heel and toe lift vs flats?

[arcing]

Just got some TD3s and putting them on a Kessler slalom board. I have been getting back to Hbooting again and on my second year back. I have been riding older burton race plates that are flat and enjoyed it. But eager to try some toe and heal lift. I do like the idea of the amount of lift I get with flat TD3s on the zero cants so I can relax my stance angles a little too. Wondering how many of you ride with lifts vs flats? I know its personal preference, but want to do a little polling on what 'most' trenchers do. thanks

[SunSurfer]

@arcingSent you a message.

Appropriate combinations of lift and cant are related to the individual rider's physique and stance choices.

[dredman]

Stances are such a “it works and feels good to me” thing. 
 

I prefer 6degree toe(front) and heel (back) lift with my TD3’s. On F2 I like toe and heel lift but a 3/4inch narrower stance because the lift is a bit less on them. 
 

Tweaking variables and living room carpet riding are a great place to start figuring out YOUR stance. 

[lamby]

I often use flat Ibex/Carve Company for my everyday hardboot resort riding. My wife always rides Ibex/Carve Company with flat front and rear lifted.

For days when I ride my all-mountain powder board I have it set up with f2 Carve RS with no toe or heel lift, but the bindings are set-up with a small amount of inward cant front and rear, which I like.

I have some F2 Race Titaniums that I have used on longer carving boards. I liked to have them set up with toe lift and heel lift, as it enabled a wider stance, which I liked for GS boards.

On my split I use flat Phantoms.

Its fun mixing it up and trying different set-ups.

Regarding the Phantoms on split, they have a small amount of inward cant front and rear, so not exactly flat, but they are flat in regards to toe or heel lift.

[leeho730]

Front toe lift and inward cant 

rear heel lift and inward cant.

 

TD3, I use 3 degrees on the front and either 3 or 6 for the rear.

 

There’s an app to calculate lift and cant on iOS, called TrenchGear 3D.

 

EDIT: Sorry, didn’t realize the app was taken down from App Store…

Edited December 16, 2023 by leeho730

[lafcadio]

I’m used to riding with heel lift on my rear boot (Carve Company and F2s), but on my splitboard, I’m finding the flat (heel to toe) setup of Spark R&D canted pucks difficult to ride in. I’m surprised that Voile, Phantom, and Spark all have flat setups. All three brands provide an option for about 2-3 degrees of inward cant but they’re flat heel to toe. 

I’m sure this will matter less when riding deep pow, but for typical conditions I find it very uncomfortable, especially with the wider stance options I’m forced into on the split setup. I’m looking for ways to add some wedges beneath the pucks or something between the boot and binding to get me some heel lift on my rear foot. 

Anyone else have experience with mods to add additional heel or toe lift when the bindings don’t provide it? 
 

 

[b.free]

I ride with toe lift on front and flat on the rear. No inwards

[yamifumi]

I use SG binding and uses the following:

narrow board (<18.5cm width):
Front = toe lift block with inward cant

Rear = heel lift block only

 

board >19cm width:

Front = toe lift block with inward cant

Rear = heel lift block with inward cant

 

Pow board (26.5cm): the angles of bindings are a lot lower than alpine boards**

Front = toe lift block with inward cant

rear = only inward cant (no heel lift)

 

it also depends on the stance and I prefer narrow stance at 47cm on Alpine boards and 46cm on powder bord. It all depends on what you like. Everyone is different and the one works for me probably won’t work for you.

[arcing]

Thanks folks, I appreciate seeing what you are using. I will definitely experiment with it and I can even my factory prime that is set up flat and some run swapping to compare. 

 

[Aracan]

Angles and boots are important factors here. With lower angles canting tends to make more sense than lift and vice versa. And different boots come with different ramp angles, or, if you will, inbuilt lift.

A real-life example: I ride UPZ with a high front and low rear angle. Since the UPZs come with a lot of ramp, I can just get away with only inward canting on the rear. On the front I use toe lift to compensate for the ramp angle.

[Corey]

If you can't stand comfortably on carpet while watching TV or whatever, it won't get better on the ski hill. So start by adjusting away from any pain points on the carpet. And your partner will think you're cool! 

What do I mean by "adjust away"? If your shin hurts from pressure, adjust the cuff of the boot forward or lift the heel. Left side of leg hurts, adjust cuff to left or cant the binding to the left. Etc. 

Than tweak from there once you're riding. It's much more comfortable (and cheap!) to spend the time on carpet first. 

I run 6 & 6 on TD3s. Almost pure toe and heel lift. 

[pmorita]

I rode my Factory Prime's flat and would get front leg burn right away.  Widening my stance on a new board and adding toe/heel lift was the game changer for me.  

Couldn't agree with Corey more.  Make it work in front of the TV and you will enjoy your day outside.  

Still miss the feeling of my Factory Primes, but you may want to try an upgrade there too. 

[Jack M]

On 12/16/2023 at 4:47 PM, arcing said:

I do like the idea of the amount of lift I get with flat TD3s on the zero cants so I can relax my stance angles a little too.

So.... I think we need to agree on some terms here.  When we say "lift" we're either talking about toe lift (tilting the boot back) or heel lift (tilting the boot forward).  When we say "cant" it means tilting the boot sideways, left or right.  TD3 zero cant discs are flat, they cannot provide any toe lift or heel lift or cant.  A flat disc is not going to make a difference if you change your stance angles.

I'd say only a minority of hardbooters ride with both feet flat.  It is objectively less comfortable and less powerful for most people, due to the simple mechanics of our bodies and the geometry of our stances.

[pokkis]

i've been riding 20 years fully flat but since recent years i added 10mm lift on my back foot more easier and reliable hook up with inserts. I feel that it is just more easier, it did not affect my riding.