New idea compliments of JG.

[John Gilmour]

Fin,

On the INTEC heels- I have always been bothered by the cable in the interior of my boots as I pack out the liners- or sometimes immediately under high force turns- I feel the cable cut through the liner and into my ankle tissue.

I've shoe gooed around the cables to bury them in a sluce of shoe goo so I don't feel the cutting anymore... but this is hardly an elegant solution.

The cables tend to wear and break over time.

My last INTEC ones didn't make it a full season.

so instead of using cheapo bicycle brake cable...which has issues with its form factor ... why not improve on the entire system?

How about using a flat braided cable with a teflon jacket. Slippy slippy ..nice!

http://www.newenglandwire.com/braids.asp

You could use an extremely strong cable since it is flat and flexible 3/4 of an inch wide should do it.

You could also use a plastic like a nylon with fiber stranding inside. (not sure where to source that)

For instance the materials they make the new automotive belts out of would be great if you could find a thin example. But in small quantities

http://www.newenglandwire.com/braids.asp

is probably a inexpensive solution.

________

XT

[trailertrash]

How is the protection coming that was discussed here? Is it being produced?

[Jack M]

Cool idea. But do you use Thermoflex liners? I do and the cables haven't been a problem at all.

[willywhit]

;)

Cool idea. But do you use Thermoflex liners? I do and the cables haven't been a problem at all.

not everyone has your finesse, jack. I've heard too many tales of cables breaking and having to leave the boot attached to the board and walk in the snow in a sock.Even better, if you left your shoes in the car, a 10 minute walk from the lodge.

JG is always trying to build a better mousetrap. Let's hope his wind power ideas work out.

and thanks for the link to the shot of bobdea's purple babboon arse, how grotesque ;)

[queequeg]

Cool idea. But do you use Thermoflex liners? I do and the cables haven't been a problem at all.

I think it can be a problem if you mold the liners with the cables in the boots. When I have molded liners without the cables in the boots I had no problems, but with them in it has definitely caused some pain.

[Jack M]

weird, I always mold with the cable in.

[John Gilmour]

Jack,

Glad to see you don't have a problem... I rode last year with Diabello Intuition heat moldable liners in my Head Stratos boots and molded with the cable- and also without.. it was UNRIDEABLE without the shoe goo mod.

Lets just take a look at things...

when you have a rounded object like an ankle- contacting another round object- a round cable... you will get point contact.

In this case body tissue loses to the hard cable. I have always been annoyed with the cables and had to maneuver them into particular positions not to be irritated by them- and in some cases have to stop mid run to correct it.

So a mildly flexible flat cable that is thin likely will annoy your body tissue less since it will conform to the hardest surface... the curvature of your inner plastic boot.

I should have spec'ed in my first post that the cable be flexible laterally for this purpose.

I wish I was the only person in the world with this problem...(in that case it is not a problem) but I have spoken to other that have had issues with the cable as well. Some went back to clip ins.

________

Cosmo

[nekdut]

I think it can be a problem if you mold the liners with the cables in the boots. When I have molded liners without the cables in the boots I had no problems, but with them in it has definitely caused some pain.

Hey thats a good idea. I have to try that. I guess I have strange feet, because I get major cable pain on my front (left) foot but not the rear. Both liners were molded with the cable installed. I just resorted to using a standard binding in the front as the solution. It works, but I get asymmetrical binding stiffness that way unfortunately.

[kjl]

I haven't had any problems since I started positioning the cable more towards the back of each boot instead of straight up when baking the liners. If you go straight up or forwards the cable will run right along where your ankle bump/knob is, which is where the thermoflex will mold the thinnest. Also, especially on the front foot on the heelside turns, you push forwards and out on the cuff, so if the cable is there it will push extra hard.

Long story short: mold with cables pushed back slightly so they run just posterior to the bumps on your ankles.

edit: I have not tried it, but NOT molding with the cable in should logically make the pinching worse, no?

[Corey]

To take it a step further - Why even have a housing? On a bike you need the housing to take the compression forces along the length of the cable. In hardboots we just pull straight up on the cable and it doesn't make any weird curves.

As long as it doesn't cut the liner you shouldn't need a housing at all. Maybe just a teflon coated cable?

[queequeg]

Jack,

Glad to see you don't have a problem... I rode last year with Diabello Intuition heat moldable liners in my Head Stratos boots and molded with the cable- and also without.. it was UNRIDEABLE without the shoe goo mod.

weird, I always mold with the cable in.

The dalbello ID liners? I'm riding with with your exact same setup I think. Dalbello Golds in an HSP shell, and experienced some seriously unpleasant sensations (pain) in the lower part of my ankle ( lower part of the cable rubbing against the heel bone). My previous liners (Deeluxe HPD"speed" liner) did not have any such problems -- with the intec cables anyway. They caused all kinds of other pain (shin-bang, heel slippage, etc) - definitely not a fan of that liner. BUT -- I had not molded the HPD with the cables in so assumed the pain I experienced was my Dalbellos was a result of modling with the cables in. Seems it could be I was wrong about that.

Here is a bit of info about what I have since done to relieve the pressure and resulting pain:

1) dremel a small channel in the sidewall of the shell for the cable to press into. I was careful not to dig too deep--just a little bit and not very far. The channel I dug is just where the pain was occurring, and just deep enough to get maybe 1/2 of the cable in.

2) line the area around the cable and channel with bootfitters foam, so as to distribute pressure over a wider area and keep the cable centered over the channel.

Those two steps worked pretty well. The pain is gone (I have gone riding with these mods for a six full consecutive days without any pain). I do agree with JG that a narrower cable would be super cool though, or better yet - a more forward placement of the cable where there is less bone and more hard tissue ... though that's probably not realistic.

Love those Dalbello Liners!!! My boots feel like a pair of bedroom slippers now. Far from the torture devices they were during ECES last year!

[Gecko]

yikes y'all have a serious case of princess and the pea going on I guess. how tight are you buckling? I spent 2 hours walking around in my boots the other night trying to figure out if I'm gonna need moldable liners with my ankle. The Cable is the least of my problems but so far it feels good, my boots turned out to be very comfortable (more so that either my work boots or dress shoes). FWIW my cables are duct taped behind my ankle bone on both boots

[John Gilmour]

snipped-

edit: I have not tried it, but NOT molding with the cable in should logically make the pinching worse, no?

well if molding the cable in reduces the amount of travel in the cushioning...to the point where the cable is just 1/8 of an inch....

You might feel the cable as you pressurize the boot in a turn... I was better off without the cable molded in.

________

Honda VT series

[John Gilmour]

The dalbello ID liners? I'm riding with with your exact same setup I think. Dalbello Golds in an HSP shell, and experienced some seriously unpleasant sensations (pain) in the lower part of my ankle ( lower part of the cable rubbing against the heel bone). My previous liners (Deeluxe HPD"speed" liner) did not have any such problems -- with the intec cables anyway. They caused all kinds of other pain (shin-bang, heel slippage, etc) - definitely not a fan of that liner. BUT -- I had not molded the HPD with the cables in so assumed the pain I experienced was my Dalbellos was a result of modling with the cables in. Seems it could be I was wrong about that.

Here is a bit of info about what I have since done to relieve the pressure and resulting pain:

1) dremel a small channel in the sidewall of the shell for the cable to press into. I was careful not to dig too deep--just a little bit and not very far. The channel I dug is just where the pain was occurring, and just deep enough to get maybe 1/2 of the cable in.

2) line the area around the cable and channel with bootfitters foam, so as to distribute pressure over a wider area and keep the cable centered over the channel.

Those two steps worked pretty well. The pain is gone (I have gone riding with these mods for a six full consecutive days without any pain). I do agree with JG that a narrower cable would be super cool though, or better yet - a more forward placement of the cable where there is less bone and more hard tissue ... though that's probably not realistic.

Love those Dalbello Liners!!! My boots feel like a pair of bedroom slippers now. Far from the torture devices they were during ECES last year!

I had intense heel pain with teh gold liners as well from the cable..had to abandon the liners- other than that they were INCREDIBLY comfortable..

But because of the lower density foam I experienced foot roll and had to buckle SOOOO tightly that it made my boots too stiff. I too felt like they were slippers. For less aggressive carvers complaining of cold feet... those liners would be the best choice.

I tried the same thing with boot fitters foam- but it took up too much space and would tear out as I removed liners to dry.

I did not want to dremel because the boot material is not that thick so instead I built it out with shoe goo- which is removeable - (with vice grips) ... but still changed the interior shape of the heel pocket... (Not so desirable).

Having no cable housing sounds like a great idea.- but since the pull is a 90 degree angle.... well I think it needs the cable housing for it to work... unless Fin changed it to a cam pull design. a raw cable might start to saw through things.. so teflon coating is good- still a teflon coated flat cable would be even better. Woven kevlar might also work well.

I was so annoyed last year.. I was even considering using that flexible plastic strapping material you find on some larger shipping of cardboard boxes.. it has very high tensile strength- and one wrapping of it in electrical tape would stop fraying- but attaching it was the part that made me drop that idea.

________

Iolite vaporizer review

[Corey]

Having no cable housing sounds like a great idea.- but since the pull is a 90 degree angle.... well I think it needs the cable housing for it to work

The housing ends above the heel on my F2 Intec heels. Actually it ends above the 'floor' of the boot. The piece with the housing only curves to follow the side of the boot.

Even a shifter housing would be better as it's smaller. Or just the plastic sleeve that was used many years ago on bikes to protect paint from the cables.

[queequeg]

I had intense heel pain with teh gold liners as well from the cable..had to abandon the liners- other than that they were INCREDIBLY comfortable..

But because of the lower density foam I experienced foot roll and had to buckle SOOOO tightly that it made my boots too stiff. I too felt like they were slippers. For less aggressive carvers complaining of cold feet... those liners would be the best choice.

My aggression level tends to change with the conditions/crowds, and I have noticed on good days that I do have to tighten up halfway through the day. I've also noticed that on very crowded days when I have to skid around to avoid getting hit by oncoming straightliners, the ankle area can get a little loose and I have to tighten ... but aside from that I really love them. Though I'm nowhere near as agressive or capable as many of the riders on this board.

If you've got suggestions for a liner that is as comfortable that will stay tight all day, I'd *definitely* be interested in hearing about it!

[yyzcanuck]

Long story short: mold with cables pushed back slightly so they run just posterior to the bumps on your ankles.

I'm in agreement with this statement. With DeeLuxe shells, we've only had one customer complaint about feeling the cable. This person's heel pad (I don't know the medical term) was very wide. Normally we pull the cable slightly rearward of the ankle when molding.

In the DeeLuxe SB shell there is a molded position that can be drilled in the cuff to allow the cable to be routed externally. See image below. The DeeLuxe AF shell doesn't have this.

I'm curious if it's something specific to the shell design on the Head boots (ankle position slightly different than DeeLuxe?) or the rider's anatomy.

The housing ends above the heel on my F2 Intec heels. Actually it ends above the 'floor' of the boot. The piece with the housing only curves to follow the side of the boot.

Yes, you could use the cables without the housing (sleeve). There is no real need for it except the wire may eventually wear into the liner and/or the handle may slide down the cable to the top of your cuff.

Regardless, I like JG's idea but can't see an easy solution to getting that put together on the INTEC™ or the Fin-Tec design.

[BadBrad]

If you've got suggestions for a liner that is as comfortable that will stay tight all day, I'd *definitely* be interested in hearing about it!

ZipFit liners:

www.zipfit.com

Very comfortable and warm, and very good heel hold.

They are "heat moldable", but the procedure involves heating the boot shell, not the liner. This can be done an infinite number of times. They mold to your feel while you ride so they stay snug and comfortable, and heel hold actually seems to get better as you ride. The heat molding procedure is not really necessary -- I did it once.

[bumpyride]

I didn't like the way the cable felt inside the liner, and it kept shifting around. I used a dremel tool and ran the cable away from the ankle and out the boot behind the power strap. It stays in precisely the same spot and no ankle problems. Two seasons and no problems.

[dirk109]

ZipFit liners:

www.zipfit.com

Very comfortable and warm, and very good heel hold.

They are "heat moldable", but the procedure involves heating the boot shell, not the liner. This can be done an infinite number of times. They mold to your feel while you ride so they stay snug and comfortable, and heel hold actually seems to get better as you ride. The heat molding procedure is not really necessary -- I did it once.

Did you stay in the same shell size? Every ZipFit I have seen, One would have to go to the next shell size to make it work. IE, A size 27 ZipFit liner would have to go into a 28 shell.

[John Gilmour]

I had to also consider upsizing to go to a stolz liner... from 27.0 in a Head Stratos stock liner to 27.5 in A Head Stratos Pro with Strolz liner

and I used to shoe horn into a 26.5 in Nordica TR-9's

In the end I had to send back the head boots I had slated for this project- because I was not convinced that the walk ski mech would last...they were a lower end boot than the stratos..the buckles were also without the ratchet which I needed.

I have seen the Head Stratos Pros cut so that they really have tremendous flex... so likely I'll go with those at some point.

________

Libero (g5)

[Jack M]

Jack,

Glad to see you don't have a problem... I rode last year with Diabello Intuition heat moldable liners in my Head Stratos boots and molded with the cable- and also without.. it was UNRIDEABLE without the shoe goo mod.

I don't doubt it, and I like your idea. Feet are picky things. For the record I was using vintage 2000 Burton Fires and previous-gen Raichle Thermoflex liners.

2009 Deeluxe T700s and Fin-Tecs arriving this week... we'll see what happens.

[Mike T]

2009 Deeluxe T700s and Fin-Tecs arriving this week... we'll see what happens.

Methinks you won't notice any difference with the intec cabling, I've got last year's 700's and I molded them with cable in place - no issues. And I have "problem feet".

[BadBrad]

Did you stay in the same shell size? Every ZipFit I have seen, One would have to go to the next shell size to make it work. IE, A size 27 ZipFit liner would have to go into a 28 shell.

No, the ZipFits actually gave my feet more room. My boots are Burton Wind, size 26.5, and they were actually a little too small with the stock 26.5 Burton liners. With the ZipFit 26.5 liners the fit is perfect. Mine are the World Cup model, which have the least amount of molding compound. With the Classic model I might need a bigger shell.

From the ZipFit website:

"The new World Cup (red leather trim) is designed specifically for the new range of low volume and narrow “plug” shell (race) models, as well as for high volume feet squeezing into medium volume shell models. Excellent for the feet that find the other models “tight” after the initial heat fitting process. Neoprene lining only. The leather trim is “red.” The ankle panels are very thin."

My only issue with them is that they made the boot noticeably stiffer, and I like a fairly flexible setup.

[Hotbeans]

No issues whatsoever with my stock stratos pro's and cable position. Guess I'm the freak again..