Too steep for hard boots?

[Spiny Norman]

trying to be a little provocative. This is a follow up to my "mashed potatoes and hard boots?" question.

Here's a nice video I found of pretty good looking day at Tuckerman Ravine. This is the kind of stuff I'd like to HB in. I've done it in softies but think these days I'd get the sh*t kicked out of me since I'd be riding to protect my ankles instead of getting after it. Whaddaya think?

http://exposureroom.com/members/MegSimone.aspx/assets/340c99d13cea47528dc0829f5174086a/

thanks, Spencer

[bobdea]

too steep for hardboots?

wow, must mean you can't ride hardboots

I missed the mashed potatoes thread but same thing applies, if you can't ride either on plates you might want to get a lesson

[Hans]

Wow, nice foortage to share. Nice but steep and not very good snowconditions, bit frozen old crusty snow. Prefere my 175 Pogo Longboard here with a short sidecut. Never tried hardboots on it though. But I think I took my softies here also.

[tex1230]

I have ridden the steepest inbounds runs in north america and some in europe and south america on hardboots. I believe Jim Zellers' descent of half dome was on hardboots. I know he put down some serious lines in the early 90s on hardboots. Steve Koch also did some impressive descents, and I think he rides hardboots as well. The only slopes too steep for hardbooots would be too steep for any snowboard.

[Enzo]

I've been up there once on softboots and twice on hardboots. It's certainly doable but you take a beating going up and coming down. My pack last year weighed close to 50 lbs with all my hardboot gear. I've always gone up in late April or early May and the conditions haven't been ideal for any real carving--lots of bumps & deep runnels running up and down the bowl. I personally find that softboots are much lighter, more maneuverable, and forgiving for the variable snow conditions and steep terrain up in Tux.

t32 jib team

[GeoffV]

I've been doing Tuckermans for over a decade. I've only done it once in softboots and never again.

Enzo, if the weather holds out I'll be up there this Friday.

[b0ardski]

Crampons & AT boots are a must for spring mountaineering climbs & decents. If it's to steep for crampons you better rope up. A stiffer all mountain board is best for refrozen runnels & sun cups.

[Dave ESPI]

I did it once in 2002.

LETS JUST SAY YOU BETTER BE A GOOD HIKER!

Definately would not hike it in your softboots or hardboots.

But it is a rewarding "one run" for the day.

I might try to get up some weekend soon this year with a few friends.

Most people who go do it once, then never go back because they are lazy and out of shape. Then again there are those of us who ARE in shape, and love this sort of thing since we still see it as a "hike", but with an added bonus of being able to ride back down

[bumpyride]

Nice video. Never saw one on Tuckermans before. I thought it was not quite as steep as I had imagined. It's certainly less steep than Upper International at Alpental, where a good jump turn on skiers right drops you 10 feet or so with bumps.

For me, I would use my favorite 156 Ultraprime. Not quite as stiff as a race board, but short and light, low spin weight and bites perfectly in conditions like that. Hardboots in walk mode of course, and running 66/45 degrees (which is my usual angles. I find that I can "feather" the board on steeps when I have more forward and rearward movement. Would never use softboots on anything like that especially if one was to hit something hard.

[GeoffV]

Nice video. Never saw one on Tuckermans before. I thought it was not quite as steep as I had imagined. It's certainly less steep than Upper International at Alpental, where a good jump turn on skiers right drops you 10 feet or so with bumps.

I beg to differ, and I've got proof. First 2-3 turns you drop at least 10 feet until your edge hits snow. The pitches on the head wall are a substain pitch of 60 degrees. This is directly from the site:

Tuckerman Ravine Terrain Guide

This is me in 96 on the head wall about 3 turns down from the top.

I've got tons of pictures from each year we head up there, but it's very difficult to really capture how freaking steep the runs are.

[pokkis]

<TABLE border=BORDER width=580><TBODY><TR><TD>4</TD><TD>Center Headwall</TD><TD>90</TD><TD>60</TD><TD>E</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

How much there is 90 degrees? sounds odd value when lookin picture. I assume that all values are degrees not %.

[Steve Prokopiw]

for their support and edge hold.But that's just me.

As for actually linking clean carves together there are certainly slopes that are ridable but too steep to do that for most,if not all riders.

[tex1230]

<TABLE border=BORDER width=580><TBODY><TR><TD>4</TD><TD>Center Headwall</TD><TD>90</TD><TD>60</TD><TD>E</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

How much there is 90 degrees? sounds odd value when lookin picture. I assume that all values are degrees not %.

my experience there is limited, but there were a few lines with mandatory 8-10ft airs at the entry last time I was there. I guess that's your 90 degrees...

[queequeg]

Can't remember who, but I remember somebody posting a few pics of some people from here dropping in to tucks pretty high up on the headwall a few years ago. Was it Bob Jenney? I definitely prefer hardboots on steep terrain over my previous experiences with softboots ... not that I'm particularly adept at managing steep terrain, but I couldn't imagine wanting to try steeps without hardboots. A shorter board definitely is more manageable on the steep stuff though, imo.

[bumpyride]

I beg to differ, and I've got proof. First 2-3 turns you drop at least 10 feet until your edge hits snow. The pitches on the head wall are a substain pitch of 60 degrees. This is directly from the site:

Tuckerman Ravine Terrain Guide

This is me in 96 on the head wall about 3 turns down from the top.

I've got tons of pictures from each year we head up there, but it's very difficult to really capture how freaking steep the runs are.

Didn't see that in the video and that's steep, but again no steeper than what I was talking about. Give it a toss up at this point, but your pictures show some definite pitch.

[GeoffV]

<TABLE border=BORDER width=580><TBODY><TR><TD>4</TD><TD>Center Headwall</TD><TD>90</TD><TD>60</TD><TD>E</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

How much there is 90 degrees? sounds odd value when lookin picture. I assume that all values are degrees not %.

We've had several discussion on the forum about pitch, degrees and percent. I think some mountaints had % vs. degrees. I'm pretty sure Tuckermans are degrees not percent.

We had debates about carving über steeps in some a thread last year I believe.

queequeg,

I posted a picture of Bob Jenney hiking up a head of me. I think the run was the Chute. I can try and dig it up.

[Jack M]

I've done it both ways, and softboots *suck* for this kind of riding.

[bobdea]

I've done it both ways, and softboots *suck* for this kind of riding.

????

softies are prefered for most people doing it.

if hard boots were superior you'd see more big shots riding plates.

on older boots and bindings, yeah, point taken, the newer stuff even on the mid range is quite good.

[Rob Stevens]

You'll be better in whatever you're used to.

If you're not used to either, it won't matter... You'll suck anyway.

Give it long enough and you'll hammer steeps with no bindings and sorels.

[Jon Dahl]

I have ridden the steepest inbounds runs in north america and some in europe and south america on hardboots. I believe Jim Zellers' descent of half dome was on hardboots. I know he put down some serious lines in the early 90s on hardboots. Steve Koch also did some impressive descents, and I think he rides hardboots as well. The only slopes too steep for hardbooots would be too steep for any snowboard.

Zellers did Half Dome in A/T boots, and on a Duotone split(I think) from looking at the pictures in front of me. Koch is doing most everything in soft boots now, read a set of posts from him about 2-3 seasons ago or so, I think on splitboard.com.

[scrapster]

Here's a nice shot of some of the steeper pitches...

[scrapster]

And one for scale...

[Spiny Norman]

So in a slightly less provocative title I might have named the thread "Too steep for (it to be fun) in HB's?

meaning are HB's the tool to make steeps riding fun. No, glad to survived it fun but found the right equipment to make this descent as enjoyable as possible.

I've done L and R gully in softies but looking at hb's for the future. Thought I see what the partisans here were thinking.

Thanks for the input.

Her's some old scandinavian jibber trying his hand at big mountain stuff;

[bumpyride]

So in a slightly less provocative title I might have named the thread "Too steep for (it to be fun) in HB's?

meaning are HB's the tool to make steeps riding fun. No, glad to survived it fun but found the right equipment to make this descent as enjoyable as possible.

I've done L and R gully in softies but looking at hb's for the future. Thought I see what the partisans here were thinking.

Thanks for the input.

Her's some old scandinavian jibber trying his hand at big mountain stuff;

What? No riding switch. No double cab over and under rodeo ollie grabs. He must be retired.

Kind of a nice ride though.

[ohiomoto]

Her's some old scandinavian jibber trying his hand at big mountain stuff;

Now, that's steep! The real deal right there. So close to death...parts of that run was an out of control free fall. Crazy!!!!

Thanks for posting that up.