My day at Keystone with Mountain Watch and Patrol

[fin]

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Well, I just got back from my meeting with Keystone Resort here in Summit County, Colorado in regards to my getting a written warning on the mountain this Monday (28th). Oddly enough the meeting went great but at the same time horrible. I’ll explain that in Part 2. Ultimately, I believe this is a story any carver can relate too or eventually will. Let’s start this story from the beginning……

On Monday of this week Chris (*Ace*) and I met at Keystone to put in some turns and also try out Chris’s new mini-camera that you can mount on your helmet. I was excited about this as I always wanted to try some chase cam footage and the new Donek Metal FC I was riding made my behind look small and that is a good thing on video. I might also add this was Chris’s first time here at Keystone as he had always heard very good things.

We had a great morning doing laps on Jack Whacker with essentially no-one around. We also had Rick with us who is a brand-new carver this year and Chris and I where helping with some of the finer points of the carving learning curve. By about 11am we were done and I need to get to work. I made the terrible decision to go down a run called School Marm so we could access a run called Silver Spoon. School Marm is this horribly designed beginner run at the very top of the hill that follows the ridge line. The worst part about it (typical of a ridge line trail) is it dips up and down as you run along the ridge. That coupled with a pile of newbies it is a known fact you have to “shut it down” and just get your way safely through the mess to where you want to go. Done this hundreds of time in the 18+ year I have ridden at Keystone.

We were on the last of these “dips” just before we can turn right and get out of the boob-fest when we came onto two Mountain Watch (MW) gentlemen standing by their “Slow Sign”. Let me take a minute here to explain what these guys do to those brothers of ours over-seas who may be confused by what these guys do. They are essentially yellow jacketed guys who stand in the middle of the run and wave and blow whistles at you if they think you are going too fast and reckless. Think of “Paul Blart: Mall Cop” but on skis. Some of them are paid and some of them are volunteers, but they are there for “your safety” because in the good old USA we don’t educate people we police them.

Anywho, Chris and I have done what we all do, look for an open corridor, stay to one side, don’t do anything stupid, and keep the speed at a safe level. As I named it before “Shut it down”. So Chris and I went to the far left, in control, making the classic carver “rock side to side” mellow turns to keep our speed in check and slow. Keep in mind, this is also where the hill flattens out just before it drops again so as a boarder there is a minimum speed we have to keep or we just stop. So as I am sliding towards the MW guy I see he is waving his arms franticly and blowing on his whistle. I thought of looking behind me to see what ass-hat is racing down the hill as this MW guys was jumping around like someone was shooting at him. Then I realized he was pointing at me. As I slide by I say in a very calm and controlled voice “Sorry, this is as slow as I can go” and hold my hands out in the obligatory “what did I do” gesture. Well, this guy went nuts and as I was already past him and Chris was right behind me, Chris said he heard the guy say “I’ll show you how slow you can go….” as he is reaching for his poles.

Now, I know what you thinking, “OK, maybe Fin was being a bit reckless and maybe he is exaggerating the story a bit, etc”. But here is the good news, this is all on video as Chris was right behind me with the camera rolling. Yea, fate was smiling on us that day. So at this point I invite you to take a second and look at the video we have posted above. Keep in mind this clip represents just the section where the MW guy would be able to see me.

So I continue down the hill and make a right onto Silver Spoon where Chris comes up to me and says “Hey, that guys was mad at you, I think he is coming to get you”. I was shocked, sure I am used to seeing these guys jumping all over the hill like they have ants in their pants, but he wants to talk to me about what? OK, so as I look up, sure enough here he comes one what could have been Paul Blart on his Segway. Being a good guy I pull clear over to the side, stop and wait to hear what he has to say. Aaaaand here is where it gets wierd. The guys name was “Len” and I don’t want to make his age a topic of this story but let’s just say when France sold the US its remaining territories in the new world that was later dubbed the “Louisiana Purchase”, Len could have easily been there to watch it happen. But let’s not focus on that. Len began to list off all these apparent terrible things I had done and why I was a menace to society and all the children of the world. But then he began to get ahead of himself and started saying statements like:

Len: “You where weaving in and out of people like pillions”

Me: “No I wasn’t” (*the video clearly shows this was not the case)

Len: “You didn’t stop when I told you too”

Me: “You never told me to stop”

Len: “Well, I gave you this hand signal (puts his palms facing down and moves them up and down)

Me: “That’s the sign for slow down not stop”

Len: “You said a very nasty remark to me up top”

Me: “I said ‘sorry this is as slow as I can go’ how is that nasty? And what remarks do you prefer to hear and are considered acceptable?”

Maybe his hearing aid was turned down but it was almost like we were having two different conversations. Regardless, the conversation was not going very well. At this point a patroller, on a softboot snowboard, pulls up and asks if everything was alright. I don’t know his name at this point so we will call him “Floppy” because, well, why not. So I ask Floppy to please stick around as I was having trouble dealing with Len and I wanted a neutral third party observer. And also the fact that if Len even fell over his unchecked osteoporosis might result in him needing a sled down. I kinda felt bad for the guy. So Len and I keep playing “Who’s on first” when Floppy final sparks up and decides to claim his stake as an expert and open his mouth. Now fellow carvers I can tell you I never expected to hear this and certainly not from a patrol guy on a snowboard:

Floppy: “I’ve ridden plates likes this and I know technically all you can do is go fast”

Me: (stunned, staring at him)

Floppy: (quiet, staring back)

Me:”So just because I am on this gear I cannot go slow?”

Floppy: “Apparently not, or we would not be having this conversation”

So by Floppy’s logic if I wear a speed suit I must speed, if I telemark ski I must smoke pot, if I drive a Ferrari I should get tickets, if I am Irish I drink……more. I just had a hard time believing that Keystone Ski Patrol allowed their patrollers to publically speak what might be called “Equipment Profiling” in today’s modern times. Wow. I wanted to ask him if he had seen “Band of Brothers” and if not, please watch it again. Probably wouldn’t get the reference though.

So now I am trying not to talk to Floppy as he has his own issues, Len is babbling about how all us “kids” just need to stop listen to that darn rock music and Chris and I are just looking at each other shrugging our shoulders. During the entire conversation I was polite, never swore, and kept my voice level and civil.

Eventually Len gets to the point, asks for my pass number (which I give with no hesitation) and writes me a warning. As he hands it to me he says “This is an official written warning, but next time I get you, you lose your pass”. Hey, thanks for the warm send of Len. I felt like asking him what it was like storming the beaches of Normandy, but I thought better of it.

So Chris and I head down the hill and go back to my shop to look at the video. Honestly, I was willing to take a look at it and be prepared to say “hmmm, maybe I WAS going fast or being reckless and I just don’t know it?” It only took us looking at the video once to conclude the events of the day where nothing more than an over-zealous Mountain Watch guy who took my comment of “Sorry, this is as slow as I can go” much to personally. Maybe I am missing something here but I think if you watch the video you will see me doing something all of us do every day we are on the hill. Nothing more, nothing less. If after watching the video you disagree, I absolutely want to hear your opinion. If you see me breaking any safety proto-calls in this video, please let me know.

But it does also bring up a point that I have always thought was legitimate. By definition a carver stands out on the hill. We are and probably will be, the “Red Hearing” that you can pick-out a mile away. The turns we make, the style we use, the gear we run it is all very unique and not the norm. And if you stand at the bottom of the hill and it is full of skiers and softbooters who tend to slide down the fall line like a beach-ball let go at the top, you will notice that one loan carver who is actually going ACROSS the hill. That is our strength, that is what makes us who we are, that is what defines us, but unfortunately that will always be used against us. I am guessing there are others out there who have been victims of this bias against not just our gear but our style. Given a hard time because we have the nerve to actually use the side-cut these board manufactures work so hard to perfect and move across the hill and leave that beautiful clean trench behind us. But for the narrow minded and uneducated, this is looked at as a crime of a sort. Just as the old sticker used to say “Skateboarding is not a crime”, carving should not be a crime as well.

So off my soap-box. Please vote what you think of the attached video as I would like to send the results back to Keystone and show them what their client base thinks of their Mountain Watch and Ski Patrol programs in regards to their attitude towards alpine snowboarders.

If, after watching this video, you are a current customer of Keystone or plan to visit Keystone soon on your carving board you might want to voice to them your concerns about their Mountain Watch program or their Ski Patrol.

We called them and where given this contact information:

• E-mail for both Patrol and MW: csimson@vailresorts.com
  
• Telephone for Ski Patrol: 970-496-3101
  
• Telephone for Mountain Watch: 970-496-3539
  
• Fax for both Patrol and MW: 970-496-4287
  

And I would also like to apologies to Len for all the age cracks. That is low and I am taking cheap shots there. So next time I see a car in the fast lane going 30mph under the speed limit with its turn signal on, I’ll be thinking of you Len and the great job you do.

FYI: with a written warning I apparently lose my pass the second time this happens. So you can see why I need to contest this. Which brings us to......

Coming next: “Part 2: The Meeting with Ski Patrol and Mountain Watch Supervisors” or what I call “Guess Who Missed Anger Management Class at the Start of the Season”.

Update: Part 2 is up and can be found here on page 5 of this thread:

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=28054&page=5

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[Dave ESPI]

Notice the the white jacketed skier (or boarder) on the right side of the trail.

He was moving just as fast as you were, and you were not out of control.

Nuff said.

[scrutton]

Looks like you were barely moving...

[Fox]

Fin, I give you a lot of credit for staying cool and collected. I would have lost it on Grandpa and Floppy, and I'm normally a respectful guy. I'm interested to hear what the response was at your meeting.

[tex1230]

Was that video in slow motion? Because that's about half the speed at which I have taken that section and I am not the fastest guy out there...

Now if Ace "the straightline kid" were in the lead they would have had a legit complaint ;)

and +1 to what espi said - the guy in white on the opposite side is outrunning you

[lonbordin]

like that has a possibility of happening.

:lol:

But thanks for the slow speed carving video... As a carving beginner I can learn from this (I saw you scrub/skid!) What I mean is there are plenty of at speed videos but very few out side the norm.

Good luck!

[John H]

Wonder why the skier in the white jacket on the right of the video wasn't going too fast. He looks like he was going at least as fast as Fin if not faster. Must be ok for him 'cause he's on skis?

Good luck fighting this, the whole thing seems very unfair.

[mr_roboteye]

You threw in the necessary speed checks to satisfy caution.

One thing to remember about this video. Since the lens used is a very wide angle, it appears that you are going faster than you actually are.

later,

Dave R.

[AaronG]

From what I can see I concur with Espi and others that the guy on the right is truckin just as fast as you are. He is always in the frame so that means the speed is equal. I think you were just on the wrong side of the run, close to the "yellowjackets" that he could personally address you. The other guy on the right side just continues to ski at the same pace but there are no "yellowjackets" on that side of the run to tell him to slow down from what I can see in the video.

I don't think you are going toof fast. You're off to the side not going down the center of the run where most of the beginners and families stick to. If you were going down the center I might have some concern with that, but not off to the side of the run.

I hate the comment by the patrolman, typical of uneducated boarders. I get that sort of comment alot, "that thing must be fast"? from other freestyle snowboarders. I reply, "yeah, its fast if I point it straight down the hill, your board is fast if you point it straight down the hill also".

I was cruising a run the other day, just making some quick turns on the side of the run where all the good snow gets pushed to, like you were. Up ahead I spied a slow speed barrier with Mr. Patrolman making his way to my side of the run to possibly tell me to slow down. I was perfectly in control and just making turns. He camped out next to the sign waiting for me to arrive. I quickly cut a hard carve across the hill putting as much distance between him and I. I don't think he ever said anything, at least I didn't hear it if he did.

The lesson for me was always scan ahead and avoid confrontation with the speed nazis.

I hope it works out for you and your warning is taken off the books so you can be free to carve at Kstone to your heart's content.

[bobdea]

boy, they threatened to call our bosses at steamboat when they gave us(10 or so steamboat employees) a bunch of **** for being snowboarders as far as I could tell.

said we were all out of control. hard to imagine that a bunch of people that have to SKI OR RIDE TO WHERE THEY WORK would be out of control. one guy in the group was on his second season but it's not like we were a bunch of Joey's out and were not going fast.

other people have complained about keystone being this way as well. I avoid the place when I return to CO now. ohh well, no big loss. there's lots of great places to ride in CO.

ohh, check this out http://www.angrysnowboarder.com/?p=4229

[CARV-NY]

You were totally under control and doing nothing to cause trouble. Im just happy that we don't have yellow jacket nazi's at my local mountain. we do have parking nazi's though (story for another time). In general as long as your in control ski patrol leaves you alone. I HATE the generalization of snowboarders being drugged up knuckle dragging disrespectful A**holes :angryfire:angryfire:angryfire . and the comment from resident equipment master floppy was based in ignorance.

[Dave Pushee]

Fin is clearly going faster than most others on the trail (I think the skier in white on the opposite side of the trail was going faster at least some of the time). Perhaps Fin was "speeding", but he was clearly in control and stayed well away from all other sliders and so did not present a direct danger to others.

Mountain management is in kind of a no-win situation. Families with small kids clamor for a trail where they won't be intimidated by faster traffic and don't hesitate to let management know that someone buzzed them. I don't think any of the beginners on the trail would have felt threatened by Fin because he was never close to any of them.

One person moving faster than the prevailing flow isn't a really a safety issue, but a pack of 6 to 10 skiers or riders flying through a bunch of beginners is a threat. So the question is, how can the mountain keep things from getting out of control?

[lamby]

Thanks for posting the video and explaining in detail the situation you are dealing with. You are clearly in control and traveling at a safe rate for the conditions and the people you are overtaking. You're spot on - its a damn shame about some people's bias's about our equipment and how we ride the mountain. Appreciate this discussion.

[Seraph]

Good thing you had video.

Doesn't look like you were speeding, and you were in control and purposely avoiding others and maintaining a safe lane. Looks like you could have stopped or avoided any objects that might have jumped in your path.

Playing devils advocate, although Mr. Safety Guy didn't ask you to stop, and you aren't under any expectation to stop, I'm guessing that he was ticked that you didn't stop when he was talking to you and made the assumption that you were not under control and could not stop at a moments notice.

That being said it appears that you were following Keystone's safety code:

http://www.keystoneresort.com/ski-and-snowboard/mountain-safety.aspx

Specifically:

7. Slow Zones. Certain areas (indicated on the map in yellow) are designated as SLOW ZONES. Please observe the posted slow areas by maintaining a speed no faster than the general flow of traffic. Space and speed are especially important in these areas. Fast and aggressive skiing will not be tolerated.

"maintaining a speed no faster that the general flow of traffic" - leaves a lot of room for interpretation and opinion as no specific speeds are posted and no one is clocking you with a radar gun. Where you faster that the general flow of traffic? You visibly were maintaining a controlled speed and slowed down as you came to the slow zone. Were you faster than others approaching the same area, maybe, was your speed excessive and out of control, definitely not.

"Space and speed are especially important in these areas." - You maintained your space from others, and your rate of speed did not appear excessive.

"Fast and aggressive skiing will not be tolerated." - You did not appear to be moving fast nor in an aggressive manner.

Quite frankly if you want to make a stink, and you've tried to deal with it in a rational manner with management, then take it to the local media, but I would be careful about how you approach that. It would be a bad move to vilify the Keystone management, better to approach it as a matter of fairness to the community. Is boycottkeystone.com available?

[Loc]

You were clearly under control in your own lane of travel. MW and Patrol is full of horse sh*t and I still think the Old Dude was just power tripping and looking for someone to lecture to because his grandkids don't listen to him.

Is boycottkeystone.com available?

Time to post this all over Facebook and Twitter?

[snowboardfast]

I have had a few weird problems at Keystone as well. This incident makes me not want to go to Keystone again. It is funny that people think that because you are riding hard boots all you can do is go 50 mph.All most all of the softboot riders at Keystone fly down the groomed runs way faster than I do and don't carve at all. I had a skier follow me all the way down way too close and then when I stopped he yelled out excuse me. I was riding on the left side as far over as possible of the trail and we were the only 2 on the trail and he could have easily gone around me with out having to be close at all? I think the speed nazis think you are going faster because of the way we ride an alpine snow board and we turn harder and they are not used to seeing that and they are ignorant of our sport. Maybe we need to get a large number of hardboot riders to go up there and ride with some of the staff at Keystone to show them what can be done with hardboots both on groomed snow and all mountain.

[Ray]

Ohhhh, I am not sure what to say Fin, but I know I would not have received a warning only. Just ridiculous. Painful to see this happened to you, seriously!!!

[photodad2001]

So you got busted by the Keystone cops? :lol: Next time try this. When they come up to you wave your hand and in a calm monotone voice say, "these aren't the boards you're looking for".

[jp1]

So, I am curious, what precisely did you do wrong , maybe we can all learn from this.

I know what I learned, " you are a current customer of Keystone or plan to visit Keystone soon on your carving board you might want to voice to them your concerns about their Mountain Watch program or their Ski Patrol."

No Thank You, I'll just take my business elsewhere.

[Mtrappy]

You need to SLOW down out there buddy........ WAAAAAAAYYYYYY to fast. This is a BUNNY slope not a race course.....

[dano]

Its always worse when the authorities are morons. Way to hold it together.

That video shows you were clearly commuting in light traffic and "others" were going faster.

I think I would have let him chase me to the bottom though. Maybe you coulda lost him.

What I liked about the video was the nice quiet snow! No ice on that connection trail!

I'll be there in Feb!

[philw]

Doesn't look fast or dangerous to me, but it's not a matter of opinion, so votes make no sense to me. Either the video shows you were going to fast, or it shows you were not, or it's inconclusive. Opinion should not enter into it.

The white guy on the right looks faster to me, although just because they didn't catch him doesn't mean they can't catch you, if you see what I mean.

I'd get them to see the video and get them to retract the warning. I'd be surprised if they did not recognize on sober reflection that perhaps they were a little over-zelous this time.

I have a lot of trouble with them here in Whistler - I think they see a race board and assume you're riding a sideslip-board, or something like that. They tell me to slow down even when I'm executing slow tight turns down the side of a run and no one's near; it seems that they would rather you sideslipped than turned, even though we all know which one is more controlled.

I would say that references to age don't help your case.

[ptran11]

these patrol guys are all over the board. I've seen a newbie skier stop by the "slow" signs next to the MW people. A jubber on softies plows and takes out the sign and takes out the skier and the MW person saw the whole thing. The skier is about 15 feet from where he was standing and the jibber was 20-25 feet from the point of impact indicating the hit was at high speeds. The hit was on a green slow as well.

The jibber gets up and goes down the mountain without saying a word. The skier asked the MW person to do something and he says the guy on softies wasn't going fast. I forget if this was at Breck or Keystone.

[NateW]

Looked perfectly reasonable to me.

Mellow speed, lots of room between you and everybody else.

Looking forward to the next episode...

[DiveBomber]

info FWIW:

Dec 16, 2009 - 12:20 PM

New Head of Mountain Ops at Keystone

Articles - News - Resorts

Keystone, CO - Jeff Hill will become the new Director of Mountain Operations at Colorado's Keystone Resort effective tomorrow. Hill, a ski industry veteran has served as Ski Patrol Director at Keystone Resort for 10 years and started his career as a lift operator at Keystone in 1983. In his new role, Hill will be responsible for overseeing ski patrol, grooming, guest services, lifts, base area operations, snowmaking as well as Keystone’s A51 terrain park and cat skiing operations.

“I am thrilled to welcome Jeff to his new role,” said Doug Lovell, Vice President and Chief Operating Office at Keystone Resort. “Jeff brings more than 26 years of experience in the ski industry and I am certain that his leadership of the talented Keystone team will further enhance the guest experience and continue to position Keystone as a world-class resort.”

Throughout his tenure at Keystone Resort Hill has held numerous positions including Assistant Patrol Director, Patrol Supervisor, Base Area Manager, Lift Operation Supervisor and was also Ski Patrol at Arapahoe Basin. Hill also has been Head Golf Professional at the Keystone River Course for the past 13 years. Hill holds a B.S. in Education from Chadron State College in Nebraska. Hill will report to Doug Lovell, Chief Operating Officer of Keystone Resort."