Carving and Injuries

[modifiede30]

Just curious if there is a higher incidence of injuries among carvers than regular boarders or skiiers, or if its just the severity of the injury - or neither. Seems like the posts I see of injuries here are often pretty serious breaks, but maybe its just such a small cohort. Just curious if anyone sees this as more or less risky than other snow sports. Its obviously worth the pain or we'd not all be here or on the slopes, but since finding this site I've seen some pretty bad breaks.

[Dan]

I've noticed this too - I think it may be true that carvers get worse injuries. Or, to be more detailed, they fall less frequently, but the falls that happen tend to be bigger.

The better you get, the more force you're putting into the board when you carve, and when things don't go quite right, there's more force available to smack you upside the head.

I rode the lift with one of the racers at last year's NorAm finals at Crystal. He was 30 or so and he was retiring from racing because his body was so torn up: no feeling in his left hand, a couple of major breaks, and a chronically dislocated shoulder, I think. This guy was an awesome rider, but the speeds/forces they deal with means that when they make a mistake, the punishment is disproportionately large. I think the same dynamic applies at a lower level to us rec carvers.

[philfell]

Not many people are going to make a thread about how they lost an edge and bruised thier butt. People post the dramatic injuries.

[Mike T]

Freestylers wreck themselves pretty badly too, y'know...

(knocking on wood) I've yet to break anything, I've torn a rotator cuff stuffing the nose and sprained and badly ankle being really dumb in hardboots.

My wife has broken her clavicle twice - one on a jump and once in the halfpipe.

[C5 Golfer]

Just curious if there is a higher incidence of injuries among carvers than regular boarders or skiiers, or if its just the severity of the injury - or neither. Seems like the posts I see of injuries here are often pretty serious breaks, but maybe its just such a small cohort. Just curious if anyone sees this as more or less risky than other snow sports. Its obviously worth the pain or we'd not all be here or on the slopes, but since finding this site I've seen some pretty bad breaks.

I first skied when I was about 40 or so and had falls that hurt and me wondering if I should be doing this.

I then snowboarded at 50 yrs old (my kids were very convincing) with soft set up and sure I fell when I started but then once I was riding well 3 yrs later, I crashed a couple of times and that hurt too.

Then I went to hard boots. Discovered I did not hurt my ankles anymore at high speed like I did with softboots in the skied out crud so I kept with it. Going on 7 years now and no hurts. Sounds like I should stay with hardboots - safer least for me.

[Steve Prokopiw]

With the exceptions of a couple of overuse related stress fractures, all my broken bones/fractures have come while paticipating in different types of bike races. What Dan says about crashing less but paying more makes sense for any sport where the intensity rises with skill level. I have only crashed once in over 600 heats on the velodrome(very much like carving on a bike) but I shattered a clavicle and broke an elbow in that crash.

[Gecko]

As was stated above I agree that Alpine riders fall less frequently but tend to be at the limit when they do fall. I know that I am still feeling the effects of crash I had 6 weeks ago where I strained my rotator cuff and really strained my ab and groin muscles. The bruising to my hip turned out to be the lease of my In truth though looking back it aches and pains. I would say that my accident probably would not have happened had I not been on such a small board. Being at the boards speed limit and not being able to pass someone sooner played into to my crash as much if not more as someone hitting me. I feel that my choice of equipment lead me partially to getting hurt...of course being older has lead to those pains lasting longer than they used to

[patmoore]

Sky diving: 3 sprained ankles, rib separated from the cartilage, blown ACL (but that's over the course of 15 years and 2000 jumps)

Unicycling: Fractured my right hand

Snowboarding: Slap tear of the right shoulder. Healed through therapy.

Skiing: February 23rd. Two broken ribs resulting in pneumonia. Still not fully recovered.

Snowboarding has been less abusive to this aging body than the others.

[V*L*A*D]

EXCELLENT THREAD!

Alpine snowboarders have a much higher frequency of shoulder (rotator cuff, AC joint) injuries than do either skiers or softies, and they also have fewer knee injuries than the softies and skiers.

Further- softies tend to have a higher incidence of chronic knee conditions (resultant of to the stance angles which they ride) than do alpine riders, but fewer overall than skiers.

I belive that skiers, now skiing much shorter skis and cranking less knee-angulation than in the late 20th century, will enjoy a decline in knee trauma (less leverage with which to to twist things up, with shorter boards).

Jay

[Coldrider]

Alpine snowboarders have a much higher frequency of shoulder (rotator cuff, AC joint) injuries than do either skiers or softies, and they also have fewer knee injuries than the softies and skiers.

Further- softies tend to have a higher incidence of chronic knee conditions (resultant of to the stance angles which they ride) than do alpine riders, but fewer overall than skiers.

Thanks for the info. Are these your own observations, or are they the conclusion of injury rate/type studies you could point me to?

Thanks!

[jnshapiro]

More anecdotal evidence.

I've injured myself far more rock climbing than I even had on snow. And I've done a lot more damage to myself skiing than I've done snowboarding. But I don't have that number of days out yet on a snowboard, so there's still time.

[pebu]

I've injured myself more building various buildings than I have snowboarding. More playing with my cats than snowboarding... Though I have railed myself snowboarding a couple times.

All in all, a few pulled muscles, some cuts and scratches, but never had a broken bone in my body.

[Dave ESPI]

Wehalp, after 14 seasons of riding, I finaly "have to pay my dues".....

Sunday I tore my ACJ in my shoulder after I went for a front flip in the turrain park off of a small jump. The slow snow and a slight miscalculation in my speed check, and I under rotated the forward lean, and landed on my shoulder quite soundly.

I knew I was "hurt", but not sure if I was broken. I went for an x-ray on Monday, and it showed no broken bones, but a possibly serious partial seperation of my Acumuial Colicular Joint Ligiment.

Argh !

[queequeg]

I've only had two major injuries snowboarding (actually, two major injuries ever, both snowboarding), only one in hardboots (broke my nose, when another skier hit me ... weird).

I *have* had some very frightening close calls.

Once, spring skiing at willamette pass I got thrown over the nose of my kildy and flew off the trail and between two trees. I didn't hit anything, but I know if I had, it could have been curtains.

I was once "carving" in powder (also at willamette pass) (I didn't know any better than to try) and face planted ... my board went over my back and I saw stars ... pretty sure I nearly broke my back that day. I'll never, ever try to carve hard in powder again.

Went over the nose once at sunapeee a long time ago and did a flip at speed, where my head just skimmed the ground ... seemed like if I had been lower I could have broken my neck.

Seems to me like the risks are higher, when you screw up carving.

[kjl]

Ultimate frisbee: (knee): torn PCL, torn MCL, torn MCL again, torn other MCL, (shoulder): torn labrum, torn labrum again, torn other labrum, (ankles): too many severe sprains to count.

Hardbooting: strained my back once. Knock on wood.

I find that I fall pretty infrequently on hardboots and when I do, It's almost always a pretty gentle slide (edge slips out, but I'm already only 5-10 inches from the ground, so the impact is minimal, so really the worst thing is a bruised ego from supermanning while gathering snow in my pants). On the very rare occasions that I fall in hardboots in another way it feels worse. Folding the nose is bad, as is putting so much energy into the board in a carve that it launches you unexpectedly airborne: both of them send you into tumbles, which are worse in hardboots that softboots for sure.

[Guest Bamboo_Girl]

Lots of different angles on this question but I'll give it a shot. Obviously with the disclaimer that I haven't even ridden through one full season.

Anyway....

First off, I think of 'carvers' as those folks whose primary style of riding involves carving and who use equipment to facilitate that (usually hard boots, alpine boards but not always). As opposed to wannabies like me, who will carve turns for a few runs on a freestyle board and spend most of their time in the park!

So back to the topic at hand, I think of carvers as more advanced riders. People who have a high level of skill and confidence in their abilities. With that in mind, these folks probably have a much lower incidence of falling than your average snowboarder. The caveat being though, when they do fall, chances are they are probably going much faster and/or on much steeper/serious terrain. Instead of falling around on the easy green slopes, I envision people who carve are bailing on 30-40 degree pitches oftentimes while going way fast. Maybe that's why the injuries seem more serious?

My own limited experience suggests that when I do fall while carving, it hurts! Mainly because I'm going much, much faster than while cruising down the mountain doing tricks, 180's, etc. And in most cases, it has been during a high-speed edge transition (like last weekend).

I've also taken a rather painful fall in the park when I botched a jump. That resulted in a sore tailbone for 3 weeks - ouch!

My point? Right, I'm supposed to have one. I'd say rank beginners hurt themselves at a high rate, typically their wrists. Then you have the bulk of snowboarders and skiers who aren't newbies, rather let's say, intermediates, who aren't going so fast or big as to be injured badly. Finally you have the really advanced folks, carvers and the serious freestylers who get the real high speed and big air where the consequences of a fall are very bad!

[John E]

Seems like hardbooting is the quest for high G forces. This requires relatively high speeds and high turning forces. It's great when all works well. However, when something goes wrong, these forces break boards & break bodies.

[modifiede30]

This actually turned into a pretty interesting thread - lots of good opinions/input. I've been boarding for about 8 years in hardboots, one day in softies (the day I learned to snowboard), and about 15 on skis. I started the thread because I noticed so many serious injuries being posted that seemed carving specific - shoulders, knees, ankles and pelvis.

I only really started carving this year and had 2 injuries, but one was probably just re-injuring a shoulder that was originally banged up several years ago.

Skateboarding - countless ankle injuries (sprains/fractures/breaks)

Snowboarding/Carving - Badly bruised back/spine & partial shoulder dislocation

Swingset - shattered jaw (this was back when they used wood plank)

Skiing - nothing

It does seem that as you progress and pick up speed, g's in the turns, and advance to steeps, your likelihood of having a more serious impact increase, but that's true of any type of snowsport I would think. It seems to me that the hardboots would have benefits and drawbacks though - ankles would seem more protected, shins/knees maybe more suseptible to tears/breaks. Otherwise, I don't see where the equipment would have much impact when comparing soft boots to hard - skiing would be completely different since they release in many cases. The fact that you're legs can go in different directions and the knee twists are what have always concerned me.

[Galen]

Softies: Torn meniscus, cracked ribs

HB's: Numerous minor injuries, nothing that took more then a week to heal

Skiing: Torn meniscus, (binding release and subsequent post hole in wind crust)

Climbing: 2 torn rotator cuffs, numerous blown tendons in fingers and elbow's, impact induced scoliosis, sever ankle sprain/dislocation (30 yrs. later, it's still swollen and weak) Numerous near death experiences (Alpine/mixed/back country)

Surfing: 12 yrs., none, though thought I'd drown at least once a year.

Cycling: nope

Work: smashed fingers, pulled backs, eye injuries, repetitive knee injuries, multiple injuries requiring stitches.

Kid play @ 5: Jumping from one old appliance to another in a canyon used as a dump, 49 stitches, Achilles tendon severed 80%. Apparently I'll never walk again. :p

If I could go back, wouldn't change a thing. Life wouldn't be any fun if it were safe

[Kimo]

Carving: stress fractured fibula

Terrain Park: crushed L1 vertebra

Work: broken will

[pebu]

Work: broken will

I see alot of those types of injuries. Unfortunately they don't heal fast. A good remedy though is carving.

You don't have to be insane to work here, but it sure does help.

[Dave Pushee]

Work: broken will

Amen, Best cure I've found for this one is retirement and the subsequent ability to ride midweek

I've had 3 boarding incidents:

Shoulder dislocation leading to frozen shoulder leading to PT. This was in softies - a moments inattention was the cause.

Ankle sprain in HB. While stopped, hit from behind by an out of control skier (one ski between my feet, the other behind me, fell on top of me). This was the first day of a week long trip to Banf :(

AC joint completely separated - Hard boots, nose fold and catapult.

I think I nearly broke my neck once in softies. Riding in about a foot of fresh, hit something with the nose and drove my helmet straight down into the snow.

[Derf]

I've had several shoulder dislocations (so many I stopped counting) on both shoulders (not at the same time though) when cycling, snowboarding and rock climbing. I sold my rock climbing gear, learned how to fall when snowboarding and cycling, so I've been OK for the last 2 years for my left one and the last 4 years for my right one.

I consulted an orthopedist who said my right one should be operated and the left one would be OK with physiotherapy, but physiotherapy did the job for both. Archery helps to keep the muscles in shape (I don't go to th gym).

[Gleb]

One time I lost an edge and I bruised my butt.

[cfj04]

Does brain damage count? Because I get that every time I try to have an intelligent conversation with my boss.

:lol:

One bruised rib and one strained foot in 14 years of hardbooting. One severly bruised ego watching some of the riders at SES this year