carvedog Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Sounds to me like you want a mid 170s to 180 board. If you want to haul the freight- Longer is better. I am definitely a long board guy. Definitely not macho. I just like the ride better from a longer ride. If you are being selective about when you go (Saturday morning at 11am:eek:) you will be fine with something of this size when you want to rip and only slightly jammed up when it gets crowded on you. Don't be afraid of something in 20 to 21 cm waist with those size feet. Not saying it's going to be faster than an 18, but with those size dogs you want the board to be versatile enough to do a couple different types of turns. 10cm is four inches approx. What will make more difference than worrying about the extra 4 inches is good technique and appropriate unweighting. Never ridden out east, so take it FWIW. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_roboteye Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Sounds to me like you want a mid 170s to 180 board.If you want to haul the freight- Longer is better. I am definitely a long board guy. Definitely not macho. I just like the ride better from a longer ride. If you are being selective about when you go (Saturday morning at 11am:eek:) you will be fine with something of this size when you want to rip and only slightly jammed up when it gets crowded on you. Don't be afraid of something in 20 to 21 cm waist with those size feet. Not saying it's going to be faster than an 18, but with those size dogs you want the board to be versatile enough to do a couple different types of turns. 10cm is four inches approx. What will make more difference than worrying about the extra 4 inches is good technique and appropriate unweighting. Never ridden out east, so take it FWIW. Good luck. Couldn't have said it better myself. Nice one CD. later, Dave R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotbeans Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Sorry, I wasn't clear 'bout the wavy line.. You said you'd like to carve more of a wavy line down the slopes vs. complete "c's". That is dictated more by you than the board. No matter what the board, if you just do the drawn out "S"'s down the run, you'll soon be going mach 5. And, yes, you'll be able to make the edge transition while carving uphill. It's a blast. This brings up a question I dont know: is it easier to practice on black slopes with a quick turning board or a gs board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bullet Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 ok so I need a skinnier board, but I need the boots to be as small as possible so my angles aren't rediculous.Is it a no-no to have your boots hang past the edge of the board at all? Like what would be acceptable overhang? I just put a ruler down and placed my feet in a 178mm width, and with regular shoes on, the angles were pretty extreme. Sounds like you are getting closer. I'd get a board that is in the 175 to 185 range with a side cut radius of 12-16 meters.(The larger the SCR the more you use your legs to decamber the board and force a tighter turn.) Look for a waist width of 19.5 to 21.5 cm to put your feet in the 50-65 degree range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bullet Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 is it easier to practice on black slopes with a quick turning board or a gs board? A GS board gives you more time to find and maintain the correct body position through the carve, and the steeps helps you maintain speed as you carve back up hill and transition to the down hill edge. I love the steeps on my 16M GS board. Love it! Feels like riding a horse in a full gallup. Just hold on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 A GS board gives you more time to find and maintain the correct body position through the carve, and the steeps helps you maintain speed as you carve back up hill and transition to the down hill edge. I love the steeps on my 16M GS board. Love it! Feels like riding a horse in a full gallup. Just hold on! I find just the opposite. The longer side cut GS board will forgive the rider being a bit out of position better (bigger sweet spot), but it will also pick up a lot more speed making its bigger turn down and across the fall line. The smaller sidecut board will make much quicker turns and allow the rider to maintain a lower speed much easier. Now if you have the room and can handle the speed there is no reason not to go bigger if that is your preference. Buell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 It's worth keeping an eye on the classifieds forum here, you can try a couple boards and re-sell the ones you don't care for. I have an F2 183 that I really enjoy for going fast on groomers mid-week, and they turn up in the classifieds here pretty regularly for $250-$350 depending on condition. It's got a 19cm waist which might be a little tight with your big feets, but it can't hurt to try - if it doesn't work out, you can probably re-sell it for near what you paid for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 what is the Norm, and carving the downhill edge? This is The Norm. It's a practice drill to help people get started carving. It's not an everyday technique for carving around. Carving the downhill edge - can you change edges and begin carving your next turn before your board points downhill? Mastering these two things, especially the downhill edge, will make the transition to hardboots 10 times easier and more enjoyable. If you can't do those things on softboots, forget about hardboots and all these questions until you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanZ Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 forget about hardboots and all these questions until you can. not to downplay the difficulty of carving, but I have been snowboarding for 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 not to downplay the difficulty of carving, but I have been snowboarding for 20 years. Then I've got you by 1 year, son. ;) If you're just looking to bomb the hill and go fast, then sure, have at it. But if you want to carve nice round turns leaving C-shaped pencil-thin lines in the snow, you'll have an easier time switching to hardboots if you already know how to carve the downhill edge with your softboots and freeride board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 not to downplay the difficulty of carving, but I have been snowboarding for 20 years. It's a totally different skill set. you have the balance but no technique. In Regards to your board choice, forget the advice of going super-skinny to start with. Every board we use from Swoard to Skwal will feel super skinny to someone coming off a freeride board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 not to downplay the difficulty of carving, but I have been snowboarding for 20 years. 26 years here but only 6 carving and I still suck...I was getting DH edge carving all the time last year and for the first couple of hours a day this year but my ankle is still impeding my progress. IMO commiting to the DH edge is really the first step beyond regular snowboarding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 not to downplay the difficulty of carving, but I have been snowboarding for 20 years. Now, now. It's just that a couple of comments you made would indicate less familiarity with the board than 20 years might indicate. Could be just a linguistic/lingo thing. One of the good things I did learn from AASI was the different learning styles. For someone who is not a "linguistic" learner, taking info from a forum like this could be a real challenge. I know I am visual and kinesthetic ( especially ) and have a real hard time turning words into images that make sense to me. After 25 years of practicing I am better able to do this now. When I first started though, people would explain everything to me. I would stand up and forget the entire spiel. Sound familiar? Has something to do with turning the abstraction of words into the movement of muscles. Thanks roboteye. Was probably a tiny kernel of goods in field of misinformation, but I try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Neither years of snowboarding, number of posts or mod vs non-mod has anything to do with a persons carving ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffV Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Bryan, If you ride at Okemo or K-Mart, I highly recommend you get to The Startinggate at the base of Stratton. They have complete line up of demo boards and sell everthing from, boots, bindings to boards. They are also a custom boot fitter. They are the only shop in New England that has demos. http://www.startingate.net/ Route 30 Bondville, VT 05340 (877) 297-1213 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanZ Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Then I've got you by 1 year, son. ;) If you're just looking to bomb the hill and go fast, then sure, have at it. But if you want to carve nice round turns leaving C-shaped pencil-thin lines in the snow, you'll have an easier time switching to hardboots if you already know how to carve the downhill edge with your softboots and freeride board. lol, alright alright, I guess it won't be as easy as I thought. Honestly the first time I saw an alpine boarder's lines and I have been trying to duplicate them on my board, and that was about 10-15 years ago, and it's impossible on regular board. Honestly it's pretty much all I try to do when I board, I don't skid anywhere. I love carving, I try my best to never scrub speed, no matter how steep the slope, but I always end up going so fast that it becomes uncontrollable. I feel like a carving board is going to be my snowboarding nirvana and that it's going to come natural to me. I'll take your guys word for it though that it won't be as easy as I thought, because I honestly thought I would pick it up by the time I got to the bottom of the hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanZ Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Bryan,If you ride at Okemo or K-Mart, I highly recommend you get to The Startinggate at the base of Stratton. They have complete line up of demo boards and sell everthing from, boots, bindings to boards. They are also a custom boot fitter. They are the only shop in New England that has demos. http://www.startingate.net/ Route 30 Bondville, VT 05340 (877) 297-1213 Amazing, thank you so much for that bit of info, I will try to get there this season. I am definatly going to try this before I buy, I have no idea how difficult it's going to be for me and what type of board I should start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 regardless of whether you are doing all trenches, the thing than an Alpine board gives you once you adjust to the length is control, especially control at speed part is running length part is sidecut but I never look at the steepness of a slope and worry. I'd look for something in the 170-180cm range with a 10m-13m SCR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanZ Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Now, now. It's just that a couple of comments you made would indicate less familiarity with the board than 20 years might indicate. I don't have any friends that snowboard, nor do I converse with snowboarders much. I don't speak any of the lingo, I usually board alone. Anyhow, I have surfed for many years, almost x-games level skateboarder (in the past, haven't picked up a skateboard in almost 7-8 years), I am a good skiier, water skiier, and wakeboarder. I try to be as humble as possible when meeting new people, nobody likes to give advice to someone who is cocky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 lol, alright alright, I guess it won't be as easy as I thought. Honestly the first time I saw an alpine boarder's lines and I have been trying to duplicate them on my board, and that was about 10-15 years ago, and it's impossible on regular board. Nope, not impossible. You should be able to do it on a green circle trail, and that's all I'm saying about the downhill edge and the norm. If you can do those on a green circle, then you're ready to try hardboots... on a green circle. And there's no shame in that at all. I feel like a carving board is going to be my snowboarding nirvana and that it's going to come natural to me. It very well may if you can carve your softies already. If so, then you should be carving up the greens on hardboots right away. Just don't expect miracles on the blacks on day one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I was in the same situation 5 or 6 years ago, though with only 15 years experience. I tried to go fast on softboots so I could turn harder and harder, but it never quite worked. I applied that same technique to a hard setup and found very little change in my path down the hill. That was a rude awakening! I had to really slow things down and work my way through the drills listed in the articles on this site before things started to click. The funny part? I got on my softie board to help someone learn to snowboard for a day about 2 years after my conversion to hardboots - all the same carving principles worked! But it turned a very short radius and took a lot of work to keep from folding up under the techniques I learned on the stiffer boards. What I thought was substandard equipment was mostly my improper inputs and me trying to carve too fast for the relatively small sidecut radius. I became a better snowboarder all around by practicing what is in those articles! Try demoing hardboots though - you'll probably never look back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanZ Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 great advice guys, thanks for sharing everything in this thread is sticking in my head like 1st grader in english class. When I get my first board hopefully I can meet some of you to correct my mistakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanZ Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I dunno if this even compares, but I did use k2 clickers for about 7-8 years, they are a pretty stiff boot because the binding has 0 support. I honestly didn't notice much of a difference though from soft boots My angles where about 15/25, so it wasn't really a freestyle setup. The board was definatly directional, but it still had two tips. Carving was much better with this setup, but honestly it wasn't dramatically better. I am hoping for a night and day difference with a carving board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Downhill edge carving with softies. Thanks b2. ( First one) http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=36483&postcount=6 (Second one) I think this one is Jack's of Shred downhill edge carve in HBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 My angles where about 15/25, so it wasn't really a freestyle setup. The board was definatly directional, but it still had two tips. Carving was much better with this setup, but honestly it wasn't dramatically better. I am hoping for a night and day difference with a carving board You may not notice night/day difference on a carving board until your technique catches up. It's not a slam on your skills or anything - it's just that your standard heelside carving position in hardboots at high angles doesn't actually do anything at 25/15 angles, no matter how awesome you are. Typically on a heelside carve at high boot angles you bend your knees and rotate your hips (to a greater or lesser extent) towards the nose of the board, which drives the knees towards the snow and increases your edge angle. At 25/15 the same maneuver does nothing, except that bending your knees decreases your edge angle unless you break forwards at the waist and sit on the toilet cowboy style. Long story short: I doubt that you will have picked up the skills to do a proper heelside carve in hardboots anytime in the last 20 years of riding softboots, because those skills would not have been relevant to low-angle riding. edit: I could be wrong - in that first image that guy is doing a really nice heelside softboot carve with what looks like pretty low angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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