Sidewinder Unveiled

[DEON]

I used these all last season, they are amazing in every condition once you dial them in to how you ride. They are by far the most versitile binding out there because you can make them amazingly soft for a -100lbs person and stiffen them up for a person +250lbs.

As for the height, I believe that fin has said that they are not much taller then the td'2 and f2's.

The step in issue is that a whole new top receiver would need to be made, you couldn't/wouldn't want to bolt a step in platform onto the top receiver because you would hinder the movement of the binding. The step in receiver would need to be made out of steal as well because the fin tec would destroy a aluminum receiver

thats just my 2 cents, hopefully fin has more answers for you guys at some point

[neil sunday]

I have all last season on them as well... they are the finest binding i have ridden in 22 years of hardbooting...

After over 125 days of mostly gate training and racing on them, I have yet to have a tweak, crack, bend or malfunction in this binding.

Buy without hestiation! Worth every hard-earned penny, euro or whatever currency you earn!

[Hans]

I have all last season on them as well... they are the finest binding i have ridden in 22 years of hardbooting...

After over 125 days of mostly gate training and racing on them, I have yet to have a tweak, crack, bend or malfunction in this binding.

Buy without hestiation! Worth every hard-earned penny, euro or whatever currency you earn!

What's the plus above 'normal' (TD3) bindings, please explain.

[DEON]

The benefit over the normal td3 is the extra lateral flex that the toe and heal blocks give. Most of the world cup riders are using F2's because the plastic flex's giving them extra lateral flex, some riders even go as far as having the bindings dangerously loose to get even more lateral flex out of these f2's.

The sidewinders do what the f2's do with out sacrificing safety.

[Hans]

I like this idea a lot but I just switched to intec for all my boards to spare my worn knees.

[fin]

Big thanks to everyone for their patience on this product. And great to see the response so far has been positive.

Let me try and answer some questions that have been asked here:

Big Canuck: agree, would be one killer product with the combo of SI and the SideWinder. Reason you do not see this right now is it will be a much more challenging task to bend a steel receiver that will work with the SW mechanism. And this would also involve some expensive tooling that we just cannot do right at this time. So for now, it is the standard version only. An SI one might be next but certainly will be a while.

KingCrimson: using different durometer E-Pads is a better way to go than to pre-load (more or less) a single E-Pad. One, it would be hard to install the E-Pads and two if you wanted really soft you might be so “thin” you have no-preload at all (not good in this configuration). Just like the spring world it is considered “cheesy” to just shim a spring to act like you want. You end up giving something up that way, either travel of that spring or incorrect pre-load at start of travel. Best to pick the right spring (in this case E-Pad) for the job.

There is some pre-load in the system in the neutral position. This was a VERY import aspect of the design because without preload the binding would have a “dead-spot” or a floating point where the rider would have no input into the binding. This would be similar to the play you would feel in an old cars steering wheel. Not good for control.

BlueB: a Retro-Kit is currently on hold. We made a moderate batch of these (entire binding) for now to see how it is received. However, I would like to do a retro-kit soon after this run. But this may not be until next season at this point.

And will not fit on a TD2 Base Plate as they do not have the “clearance” grooves machined in them.

TD4: Yea, I agree, it is a major change to the binding. But for now it is its own model (TD3 SW) and if you remember we even had something similar with the TD2 when you added the “Suspension Kit”. This was simple a prelude to the TD3. Dang, have not even thought of the TD4 and what it needs to have. I think we need a new thread!

RCrobar: Yes, when I get back into town I plan to post an exploded version of entire SW sole block assembly. It is pretty basic but for me the goal was to make it as simple as possible but crazy strong and reliable. For example, the upper and lower blocks pivot around each other on a single pin pivot. That pivot is simply captured by the installation of the Lug Shaft, so not tools, nuts, threads to deal with. One part holds the other in place. Anyway, look for that exploded picture next week. Bug me if you do not see it by then!

DEON and Neil Sunday: thanks for the compliments on the bindings (racers who has been on since last season). And you bring up a great aspect of the SW I never really thought of until it happened. We have some teams that have some very small and light weight racers (sub 100 lbs). These racers are so small they even have trouble getting displacement out of the current plastic bindings. However, with the SW and the super soft E-Pads (yellow) you can get even a small/light rider to move the binding left to right. I even saw some of these racers cut the E-Pad out to get more travel.

Hans: DEON nailed it with:

The benefit over the normal td3 is the extra lateral flex that the toe and heal blocks give. Most of the world cup riders are using F2's because the plastic flex's giving them extra lateral flex, some riders even go as far as having the bindings dangerously loose to get even more lateral flex out of these f2's.

The sidewinders do what the f2's do with out sacrificing safety.

Safety and reliability is currently plaguing the race scene as far as certain bindings go. With boards faster than ever, subplates adding more weight than ever, and of course racers pushing the envelope more than ever, the current favorite binding in the race scene is taxed beyond it limits (IMHO).

Ask Sigi Grabner how his race in Telluride went last month? He made it the finals, and half way in had a binding failure that cost him the race as well as severally injured his foot. All during an Olympic Year and racing leading up to qualifying for the Olympics. Kind of an important race. My hope is that the TD3 SW gives the racer the feel they want but not the safety issue they currently deal with on other bindings.

We will also have several sets of the TD3 SW at the SES in Aspen so if anyone is interested they can try them there. We also plan to get a set out to Jack for his much anticipated article on the current snowboards and general gear used in World Cup racing and how it relates to the everyday carver.

For all those who already ordered just be a little more patient as they are ready to go but we need to finish the instruction sheet. They are fairly straight forward so if you don’t need the instructions just drop a line to Michelle saying “Instructions? I don’t need no stinking instructions” and we’ll send them out ASAP.

Honestly, the biggest task with the SW is changing the E-Pads. I am going to post a new post soon for this as I want to take a few pictures.

Anymore questions, just ask away:biggthump

[lonbordin]

I have all last season on them as well... they are the finest binding i have ridden in 22 years of hardbooting...

After over 125 days of mostly gate training and racing on them, I have yet to have a tweak, crack, bend or malfunction in this binding.

Buy without hestiation! Worth every hard-earned penny, euro or whatever currency you earn!

So you're saying your profile is in need of updating? :D

"Current bindings and set-up?:

F2 Bindings / Hangl Plates / 53F 53R"

[nils]

The benefit over the normal td3 is the extra lateral flex that the toe and heal blocks give. Most of the world cup riders are using F2's because the plastic flex's giving them extra lateral flex, some riders even go as far as having the bindings dangerously loose to get even more lateral flex out of these f2's.

The sidewinders do what the f2's do with out sacrificing safety.

Interesting: Jacques (Rilliet) said that for at least a decade, and he was called either a fool, a suicidal man, or wrong...( forum archives...)

As for the TD3SW: We also get the chance to ride them ( I did) the full season, and they not only add lateral flex, but also much more forgiveness on wide EC boards such as we are using. When riding with much lower angles, tiny body misplacements ( toward nose or tail) can have big effect on the efficiency of the deep carve. The SW helps in correcting those in comfort, making it also easier to achieve technical turns. Last good thing: no more bended/broken bails on lower angles since the lateral moves are taken care of by the urethane, not the bails anymore !

Greeeeat product imho :). EC approved :)

Nils

[leeho730]

Hi fin,

I'd like to ask a question. How many E-pads (urethane pad that goes under the sole block) are included in the box? Can I have an option to have only yellow E-pads, so that I can have more yellow ones? :D I weigh about 140 lbs so I don't think I'll need blue ones. Is there any option to buy them separately in the future?

Thanks!

[Mike T]

Awesome that you will have some SES demoes - I very much look forward to trying them.

[skategoat]

Hi Fin

The SideWinders look just excellent!

Interesting how some of the bests ideas seem so simple ... after someone else has spent a billion hours working and thinking about it!

Feels a bit like the old Emery Surf bindings from years ago have just been reborn with sound design, engineering and beautiful craftsmanship! Our small alpine world or riders is lucky to have Fin and his team working hard for all of us.

Question - Is it possible for one of the Bomber staff to post an exploded view of the Sidewinder, it isn't clear to me how the E-Pads are changed.

Enjoy your time off!

Rob

PS - It will be interesting to see if the SideWinder ends up on the podium in 2010?

I figured you'd be all over this one. And at $449.00, you didn't need that second kidney anyways.

[martyagt4]

Well as for the step-in receiver, perhaps making it out of aluminum as before, but machine the area that wears the most for a hardened steel insert. Wouldn't need to have the entire hole that the Fintec pin rides in to be all steel.

Make it fairly thick at the bottom to register into the aluminum, then drill it and tap it. Come at it from the outside with a countersunk screw to hold it in. Sounds complicated, but nothing that Bomber Industries can't handle.

Maybe I'm just crazy.

[Michael Pukas]

Hey Fin - great to hear such praise from he racers that have been on the bindings for some time!

Honestly, re: SI SW, I wonder... I have quite a bit of play in my SI TD3's at the moment, and it bugs me. I've tried to get them as tight as possible, even making Fin laugh at me by turning the shoulder bolts 1/2 turn and putting the pivot pin in through the other side. SI's are not as tight as toe clips - it's part of the nature of the design. But the SW has controled movement side to side, not front to back. On my SI'd I have a bit slop all around. I ownder if the little bit of play in SI's combined with the SW side-to-side movement would be too much?

[bjvircks]

I have a thought about a potential issue with a SI Sidewinder. With the toe plate and heel plate both 'floating' independantly would there be an issue with getting both pins fully engaged consistently? I have enough on my mind with just snow/ice buildup on the bottom of my heel, much less wondering if both pins latched. I can see my inside pin when I've stepped in but I cannot contort myself far enough to see if the outside pin has engaged fully.

[Jack M]

Hey Fin - great to hear such praise from he racers that have been on the bindings for some time!

Honestly, re: SI SW, I wonder... I have quite a bit of play in my SI TD3's at the moment, and it bugs me. I've tried to get them as tight as possible, even making Fin laugh at me by turning the shoulder bolts 1/2 turn and putting the pivot pin in through the other side. SI's are not as tight as toe clips - it's part of the nature of the design. But the SW has controled movement side to side, not front to back. On my SI'd I have a bit slop all around. I ownder if the little bit of play in SI's combined with the SW side-to-side movement would be too much?

I used to have that play, but I was able to eliminate it with the macro and micro adjustments. *shrug* You can get away with turning only one shoulder bolt, if you didn't already try that.

[DEON]

Hi fin,

I'd like to ask a question. How many E-pads (urethane pad that goes under the sole block) are included in the box? Can I have an option to have only yellow E-pads, so that I can have more yellow ones? :D I weigh about 140 lbs so I don't think I'll need blue ones. Is there any option to buy them separately in the future?

Thanks!

Each sole block has 2 pads, one on each side of the pin, 2X4=8.

I weigh 155lbs, I am a very aggressive racer and the way I have mine setup is blue under the blocks and yellow erings. I have tried blue and blue but didnt get the flex I wanted and yellow and yellow I found it was too much.

hope that helps your decision

[martyagt4]

Each sole block has 2 pads, one on each side of the pin, 2X4=8.

I weigh 155lbs, I am a very aggressive racer and the way I have mine setup is blue under the blocks and yellow erings. I have tried blue and blue but didnt get the flex I wanted and yellow and yellow I found it was too much.

hope that helps your decision

And I suppose there is no reason you couldn't mix it up also, with yellows under toe, and blues under heal or vice-versa. . Wonder if that would work out to be in between to two.. Hmm.

[BlueB]

And I suppose there is no reason you couldn't mix it up also, with yellows under toe, and blues under heal or vice-versa. Wonder if that would work out to be in between to two.. Hmm.

I believe that would be a pretty bad idea. One end of the boot would try to "drop" more then the other, introducing some twist and putting unnecessary load onto the bails.

However, you probably could mix it on the latteral vs. medial side of your boot. Like, yellow on medial, toe and heel, blue latteral, toe and heel...

[martyagt4]

I believe that would be a pretty bad idea. One end of the boot would try to "drop" more then the other, introducing some twist and putting unnecessary load onto the bails.

However, you probably could mix it on the latteral vs. medial side of your boot. Like, yellow on medial, toe and heel, blue latteral, toe and heel...

Yeah, ok. That sounds like a better idea.

[queequeg]

I believe that would be a pretty bad idea. One end of the boot would try to "drop" more then the other, introducing some twist and putting unnecessary load onto the bails.

However, you probably could mix it on the latteral vs. medial side of your boot. Like, yellow on medial, toe and heel, blue latteral, toe and heel...

I'm not sure how well that would work either - as I understand it Fin has designed these with some preload to make sure there is no "dead spot" in the binding flex at the most neutral float point. I could be wrong but different e-pads with preload seems like it would cause the binding platform to cant out (or in) towards the direction of the softer epad, causing that side of the binding to have less roll than the other (stiffer) side. It also seems like it might re-introduce a dead spot somewhere in the range of float.

[Michael Pukas]

I'm not sure how well that would work either - as I understand it Fin has designed these with some preload to make sure there is no "dead spot" in the binding flex at the most neutral float point. I could be wrong but different e-pads with preload seems like it would cause the binding platform to cant out (or in) towards the direction of the softer epad, causing that side of the binding to have less roll than the other (stiffer) side. It also seems like it might re-introduce a dead spot somewhere in the range of float.

Fin told me last year that some racers were already doing just that - having different e-pads on the inside vs the outside so they could control how much inward vs outward movement they had.

[queequeg]

Fin told me last year that some racers were already doing just that - having different e-pads on the inside vs the outside so they could control how much inward vs outward movement they had.

I guess that makes sense ... I don't know why I thought of the canting as necessarily a bad thing, I suppose that if you want it, it's a good thing.

[Thor VonRippington]

My two cents on TD3 Sidewinders...

I got to ride the Sidewinders last spring and it took all of two turns to be completely stoked. To me, the Sidewinder is hands down the biggest improvement to carving... EVER. It's even bigger than metal boards and the new school shapes (which I happen to think are amazing improvements).

Keep in mind... the Sidewinder isn't for everyone. I know there are plenty of folks who love their TD3s and would not want any more lateral movement than they offer (some would like even less movement). Like any piece of equipment in this sport it is still all a matter of taste and what you have become accustom to while riding

As some of you know, I have been riding bindings with 5mil bails for twenty years or so. I tried all the 6mil options (as well as step ins) and just found them to be too stiff for my free carve taste... I NEED lateral movement. After extensive testing of everything I could get my hands on, I settled on the Ibex binding. There were other 5mil bail options that had a similar (and in some cases better) ride quality, but I found them difficult to use with my set up. Until the Sidewinder came along, I have always liked the seven degree toe and heel cants (lift at extreme angles) that come with the Ibex bindings. I realize this is totally old school for cant setup, but just what I have become accustom to... point being... this review is basically TD3 Sidewinder vs. Ibex (which are the same as Burton Race Plates).

For the sake of comparison, I am 200lb aggressive carver. I use the Sidewinder with blue E-Pads and yellow E-Rings.

The first thing I noticed was how damp the Sidewinder rides. The Ibex has little dampening properties and the Sidewinder absorbs much of the shock to make for a comfortable and smooth ride... allowing the edges of the board to track better. This is due mainly to the E-Ring. I run the yellow E-Ring which is the dampest option... but has little to do with the lateral flex. The lateral flex of the Sidewinder (which comes from the E-Pads and hinged toe and heel blocks) is similar if not the same as the Ibex or any 5mil bail binding. I can make any movement and get to any body position necessary to keep the board tracking smoothly in all snow conditions. The big difference here is the power and precision that the Sidewinder produces during a turn. If you set a board with an Ibex binding in a tuning vice and pull upward on the toe or heel, you will see there is a lot of play and movement in those directions (different than lateral flex which is side to side). This is not the case for the Sidewinder. There is no movement in the toe and heel in an upward direction and this translates to more power and leverage (torque) in the turn. This lack of movement also allows for a much quicker and precise transition from edge to edge. Add all of this to the beefy construction that Bomber is known for and you have yourself the best alpine binding being offered on the market today for those that want lateral movement. As an added bonus, I can now play with infinite cant and lift angles to find a more powerful stance and setup.

There are only two down sides I can find to the Sidewinder vs. Ibex. First being the weight... going up the lift I want the foot rest down. I don't know the weight difference between the two bindings but it felt significant at first (some would say a little weight can lend to a smoother ride and I certainly didn't notice a problem while riding). The other was getting my back foot locked in... I ride UPZ boots and the heel bail on the back foot gave me trouble (not the case for other brands of boots).

I didn't become a better rider just by throwing a new school shaped metal board under my feet. But... I can say my riding improved quite a lot just by upgrading my bindings... even on the first few turns the Sidewinders were under my feet. The Sidewinders are free carving turny gooey goodness. Thanks Fin!

[Buell]

Thanks Thor for the post. My SWs shipped today.

I know you remember the night Rebecca and I sold all of our TD2s (lots of them) because we had tried the F2s and discovered how important lateral flex is to our riding. In fact, that the TDs were a detriment to our riding in comparison.

When you sold your Burtons (Ibexs) recently because you got some of the early SWs, I knew Fin must be onto something.

At our lightweights, I don't have concerns about breaking the F2s and I know that the SWs are much stronger binding than we need. The comparison for us will be simply on ride quality, which you touched on in your review.

I looking forward to trying them.

Happy carving!

[leeho730]

Each sole block has 2 pads, one on each side of the pin, 2X4=8.

I weigh 155lbs, I am a very aggressive racer and the way I have mine setup is blue under the blocks and yellow erings. I have tried blue and blue but didnt get the flex I wanted and yellow and yellow I found it was too much.

hope that helps your decision

Thanks!

I've been thinking about it... and I recon I'm better off with the yellow at this stage....

I remember setting TD2 quite loose, so that I would get maximum lateral flexibility. Which caused the toe clip to come out numerous times. Not good! I'll definitely buy some blue e-pads later, though.

Hopefully fin or Michelle would let me have those... but even if they won't I still want that awesome binding! :D