Hey go custom yourself.

[bumpyride]

I know we have some thread drift going, but I didn't see this coming.

The 'stuff' makes me think more of Carlin than Rooney. Although the slightly whiny tone is more Rooney.

What we really need to have happen is for everyone to buy more stuff.

Everyone stopping to buy stuff is why we are here ( uninformed and poorly founded view of world financial situation) in the first place.

With that attitude no one should ever spend more than 26 cents for a disc of software.

Not the "thing" that is being sold as much as the path to get there.

Yeah, Rooney is the Doppelganger in this case, though Carlin was the impetus.

I have to respectfully disagree. We are having a correction to the over indulgence of our society.

The problem is that we over spent for stuff that really isn't worth what we paid for it. The value of the housing market was over inflated, and when there's no one around able to pay for it, the value plummets. Now it's not only the people that paid too much for it, it's the people that leveraged their supposed reserves 33 times over and then sold them, and the people that sold credit default derivatives that brought it down. It's gains in the short term that drove the economy to the brink.

We should buy solid stuff, made primarily in the US so not to see any more of our money go out of the country. We need to buy stuff that will create more jobs here, and not necessarily add to the retailers that buy all their stuff from overseas.

Cruel fact: A share of Berkshire Hathaway that was worth $150K is now worth $86K today, and next week if no one wants one, your stock broker will do you a favor and sell it for $1.00 so you can declare a loss.

Buy US stuff that you need, otherwise you're going to add to the problem that will again manifest itself at a later date. I don't suggest that I'm a protectionist, but will say that we have to clean up our own house first. I think spending $1500 for a board is a bit overindulgent and don't ascribe to the philosophy of "if you can afford it, why not". I firmly believe that it affects all below that standard of living.

[nils]

all this stuff ends up costing us our happiness stuff, and you can't put a price on that.

I totally agree on that...why change every year when you are happy with gear that you already have...Fighting the consumption mania is what we shall all do if we want to leave something to the future gens...

Its a total off topic debate, its right so maybe should belong to another section: why we need to change gear so often..

As for this thread, from what i understand from it: basically for hardcore people that are at high riding levels, why not benefit from the lastest advances in tech and design...for the rest, its fine with all the available things we already ride....the price of some boards are just hard to justify when you just add material cost and labour...the idea of spending what some people earn in a month into a board is for me difficult, or even impossible thu...so doing this every year because tech is evolving is not my philosophy of life ( consumption as a solution for things).

I'm dreaming of a day when one board will be all that i need..

N

[pokkis]

Difference is now that today with new constructions you can get optimum relults with less boards than 2 years ago, but you still can not get from waist steep pow to blue ice with one board

But these new shapes with metal, they really are awesome

[carvedog]

We should buy solid stuff, made primarily in the US so not to see any more of our money go out of the country. We need to buy stuff that will create more jobs here, and not necessarily add to the retailers that buy all their stuff from overseas.

I was trying to say that I don't know anything about the economy, even though I used to think I knew a tiny little bit. Now I know I don't.

Not saying to overspend. I don't see how supporting the custom board builders in a niche sport is the same as overleveraged derivatives.

If we are not going to support the mass produced board that has been outsourced to the far east (NTTIAWWT), then it seems options are few. If we, as a group, are going to support someone, my vote with dollars is going to be Sean, Bruce, Chris. Haven't been able to yet, but for sure I will as soon as I can. If our "local" guy is making a few hundred ( or much less ) his cost of operations is going to be more.

It's not the 8 pounds of material that you are buying, but the mans expertise that brought it to that point.

When someone buys one of my large photographs, they are really getting about $2 worth of paper and about $3 worth of ink. Which I sell for about $100 depending on size. Fair? Factor in 35 years of cameras, repairs, school and years spent shooting, processing, printing, packaging and it starts to seem a little more reasonable.

The boards are much more than the sum of their parts. If you are supporting crafstmen, who are building things by hand on a small scale it will cost more.

And the boards then turn into usable, rideable art. What is better?

(/blog)

[Helmut Karvlow]

Billy, they are sucking you in again. don't do it, the keyboard-terrorists are far worse then the snowboard-terrorists!!

I, for one appreciate your knowledge on snowboarding.....and the stories that go with it.

[Petrol]

you guys with plentyodoe in your pockets and sweet hills in your backyards make it sounds so easy...

I wish I had not opened this thread because now I don't know what to do.

I have more hobbies then funds & time.

perhaps an online poll to help decide..

should I....

1. spend what little 'snow-sports' budget I have, local, on as much snowtime as possible while riding my ole ottadate but still fun for me gear?

2. carefully budget my snow-sports time and funds in hopes of attending the next SES?

(w/ said old gear which is sure to win me a place as number one whipping boy but not give a rat's arse because I'd be on mtns whose worst snow conditions are better then the best condition at any resort within a 10 hr drive of my house)

3. get a second job, work my butt to the bone in hopes of being able to one day buy a new board, boots & binders while having enough left to perhaps afford a single Easct Coast iced over midweek nite session at massonuthin?

4. spend a buckfiddy on some good cold weather mtn bikin shoes and just ride that biotch instead

[ohiomoto]

I think when the price crosses into four figures, even the hardcores will start turning to the classifieds and ebay.

You got it! I don't race skis, so I by my 1-2 season old race stock Elan SLX and GSX skis used for $300 with bindings and there is never a shortage of racers looking to unload them. No way in hell am I paying full retail ($1500) for those suckers. I could get them new on a pro form for less, but I'm getting plenty of value out of the "outdated" pair that I'm on now and I would rather spend the money I save on an "outdated" board. :)

But just because I buy used doesn't mean I'm against new technology. The latest and greatest equipment of today is what I'll be on in a couple of years. I love how technology trickles down!

[Erik J]

Bordy, I've re-read all of your posts on this thread. There's nothing in any of your posts that explains why the new school shapes are better - unless I missed it. Nothing you've written in this thread makes me want to drop cash on a new board.

A comparison would be a huge help - for instance - compare the ride of an SG/Kessler/etc with that of an "old school" board. I understand the ease of use of a new school board (the self professed beginners posting in this thread make great points). The only metal board that I've been on was a Prior 187(?) metal at the 2006 ECES. Why does it offer more grip? What makes it easier to ride? Are there any limitations to new school metal that can be improved upon?

Without BOL, there would be a HUGE void in communication between hardbooters. You can add to this site, do nothing or detract from it. I don't have a whole lot to add - you do, having ridden a lot of boards. Tell us what you know and it will advance the sport.

[tufty]

should I....

1. spend what little 'snow-sports' budget I have, local, on as much snowtime as possible while riding my ole ottadate but still fun for me gear?

This.

[glenn]

I know we have some thread drift going, but I didn't see this coming.

The 'stuff' makes me think more of Carlin than Rooney. Although the slightly whiny tone is more Rooney.

What we really need to have happen is for everyone to buy more stuff.

Everyone stopping to buy stuff is why we are here ( uninformed and poorly founded view of world financial situation) in the first place.

With that attitude no one should ever spend more than 26 cents for a disc of software.

Not the "thing" that is being sold as much as the path to get there.

Why we are here is because nearly everyone has lived beyond his/her means...The institutions have been irresponsible and our governing bodies have failed us...So basically greed and irresponsibility.

I say if you can afford stuff and you want it, buy it...Soon you won't be able to afford stuff ($ worth .40 C). Chinese will be buying stuff...We'll remember the good 'ole days when we could afford stuff:(

[tex1230]

IYour hatred for science and math or anyone that profess some knowledge in these disciplines never seize to amaze me. See there are the theoreticians and the experimentalists and occasionally some that straddles both. I'll drop a few names just to get you rolling and you may have to use google and that is OK. Albert Einstein, Williard Gibb and Carl Wagner, all these scientists see relationships across their multiple disciples and their ideas employ many people, even today. Now, are you still hating?

If so, let me play the roll of a psychologist like a typical internet BOL member even though I am not a psychologist. I would surmise that you flunked out of engineering school in one of those huge physics 101 or intro to advanced math weedout classes and as such you have never forgiven all those that survived that ordeal. Well that is my BOL statement and I am sticking by it no matter the logic.

Bola

http://www.allboardssports.com

1-303-415-1600

Bola, if you ever want to apply your vastly superior math skills to options theory and quantitative analysis of markets, contact me. I can always use more math geeks.

of course, look at my signature to see the downside of such commitments

[carvedog]

Why we are here is because nearly everyone has lived beyond his/her means...The institutions have been irresponsible and our governing bodies have failed us...So basically greed and irresponsibility.

I say if you can afford stuff and you want it, buy it...Soon you won't be able to afford stuff ($ worth .40 C). Chinese will be buying stuff...We'll remember the good 'ole days when we could afford stuff:(

You lost me here. I thought we were here partly ( like several hundred billion dollars worth at least ) because someone left a wolf in charge of the henhouse. As much as any fiscal irresponsibility.

Just plain old thievery. over and over again.

Last I checked anyways, but I have kind of tuned out a lot of the "financial news" lately. Mostly go to Comedy Central now for my news. It's definitely funnier even though it is just as depressing in a way.

Last I saw there weren't too many Walmarts ( filled with chinese stuff btw ) in ski towns. Or really cool custom made snowboards in those Walmarts.

So don't tell me how that spending several hun on a snowboard if I can afford it, is the same as some of the Wall st thievery.

Cannot.

See.

Connection.

[Bruce Varsava]

I spent some time in the Philippines and I had rice with every meal served. After a few days I just wanted something different. Brown rice, wild rice, white rice, long grain, short grain, etc. it is still rice. What is my point? A straight quiver will be boring and by straight quiver I mean boards from one manufacturer. Directly, MikeT, I think you need diversification and cost differential is there or better yet cost to performance. We make those choices all the time even when it comes to food we eat. You may want to talk to Thor and get his take on things particularly Coiler. i know he used to have a very deep quiver and has a PR and a Monstah.

Now to that joker, lowrider or whatever you call yaself, stop making Bruce look like an ignoramus. Don't for a minute think that Bruce can not compute or solve complex equations otherwise you will not have those sidecut radii he stated or better yet computed. Let me say this, if you like to ride a horse buggy in the age of space travel, jet engines, satellites, GPS, zylon, carbon nanotubes, titanal, that is your choice but don't go about making statements like Bruce is in your camp. He is more enlightened than you think, after all he is using titanal and let me tell ya, there is a lot of mathematics and science that goes in to the development and production of this alloy that everyone is talking about.

Your hatred for science and math or anyone that profess some knowledge in these disciplines never seize to amaze me. See there are the theoreticians and the experimentalists and occasionally some that straddles both. I'll drop a few names just to get you rolling and you may have to use google and that is OK. Albert Einstein, Williard Gibb and Carl Wagner, all these scientists see relationships across their multiple disciples and their ideas employ many people, even today. Now, are you still hating?

If so, let me play the roll of a psychologist like a typical internet BOL member even though I am not a psychologist. I would surmise that you flunked out of engineering school in one of those huge physics 101 or intro to advanced math weedout classes and as such you have never forgiven all those that survived that ordeal. Well that is my BOL statement and I am sticking by it no matter the logic.

Bola

http://www.allboardssports.com

1-303-415-1600

HAHA, I even have you fooled:lol:

Never once have I used a equation to develop anything on my boards. The piece of metal wire and a pencil is the honest truth in how I get my sidecut templates. You just keep blending them together to get the desired results.

Thickness is simply done off hand drawn graphs. I regret to inform you I am still in the dark ages but I find eliminating all the time it would take to utilize the technology can slow you down a bit when you are especially doing one offs all the time. Of course there is massive tech in the materials I get but I just assemble them using judgment and previous data. My biggest foe is wood as it always varies so there is definitely a " touch" involved that I get a better feel for by doing most things manually. If I could have totally consistent trees, then I would be laughing!

As to having boards from one manufacturer, I see no problem with it especially when mine are involved;)

All the boards Mike T has are very very different . Of course different manufacturers boards definitely offer up different experiences but I will go out on a limb here and state I have some of the most consistently well performing boards available. You do not hear too many bad things about my end product and on rare occasion when something does not work out, I of course try to handle it to all parties satisfaction.The reason is simple. I developed a unique and very time consuming system for controlling the parameters especially stiffness that to my knowledge is not used by any other builders. Simply because it takes so much time to do it properly. This was developed while working with racers to be able to duplicate results on a very small budget. The spin off benefit is it really works for doing one offs and getting them super close to desired results which can be pretty tricky with all the involved variables. To do the amount of models I do( currently 5 pretty much finalized metal board lines and working on #6) in the small numbers I do and get it pretty close almost all the time does require special attention and I know of no other way to get the results that consistent.

So as much as I love you Bola:1luvu:, I do not utilize any other techniques than above stated. As you know there are so many variables in building and riding it seems tough to get it all into equations at the financial level that Alpine boarding will most likely stay at. Yes there is a ton of marvelous tech in the making of the materials I use but I am just the yoyo with a knack for putting them together.

Just calling it as it is.If you are ever in my area, you need to see how low tech I actually am:biggthump

Its not really about how you get the materials to do what you want them to, its just the fact that you get them there.

Cheers and a box coming to you on Tues!

BV

[glenn]

You lost me here. I thought we were here partly ( like several hundred billion dollars worth at least ) because someone left a wolf in charge of the henhouse. As much as any fiscal irresponsibility.

Just plain old thievery. over and over again.

Last I checked anyways, but I have kind of tuned out a lot of the "financial news" lately. Mostly go to Comedy Central now for my news. It's definitely funnier even though it is just as depressing in a way.

Last I saw there weren't too many Walmarts ( filled with chinese stuff btw ) in ski towns. Or really cool custom made snowboards in those Walmarts.

So don't tell me how that spending several hun on a snowboard if I can afford it, is the same as some of the Wall st thievery.

Cannot.

See.

Connection.

You have investment banks doing commercial banking business...Banks lend people who can't afford house money...Banks bundle these "D" rated instruments and market them as "A" rated...Sell them to Chinese, U.S. pension funds and municipalities...In the mean time insurance companies like AIG insure the securities and have marginal funds to cover...The thing starts to unwind...Nobody has funds to cover...Our government overlooks All of this...WE PAY THE BILL:AR15fi

Since our economic engine runs on debt (and trust) and the Chinese hold a good percentage of our debt (they're now reluctant to hold our debt) the wheels stop turning...

Now it's encumbent on our leaders to convince us that everything is o.k.

The Credit Card default hasn't come yet or the world rejection of the U.S dollar as the basis for trade...Not to mention the Tri Lateral commission or the World Bank or the Committee On Foreign Relations policies...

[glenn]

You lost me here. I thought we were here partly ( like several hundred billion dollars worth at least ) because someone left a wolf in charge of the henhouse. As much as any fiscal irresponsibility.

Just plain old thievery. over and over again.

Last I checked anyways, but I have kind of tuned out a lot of the "financial news" lately. Mostly go to Comedy Central now for my news. It's definitely funnier even though it is just as depressing in a way.

Last I saw there weren't too many Walmarts ( filled with chinese stuff btw ) in ski towns. Or really cool custom made snowboards in those Walmarts.

So don't tell me how that spending several hun on a snowboard if I can afford it, is the same as some of the Wall st thievery.

Cannot.

See.

Connection.

So my point is, if you can afford it, buy it now while a dollar is still worth .70 C...The Chinese will be the economic powerhouse before it's all over...Sorry if my tone was a bit I am just incensed by what our government and financial system has done to us...I'll shut up now :o

[glenn]

HAHA, I even have you fooled:lol:

Never once have I used a equation to develop anything on my boards. The piece of metal wire and a pencil is the honest truth in how I get my sidecut templates. You just keep blending them together to get the desired results.

Thickness is simply done off hand drawn graphs. I regret to inform you I am still in the dark ages but I find eliminating all the time it would take to utilize the technology can slow you down a bit when you are especially doing one offs all the time. Of course there is massive tech in the materials I get but I just assemble them using judgment and previous data. My biggest foe is wood as it always varies so there is definitely a " touch" involved that I get a better feel for by doing most things manually. If I could have totally consistent trees, then I would be laughing!

As to having boards from one manufacturer, I see no problem with it especially when mine are involved;)

All the boards Mike T has are very very different . Of course different manufacturers boards definitely offer up different experiences but I will go out on a limb here and state I have some of the most consistently well performing boards available. You do not hear too many bad things about my end product and on rare occasion when something does not work out, I of course try to handle it to all parties satisfaction.The reason is simple. I developed a unique and very time consuming system for controlling the parameters especially stiffness that to my knowledge is not used by any other builders. Simply because it takes so much time to do it properly. This was developed while working with racers to be able to duplicate results on a very small budget. The spin off benefit is it really works for doing one offs and getting them super close to desired results which can be pretty tricky with all the involved variables. To do the amount of models I do( currently 5 pretty much finalized metal board lines and working on #6) in the small numbers I do and get it pretty close almost all the time does require special attention and I know of no other way to get the results that consistent.

So as much as I love you Bola:1luvu:, I do not utilize any other techniques than above stated. As you know there are so many variables in building and riding it seems tough to get it all into equations at the financial level that Alpine boarding will most likely stay at. Yes there is a ton of marvelous tech in the making of the materials I use but I am just the yoyo with a knack for putting them together.

Just calling it as it is.If you are ever in my area, you need to see how low tech I actually am:biggthump

Its not really about how you get the materials to do what you want them to, its just the fact that you get them there.

Cheers and a box coming to you on Tues!

BV

this guy...A humble genious (sp.)...Refreshing:)

[tenorman]

Bola, if you ever want to apply your vastly superior math skills to options theory and quantitative analysis of markets, contact me. I can always use more math geeks.

hi TEX1230

you might enjoy watching the 1998 movie called “pi” about a computer geek trying to predict stock market behavior. here is a link to a review:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0138704/plotsummary

i guess the writer or director wasn’t too mathematically inclined or he would have realized that mathematician KURT GODEL’s work disproves the very premise of this movie. entertaining movie as long as you overlooked the mathematical inconsistencies and weren’t too hung up on randomness and incompleteness theory.

sorry to be so far off topic but I got bored waiting for my pizza to arrive.

[bobdea]

hi TEX1230

you might enjoy watching the 1998 movie called “pi” about a computer geek trying to predict stock market behavior. here is a link to a review:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0138704/plotsummary

i guess the writer or director wasn’t too mathematically inclined or he would have realized that mathematician KURT GODEL’s work disproves the very premise of this movie. entertaining movie as long as you overlooked the mathematical inconsistencies and weren’t too hung up on randomness and incompleteness theory.

sorry to be so far off topic but I got bored waiting for my pizza to arrive.

here's the full length movie

<embed src="http://player.youku.com/player.php/sid/XNDIyNzk5NzY=/v.swf" quality="high" width="480" height="400" align="middle" allowScriptAccess="sameDomain" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"></embed>

[tex1230]

saw it when it came out ;)

[Ernie00]

Bordy, take some time to read again your first post and think about the way you wrote things... it should make you understand and think a little about things !

I understand why so many people reacting to this !

[lowrider]

If you care to reread my posts I'm not claiming there is no math or engineering involved in board making .I'm saying i hope the emphasis is on the riding.For you to say i am trying to make someone look like an ignoramous sir is personally distastfull I have nothing but the utmost respect for Mr Vasarva and his ability to design and build snowboards. I ride a coiler and although it is not a custom board i would recommend one to all. Bruce Varsava is generous to a fault with his time , he has shown demonstrated and instructed kids on our local team. As well as responded to my requests for info on a used board. As far as my attempts at engineering I'm sorry if i never met you. Did you attend the same school as i? If you would care to reread DR. Varsavas' posts you will see that he does in fact use very simplistic layout techniques that are in fact extremely effective.As for your retort that he uses titinal I am aware of that fact and that he has very sofisticated protocal for its use.The fact that this thread generates such a response from you is interesting in itself but i also hope it also hasn't offended others i'm a big buy i can take it but i wish no disrespect to others.

[Bullwings]

Last time I checked Hardbooter doesen't sell SG or Kessler.

B-squared, Phil Berube, Pretty Good, and Silly Good...

All new CURRENT METAL SHAPES designed by the man himself and made by Prior...

Come on, you're a racing coach, aren't you current and with the alpine times? I mean where the hell is this sport and its progression heading if a top coach doesn't know what "prod'e'ct" is out there?

this guy...A humble genious (sp.)...Refreshing:)

A certain resident expert could learn a thing or two, or NOT...

Bordy, take some time to read again your first post and think about the way you wrote things... it should make you understand and think a little about things !

I understand why so many people reacting to this !

Nothing to think about, he wrote things exactly the way he wanted to.

Also got exactly the reaction he wanted too.

Drama queen. He lives for this stuff. been here for two and a half years, same ole same ole.

That's how these chill cats (as he likes to call himself) work apparently. I have much to learn about the alpine world and keeping it real and current. I'm not chill enough though, i haven't flipped out in every thread i've started and posted in. I also haven't sold enough of my old "crap" and "trash" on the BOL classifieds in the name of helping out. i'm still a padawan with much to learn.

Done, this thread is just stupid, and i'm even dumber for adding to it. So many other threads started that're on this bandwagon this year. If BOL was behind, other threads showed that it was starting to catch up this season... This thread = unnecessary trolling and baiting.

[lowrider]

I understand you have a package comming from bruce I assume you will be sending me one soon with a:lol:real coiler inside it, no! the other kind!

[felix]

Duh, I love great metal boards - been trying out Kesslers and SGs since years and allways really liked those boards.

Dunno however when I have the conditions and few people on a hill to ride down an 185cm, 20m radius SG board a black slope. Needs lotta space (or drifting to reduce speed) and few people to really use it.

If it weren't for the price I'ld be riding them (or one of the newer Goltes raceboards which I really do love). However as a student and interested in skiing, freeriding and racing I simply can't afford those boards. I board in hardboots bought used for 10€ (Raichle SB 325s), softboots bought for a similar price (softboots don't take much more than 30-40days anyhow until they are so broke you can bin them) and with 50-60days on the mountain kill at least 2 of my used boards every winter (and for the freeride stuff a board is only done if the cost of epoxy goes higher than getting another used longboard/swallowtail).

New metal shapes excell if conditions are really bad or on a rutted racecourse - but on hero snow I feel as happy on some older boards.

Most I ever spent for a board was 400CHF for a Swoard because I loved it so much - even if the edges were quite thin already. I paid 250€ for a nice 3 piece splitboard in pristine condition, other than that I bought tons of boards for 10-150€ cause they will still serve me plenty good. New boards are really nice but you can do without too.

Buying a board for 1 grand would mean much less satisfaction too me, cause every little stone would **** up my day thinking about how much money I just burned. Freeriding I don't worry much about stones or rocks but instead enjoy untracked runs that others dare because of too few snow. Cutting a big Swallowtail into a 2m tanker gives you a great freerideboard, cutting a swallowtail into a cheapish 175cm average freerider gives you the same pleasure as a 3x more expensive pintail/extreme taper board. And if conditions are very icey and crowded instead boarding I just use some 2nd hand SL or GS race stock skis to shred. Reserves alpine boarding to days with great conditions when older boards work as good as newer boards.

[Bruce Varsava]

Hey Bruce:

You think you got me fooled but I know you are just a very humble and very smart man. Your computations are clearly in a computer that resides in your head and in all our discussions your numbers have always been spot on. I know what the factory in Oro Station would look like, no big machines, no CAD/CAM but just oozing with pure unadulterated craftsmanship and quality.

Thanks man, our interactions have always been pleasurable and hopefully will continue to be. Oh! one final note and I am not sure if I have told you this but the Coiler signature is unmistakable across the seven DISTINCT (code word for different) categories of Coiler products. I eagerly await the package.

Bola

http://www.allboardssports.com

1-303-415-1600

Bola:

Always a pleasure to interact with you!

I am actually toying with the idea of getting a CNC router to speed things up a bit. The one off core shaping does get a bit tedious. May research that acquisition this summer. As mentioned I do make a ton of educated decisions in the good old hair topped computer and not too sure how much is luck and how much is skill when the results come out favorable.

New VSR FC coming out of the press today and I may get to test it tomorrow

Variable Sidecut Radius Freecarve. Will be working on these over the next season. Thats 6th in the series of board models

AHA, I finally figured out which is the 7th part of the lineup;)

You get the first one of course!

Well thats not true as the first test model is already out there.

BV