Liner Suggestion

[mtracz]

I ride a pair of Deeluxe Track 325's from ~2006 and it's time for new liners. Full disclosure there was a serious lull from 2009 - 2017. 

Last year, I finally got a pass for my local hill, and after a dozen or more days, the heel lift was crazy, as well as I've maxed out my buckles. 

I've seen recommendations for Intuition liners, but I'm not sure what to get, as they have too many choices. 

Any surefire recommendations would be very helpful!

I hope all is well. 

_Mike

[Mr.E]

If you are maxing out buckles and getting that much heel lift, I would seriously consider if the shell itself is too big. If you do a shell fit (YouTube if this is something you have done), how much space to you have between your heels and the shell? 

Edited Monday at 09:18 PM by Mr.E

[Pat Donnelly]

Age of your shells might be a consideration?

liners:  

 

[SunSurfer]

Deeluxe/Raichle shells have a reputation for heel lift issues, especially if you have relatively slim ankles and heels. 

I used to own Deeluxe boots, and moved eventually to UPZ RC series shells (Intuition Pro Wrap liners) to improve the issue. 

Combo of boots and improving technique means that heel lift is now only an issue if I over balance forwards.

[Gremlin]

Heel lift is primarily a product of space over the top of your foot. Sounds like your shells are too big and/or a poor match for your foot.

Soft high volume liners can mask the problem for a time while sacrificing substantial feel and feedback. You'll need new liners regularly.

Best option is a shell that's sized to fit your ankle regardless of your forefoot. Then go to a good bootfitter and have them make space for all the knobs and toes up front.

For even better results, do the aforementioned in a zipfit liner.

[lamby]

Do you have a bootfitter near you, or near where you snowboard? They can be a great way to go. Pricey, your feet will thank you. A qualified bootfitter can work wonders by building up custom footbeds and molding liners to your feet.

My trusted bootfitter long ago engrained in me that stock liners were junk and that the way to go was with Intuition liners. Since then I always discard new stock liners for Intuition. I've had quite a lot of foot issues, and going this route has made all the difference (I believe). My foot issues are not issues anymore.

I'm using the downhill wrap high density for my Deeluxe 700s (maybe I'm in a different earlier wrap model, but they look the same). I use the Tour Wrap liners for my Atomic Hawx, which have worked well too. I cut the lacing out of the Tour wraps, as they were creating pressure points, and the internal lacing was not useful/needed.

[barryj]

5 hours ago, mtracz said:

Track 325's from ~2006

Boots that old are probably fine for fun cruising , but if hard charging carving is your goal I'd pony up for a newer And stiffer boot.   325's are on the soft side even brand new!

If you dead set on resurrecting your old 325's I'd have a reputable ski boot fitter check your boots for cracks/visual fatigue in the interior footbed......time, in your situation  is enough to cause bad things to happen to the interior of the shell.

If the boot is deemed usable I'd go with the  Intuition Power Wrap Liner.   

Additionally what is your street shoe size and what size are your 325's?    A lot of carvers here  go a whole size down, or more from their street shoe size for a performance fit and/or to counteract the notorious Deeluxe Heel lift.  For example i wear a size 11,5 street shoe but I'm in modo 28/US 10 Deluxe 425's.

If you get the boots/liners molded it's a super snug, not tight fit the first couple of days but you don't notice it after that.

Hope this helps ~

   

 

 

[kibber]

consider volume of shell and volume of your foot. I have skinny ankles, and two pair of boots. one pair is shell sz smaller w intuition race plug lowest volume liners (all carve stiff). the other shells are one sz up w high volume intuition luxury liners (gold black) in med/soft flex shells (my “soft boots”). Contact Intuition directly, great to work with, order two choices you think will work, keep the pair that feel best, return other pair. Working with your nearest boot fitter as others suggest is highly reccomended.

 

[Mr.E]

Lots of good suggestions on liners, but again, if the shell is too large your throwing good money after bad on a bandaid. All boot fitting (liners, shell work or foot beds) should be done on a shell that fits. It's almost universally easier to make a small shell fit better than a large one.

[Mr Wonton]

I have feet like a parakeet. I use the intuition power wrap with upz boots. Had rc12 boots but just upgraded to rcr for this season. The difference in heel lift and comfort is remarkable. Sure it’s spendy but it’s worth it to not have painful numb feet and boots that perform as they should. You’re worth the investment. 

Edited Tuesday at 12:09 PM by Mr Wonton

[dhamann]

more than a dozen or so days. season pass. boots from '06. yep. time for new boots, or at least update to a newer shell/liner. everyone is different and will need to find what works for you. great input from above. i think we're all well aware UPZ handles heel lift better for most, but not necessarily all. proper shell fit is key. low volume liners are an option to achieve a more accurate fit. decide what kind of fit you desire. comfort, performance, race, somewhere in between, etc.

just gonna throw out what i'm riding for comparison cause it may help to see what others are riding and what works for them. skinny foot/shin, high arch.

alpine boot: RC12, 28-28.5 shell, 29 plug liner (LV), off the shelf high arch foot bed. 1.5 finger shell fit tight

soft boot: deeluxe edge pro, 29 shell, 29 fx race liner (and 29 pro wrap), both LV lowers, same foot bed

left foot, 28.9cm. right foot 28.7cm.

i find that an alpine boot buckles tighter than a soft boot. almost obvious. the UPZ boot has three buckles at the lower part of the shell. this really clamps down the foot, which is also helpful for heel hold as mentioned above. the foot just stays clamped in place. plain and simple. molded once in home oven with two toe caps, rode a couple times, molded again on larger foot for a scooch more wiggle room in toes. molded soft boot liner once. they've been great. i prefer a tight fit going down hill, so yes i do unbuckle a couple clamps when riding the lift most of the time. anyways. everyone has their own journey and it is all worth it in the end when/if you get there. good luck.

btw, some great deals at intuition right now as long as you keep an eye on the final sale items if not quite sure. recently got a b-grade liner that appears to have been molded but not used. liners can be molded up to three times i think so no worries. expedited shipping is +35usd btw.

Edited Tuesday at 01:23 PM by dhamann
intuition deals

[slapos]

ultimate solution to all liners is zipfit.

sure, expensive - but on the other hand i am into my seventh season with zipfit gran prix and they still hold like new.

this is approx 220 days on snow.

I previously used foam injected and standard liners from UPZ. They all tend to pack out after a season or two, where you have to keep buckling harder and harder until the boots crush your feet.

zipfit has never packed out.

If i destroy the liner finally i am going straight back to zipfit for replacement.

 

[Jack M]

It's time for new boots.  Sounds like you'd benefit from either UPZ or Mountain Slope and their far superior heel hold.  If you like the softer flex of the 325 then go with UPZ.  MS Standards are stiffer than UPZ RC12s.

27 minutes ago, slapos said:

ultimate solution to all liners is zipfit.

They are certainly the highest quality, however they don't work for everyone.  I have a low volume situation where my foot size is at the top end of the shell size, I just couldn't get Zipfits to squeeze in there.

[mtracz]

Whoa!!! Thank you everyone! I have to read and re-read this one. I hoped to keep my boots for a bit more but knew it was time for new boots. I don't have anyone near me that I can try them on. Northeast Ohio isn't a hot bed for alpine snowboard gear. 

Big thanks, all! This is a great place. I hope to be able to weigh in on someone's question and give back one of these days... 

_Mike

[Jack M]

Unfortunately this is how it is for us.  All you can really do is measure your feet in centimeters, which is your mondopoint size, then order boots in that size.  All boot sellers will take returns within a reasonable time if the boots don't feel right, as long as you haven't worn them outdoors.

[Mr Wonton]

2 hours ago, mtracz said:

Whoa!!! Thank you everyone! I have to read and re-read this one. I hoped to keep my boots for a bit more but knew it was time for new boots. I don't have anyone near me that I can try them on. Northeast Ohio isn't a hot bed for alpine snowboard gear. 

Big thanks, all! This is a great place. I hope to be able to weigh in on someone's question and give back one of these days... 

_Mike

Chris at upz USA was super helpful with questions they I had. My questions weren’t size related but he actually reached out to Wolfgang, the owner of upz to get the info I needed. Hit him up if you decide to go the upz rt. Communication was top notch and shipping was fast and from within the states. 

[SunSurfer]

One other thing. Proper foot arch support with an orthotic, custom made to your feet if possible, also helps with minimising heel lift and general boot hold.

There is a relatively recent thread with a link I posted to a YouTube video to show an inexpensive way of making custom orthotics.

Link added

 

Edited yesterday at 01:29 AM by SunSurfer

[slapos]

21 hours ago, Jack M said:

 

They are certainly the highest quality, however they don't work for everyone.  I have a low volume situation where my foot size is at the top end of the shell size, I just couldn't get Zipfits to squeeze in there.

hi Jack,

I am somewhat suprised given all options zipfit provides - have you tried all LV options and removal of OMFIT to create more space?

Definitely highest quality liner - cork compound is miles ahead of foam in terms of quality, hold and retaining shape over the years.

regards

L

[Jack M]

Hi @slapos, yeah, we've been over this.  I tried the Gara Stealth and Corsa, both low volume.  I couldn't even buckle the boot with the Gara Stealth.  I thought the Corsa was going to work but it bunched when flexed (see pic in link), causing pain while riding.  28.4 foot, 28.0 shell.

Intuition Plug Race don't work for me either due to the plastic cuff taking up too much room.  Intuition Plug Wrap are the answer for me.  Only downside is their thinness makes them delicate and over time I squeezed all the padding away from my heel.  Also had to duct tape the back of the heel because it was wearing through.  I forced them to give me 100 days anyway, but I need a new pair.

I'll try 28.5 Zipfits per your recommendation first though.

[dhamann]

29 minutes ago, Jack M said:

their thinness makes them delicate and over time I squeezed all the padding away from my heel.

i bet soft boots wouldn't do that. jk. i've had some pretty worn out powerwraps pushing 100 days too.