "on your right/left" to people downslope occasionally. (Scares the sh*t out of them :p)

That's nice but: you are uphill from them, and they have the right of way ... if for any reason you should collide with them, this will not change the facts that you could see them, and they could not see you and you collided with them from behind.

[philw]

I wasn't commenting on your specific case there of course - out of control people are a problem and your approach sounds entirely reasonable to me.

I was using a helmet cam the other week though and found it extremely restricting. I want to keep looking over my shoulder all the time when riding, and it's hugely obvious if you have to keep your head still for the camera. I managed to find some empty runs and that was kind of ok, but I felt exposed and I really did not like not knowing what's behind me. That even though on those days I was never overtaken by anyone.

But it's a choice: I don't wear helmets and things, but I do make sure I don't get hit from behind. It's all a question of how you assess your risks.

But back to the OP, I guess my point is that you can whine about rules and stuff, but when it comes down to it, with out of control people rules aren't really much help to you. Evasive tactics are much more use. Yeah, the speed cops ought to nail them, but they're too busy harassing hard booters ;-)

[Buell]

I disagree to a point about the need to constantly keep looking up hill. When I start my run, I wait till I know I'm going to be the only one going at that time and maybe after about half way down or so I may glance back a second time but I'm going to spend most of my attention downhill where I am going, and where it is supposed to be so I don't take out any people I may be passing.

If you are so focused on your turns that you are not able to know what is in front, coming from the sides, and coming up from behind, you are taking a big risk. Some attention must be reserved for watching out for other people. Our motion is the unique one on the hill and, like it or not, rules or not, we must be the ones to watch out for the unaware skiers and boarders.

Riding with your kids is a completely different beast and I do not envy anyone trying to protect their kids from oblivious / out of control riders.

[bjvircks]

And I'll still call out "on your right/left" to people downslope occasionally.

I do this also, but almost exclusively on narrow cat tracks that link runs. But this has come back to bite me from time to time. I like to let folks know I'm coming up on them so they are not startled when I appear beside them... but there have been more than a few times when I've called out 'coming up on your right' and had the person turn to look over their right shoulder and veer way over, right into my line, sometimes leaving me with few good options.

Now as I come up on someone I do a quick assesment of what their abilities seem to be and choose whether or not to call out my approach. The basis for my choice is the greatest good for all. A parent with children?... I usually call out real early shout so they understand early and we all have more options. An obviously skilled skier/rider?... a quick callout as I get close just so we both know there is traffic nearby and don't do anything unexpected. A dumb jibber?... I just cruise up quietly and push him over the edge into the trees.

[photodad2001]

If you are so focused on your turns that you are not able to know what is in front, coming from the sides, and coming up from behind, you are taking a big risk. Some attention must be reserved for watching out for other people. Our motion is the unique one on the hill and, like it or not, rules or not, we must be the ones to watch out for the unaware skiers and boarders.

Riding with your kids is a completely different beast and I do not envy anyone trying to protect their kids from oblivious / out of control riders.

I am extremely visually aware of what is below and to my left and right, maybe even upper left and upper right, but I'd have to call you out, and anyone else on here if you expect me to believe, after seeing all the hundreds of videos I've watched of people riding (and not one person looking behind them) that anyone else here pays that kind of attention up hill. Watch the videos on here or on youtube and count the number of consecutive turns made before anyone looks up hill. Most never look up at all. Sorry, but seeing is believing and I've seen eyes front and to the side at best. Now I listen to my surroundings, and because I heard the second baggy panted rider I was able to alter course, while all he could manage is sliding on his edge with no course change at all. So we could start an argument against carvers wearing ipods with head phones or ear buds, but I don't think we need to get that far off topic.

[photodad2001]

But back to the OP, I guess my point is that you can whine about rules and stuff, but when it comes down to it, with out of control people rules aren't really much help to you. Evasive tactics are much more use. Yeah, the speed cops ought to nail them, but they're too busy harassing hard booters ;-)

What really pissed me off was here's a group of high school aged guys and they take out a little girl and not a word was said. Had my daughter broke her arm I can tell you right now the ending of this story would have been different.

[Buell]

I am extremely visually aware of what is below and to my left and right, maybe even upper left and upper right, but I'd have to call you out, and anyone else on here if you expect me to believe, after seeing all the hundreds of videos I've watched of people riding (and not one person looking behind them) that anyone else here pays that kind of attention up hill. Watch the videos on here or on youtube and count the number of consecutive turns made before anyone looks up hill. Most never look up at all. Sorry, but seeing is believing and I've seen eyes front and to the side at best. Now I listen to my surroundings, and because I heard the second baggy panted rider I was able to alter course, while all he could manage is sliding on his edge with no course change at all. So we could start an argument against carvers wearing ipods with head phones or ear buds, but I don't think we need to get that far off topic.

Ride how you like, but I will repeat, you are taking a big risk. Carvers need to know what is coming from behind them.

It is not that hard to look uphill every 2 to 5 turns (situation dependent). If you cannot do it, you are probably riding slopes or speeds that are over your ability.

[scrapster]

It is amazing how fast a straightliner can overtake you, seemingly out of nowhere.

Which brings up an unsettling thought--the same wide, long runs that carvers seek out are also the most tempting for people to bomb down without turning.

I guess I'm therefore in agreement that it best to look uphill as much as you can.

[dingbat]

My goggles are so scratched up I can't see uphill or downhill and most slopes and speeds are beyond my ability.

[monodude]

On a local hill here, (Loveland), we have several stopping points on each of the runs we like to ride on, often at a breakover point. We pull up and stop and wait for "the gap", above and below. That way the interactions/altercations are cut to a minimum. Often the first one to a stop point will hold 1 arm up for clear or crossed arms for traffic below if someone is on a good run, or wants a lttle air. We also space ourselves when riding together as well. I ride a Skwal and look uphill at least everyother turn. Despite all the precautions stuff happens

Don

Feed the addictions:eplus2:

[Buell]

Hey Monodude,

Aren't you in one of those videos we've seen here? ;)

A signal system is a good idea when riding with multiple riders.

Saw some monoboards here at Powder Mountain today. Reminded me of when you all came with Monopalooza last year.

[photodad2001]

Ride how you like, but I will repeat, you are taking a big risk. Carvers need to know what is coming from behind them.

It is not that hard to look uphill every 2 to 5 turns (situation dependent). If you cannot do it, you are probably riding slopes or speeds that are over your ability.

Now this is only meant in the same context your statement to me was... if you are looking up hill every 2-5 turns you are lollygagging it and are more likely to be overtaken and like I said before, you are talking about something that apparently only yourself actually does cause I don't see anybody doing that both on hill or in any videos I've seen. This was the first time this season this happened and as I said before the fact that 2 out of 3 of the riders at fault hit 2 for 2 of the downhill riders shows that this was not just a normal incident of your typical accidental collisions. I heard and saw the second rider and made evasive manuvers and kept the collision to a mere touch. I didn't even fall but the other guy had already sat down before he even got to me and had no way to turn left or right. Also remember this happened at the bottom of the run only 30 or so yards from the lift line (just one lift pole out of the wheel house) where a crowd of people were stopped, we were both slowing down and they had no intention. I've seen people outside the ropes standing in line get taken out. Should they have to take responsibility to make sure idiots don't come screaming into the line and then last second lose control? I've seen guys like this take it fast all the way past the lift lines right through a crowd of people on foot, straight to the lodge so they could try to spray a friend. No, I don't want the resort to become so rule oriented that it zaps all the fun from going out and riding, but when a 180lb. rider collides at high speed with a much younger 70lb. rider and doesn't give a sh$# and plans on not even acknowledging anything happend while my daughter had the crap scared out of her because she couldn't even see it coming people need to get in their faces and let them know this behavior is not tolerated. I honestly see rubbernecking having it's own list of risks as well. Now if I was out west on a 2+ mile run I'd check more than once, but these quarter of a mile runs I'm on one look back should be more than enough. The only other time in the past 3 years I've been hit was where 2 runs were coming together and I was already turning away from the other rider, but he was coming off an air and was doing all he could already to stay on his feet. He ran right into the base of my board and somehow we both stayed up.

[photodad2001]

My goggles are so scratched up I can't see uphill or downhill and most slopes and speeds are beyond my ability.

But with my goggles on how will I be able to see?

Your eyes can deceive you, don't trust them.

Stretch out with your feelings Luke.

[Sultan Guy]

Some good comments in this thread. I am paranoid of getting hit when there are others on the hill. So much so, that it effects my concentration on carving and I back off. I do try and look for a "gap" and then hit that but every mountain will have some careless people bombing that can come from nowhere.

So far I have been lucky. I just try and avoid the more crowded times/slopes as best I can.

Seems like you have to strike a balance between defensive carving and letting it rip so you can link lots of turns at a decent speed.

[Buell]

if you are looking up hill every 2-5 turns you are lollygagging it

I am not sure how being able to look up hill translates to lollygagging, but it might in your riding. Please stop advocating not looking uphill. It is dangerous.

Why don't you come ride with me and see if you can hang. :rolleyes:

[photodad2001]

On a local hill here, (Loveland), we have several stopping points on each of the runs we like to ride on, often at a breakover point. We pull up and stop and wait for "the gap", above and below. That way the interactions/altercations are cut to a minimum. Often the first one to a stop point will hold 1 arm up for clear or crossed arms for traffic below if someone is on a good run, or wants a lttle air. We also space ourselves when riding together as well. I ride a Skwal and look uphill at least everyother turn. Despite all the precautions stuff happens

Don

Feed the addictions:eplus2:

Loveland? I'm sure I'd be stopping at spots down the way too, but with a 300ft. vertical you are probably riding further before you stop than I when I take the whole run from top to bottom. Throw in 17 packed tour busses of high school ski club members and a packed parking lot and it's a recipe for disaster. The only real solution is stay away from the weekends and friday evenings.

[photodad2001]

I am not sure how being able to look up hill translates to lollygagging, but it might in your riding. Please stop advocating not looking uphill. It is dangerous.

Why don't you come ride with me and you might learn something. :rolleyes:

Let me know when you get to Mad River Oh or Perfect North In. Unless you're buying.:)

[refried]

If your not looking behind you (uphill) your as much of a problem as someone straighlining the run. If I was to make a quick turn and was hit from behind I'd blame myself as much as the uphill rider, just because I'm downhill it doesn't give me the right to cut someone off.

[carvedog]

If your not looking behind you (uphill) your as much of a problem as someone straighlining the run. If I was to make a quick turn and was hit from behind I'd blame myself as much as the uphill rider, just because I'm downhill it doesn't give me the right to cut someone off.

if you are downhill you are not "cutting" anyone off.

[scrapster]

if you are downhill you are not "cutting" anyone off.

Yup. I think the only caveat to this is if you're starting from a stop below other skiers/riders. (Kind of like if you are pulling into traffic on a road.) But if you're already moving and turning--there person looking downhill has better vision of you and should be anticipating changes to your course. The key here is "should." People should be thinking while on the hill--so best be safe and look yourself. Winning an argument won't matter if you have a broken back.

Still, the traffic analogy carries even further. Drivers often have to stop or swerve suddenly. If the driver behind crashes into you, the VAST majority of the time its their fault. Yes, you stopped suddenly, but the driver behind was either going too fast, not paying attention, or tailgating--all of which are negligent or reckless.

[photodad2001]

Still, the traffic analogy carries even further. Drivers often have to stop or swerve suddenly. If the driver behind crashes into you, the VAST majority of the time its their fault. Yes, you stopped suddenly, but the driver behind was either going too fast, not paying attention, or tailgating--all of which are negligent or reckless.

I'm with you 100% on this one. If you are driving and have to turn or brake suddenly to avoid, oh let's say from hitting a child running into the road, and you are rear ended by the car behind you, the car with the front end damage always gets the citation. Saying it's the downhill person's responsibility is only taking responsibility away from the up hill rider and will end up encouraging them to take their behavior further. If I was one of those guys reading this (not that I would be on here) I'd be thinking to myself, "Yeah!!! It was all his fault and next time I'll be sure he's the one who has to leave 10 minutes early! I might even take a copy of Buell's coment to show the patroler he's wrong!"

I think at my hill there needs to be more enforcement than there is and sending riders off the hill when the slope closes in 10 minutes anyways is not a suitable result in my opinion. The patroler should have taken their names and writen them up so when they do it next time (and there isn't a IF, but a WHEN) then he can make sure a suitable punishment is given.

[photodad2001]

if you are downhill you are not "cutting" anyone off.

Plus 3 (me, my daughter, and my friend "Rumeo")