rjnakata Posted March 25, 2023 Report Share Posted March 25, 2023 It's a "he said/she said" case and regardless of who is right/wrong here, one thing about the Paltrow lawsuit case is that it is highlighting on national TV skier's responsibility code #2: "People ahead or downhill of you have the right-of-way. You must avoid them." Maybe a person who never knew that will become aware! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabber Posted March 25, 2023 Report Share Posted March 25, 2023 (edited) One of the plaintiff's daughters made a comment about a GoPro video years ago. Would be great if one actually exists/surfaces and we can see what happened. Edited March 25, 2023 by slabber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gawdzira Posted March 25, 2023 Report Share Posted March 25, 2023 Uphill bad. Downhill good. Gavel! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Utah Posted March 26, 2023 Report Share Posted March 26, 2023 This got my wife thinking about GoPros, such as street bikers often have on their helmets. Are we approaching a time where having a front and rear facing helmet cam could be our black box to provide evidence if such an accident occurs? How have some of the members here who have been struck dealt with the legal aspects? My best friend in college was an expert skier who grew up skiing the most challenging terrain at Winter Park. One day in 1991 he was skiing with me as I snowboarded at Copper. He slowed to tell a guy to stop recklessly tailgunning him and as he slowed, the guy ran him over and skied over his face, causing brain damage. What transpired was absolutely horrific and led me to believe the ski areas were ill-equipped to conduct criminal and accident investigations. I rode enduro bikes so I started boarding in my lightweight full face motocross helmet after I saw what a ski can do to a human’s face. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted March 26, 2023 Report Share Posted March 26, 2023 (edited) Reports I've seen talk of a GoPro file emailed by the plaintiff (male retired eye surgeon) to family members but which has now "disappeared". I wonder why..... I have personal experience of a collision captured on GoPro. I interpreted what was recorded to show the other party failing to slow at the merging of trails, their speed contributing substantially to their injuries, which were significant, and to the trashing of their board which rode over the top of my front Bomber Trenchdigger binding mounted on a Boiler Plate launching them into the air. I still have the video file despite the collision occurring 10 years ago. A copy of the video was given to the other party, sadly the wife of another hard boot snowboarder who has been on this forum. They interpreted the video differently. The event occurred in Colorado where the State civil legislation covering such events pretty much covers the whole "Skiers Code" and the party judged more than 50% responsible for the collision and its effects is potentially liable. No court action was taken during the 5 years available after the event before the statute limit kicked in. As a visitor to the USA I had travel insurance including cover for personal liability for injury/loss. That policy precluded any kind of comment about fault by the person covered (any kind of apology by me could potentially be construed as an admission of fault). That made discussions with the other party immediately after the event more difficult. A copy of the video was also provided to my insurance company. No winners in all this. The lady involved was quite badly hurt, her board ruined, and a friendship was, and remains, broken. I do not want to identify the people involved as that does not assist this discussion of the utility of videoing all your time on the slopes. That was recorded with a GoPro Silver 3+ with an extended battery, which could pretty much capture every run I made in a day. My current GoPro 8 runs down pretty quickly on a normal battery. I now run an external USB power pack via a 3BR Powersports X-PWR-H8 case to allow me all day power for the GP8. ( Update April 17 2023 - Powersports cable has died, no power delivered, no obvious damage to connector or external part of cable. Rescind recommendation) I had video that in my opinion supported my side of any argument over contribution of fault. I made sure I had copies! Edited April 17, 2023 by SunSurfer recommended equipment failure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Utah Posted March 26, 2023 Report Share Posted March 26, 2023 We never shared this but now this seems relevant. The following situation could have easily gone very bad, where a recording would have been useful at a trial. @slabber and I were night snowboarding at Sundance. (Chime in here @slabberbecause I may have the details wrong; it all happened very fast) We were on the lift, on our way to disembark at the top. As we were approaching, we saw an adult male beginner skier flopping around on the ground, trying to stand up, but constantly failing. The lift just kept running. He was confused and panicking with no idea low side crawling away was safer than staying in the danger zone and trying to stand. He was so focused on trying to stand and so new to the sport, he never realized each big steel chair was almost wrecking him and passing right over him. He was directly in my path on the inside. His child was standing, watching dad struggle and I think he was in @slabber’s path. Each successive chair kept going right over this guy’s head and body, since he was on the inside, sometimes glancing him. @slabber saw the lifty sitting in his little darkened shack, looking down at something, not paying attention. We managed to get the kid safely out and avoided running into either person with our boards. I had tried to signal the lift attendant to shut down the lift before I focused on dealing with what was in front of me but I failed. I think @slabber was able to get his attention. He came out of the shack way too late, after @slabberand I helped get both safely away and then lifty stopped the lift way too late. Looking back, we could have witnessed someone’s dad get completely destroyed by a chair lift and been testifying at the subsequent trial. Hopefully I haven’t hijacked this thread but it brought up a situation where film may have played a role in a court case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted March 26, 2023 Report Share Posted March 26, 2023 If the report above for a chairlift incident is anything to go by, then a camera system needs to be ready to record at any time. My GoPro 8 is setup for voice control so "GoPro start recording" will pretty reliably make it chirp and start recording. I only recently started using the external battery setup. Setting it "on" but in standby mode from days start is essential and keeps battery and camera warm, especially on cold days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gawdzira Posted March 27, 2023 Report Share Posted March 27, 2023 I was 3' from death last week at Heavenly. I was carving very predictable lines on World Cup (which is a slog to get to along Roundabout). It is a short run at the bottom of the mountain that is used primarily for race training. I checked my line and had about 4-5 turns I could make on the run. This was on a Monday and not crowded at all. I am on my transition to front side turn and a guy passes my back at the apex of my turn about 3' away going at least 50mph. Full straight line skier. If I had not made that turn at that moment we would have both been heading to the hospital or worse. I caught him at the bottom of the hill and said at least 5 of the 7 words you can't say on television. Dude was oblivious to the danger. Probably 20 years old and the only thing he had to say was, "I am not really a carver, more of a straight liner". Hopefully he filled out the organ donor card at DMV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnE Posted March 27, 2023 Report Share Posted March 27, 2023 I do everything I can to avoid collision. Primarily riding on weekdays only. By the time you're trying to figure out fault, it's too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big mario Posted March 27, 2023 Report Share Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) Too many overconfident terminal intermediate spring break straight liners out yesterday, called it after 1.5 hours after getting buzzed a few times, even with multiple six checks, my hope is that this case sheds a bit more light on the skier's responsibility code. Edited March 27, 2023 by big mario 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 27, 2023 Report Share Posted March 27, 2023 They both claim to have been the downhill skier. Paltrow describes two skis coming between hers from behind. Unless she's just lying that doesn't sound good for the other guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted March 27, 2023 Report Share Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) On 3/26/2023 at 8:29 AM, CB Utah said: ski areas were ill-equipped to conduct criminal and accident investigations. The ski areas don't care after your out of their hands and the incident reports are usually indecisive as to blame unless a liquor bottle or six pack is visible when Patrol arrives. I know most of the Patrol here at Squaw and they have so many accidents/incidents your just a number that day. In my situation from my $40,000 Life Flight, which I don't even remember and the $60,000 hospital bill for my 3 hour stay, No they didn't even keep me overnight! The $100,000+ bill is what got attention. Thankfully I was working and WC covered it all but they went after the other guy and there is litigation against him......really don't know what or why their grounds are except hoping his insurance will cover/repay some of that 100k they already paid out. As to cameras.........I do a 100-150 miles a week road biking and I have a Fly6 bike light/camera unit on my seatpost for covering my backside. Thank goodness haven't need it yet accident wise but I feel it does provide me with some peace of mind just in case! Hmm....I put in 100+ days on the mtn. .....maybe I ought to start wearing it on the slopes.!!! https://cycliq.com/bike-cameras/ Edited March 27, 2023 by barryj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big mario Posted March 27, 2023 Report Share Posted March 27, 2023 curious as to where his ribs were broken, that would tell the story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted March 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Jack M said: They both claim to have been the downhill skier. Paltrow describes two skis coming between hers from behind. Unless she's just lying that doesn't sound good for the other guy. What doesn't make sense is she said she heard grunting and he was there 2-3 seconds. That doesn't sound like a collision to me. The doctor says he broke ribs on his left side consistent with being hit... Also reducing the suit from $3M to $300K is a strange thing for him to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 27, 2023 Report Share Posted March 27, 2023 2 hours ago, rjnakata said: Also reducing the suit from $3M to $300K is a strange thing for him to do. IIRC, the $3M suit was tossed out by a judge, so this is try two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted March 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2023 In any case, fault boils down to who was the uphill/downhill skier. Awareness of this is good for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted March 27, 2023 Report Share Posted March 27, 2023 5 hours ago, Jack M said: Unless she's just lying that doesn't sound good for the other guy. Wouldn't put it past her. She lies for a living, both as an actress and hawking snake oil on her goop website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortcutToMoncton Posted March 27, 2023 Report Share Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) On a far more harmless clueless note, yesterday at the hill with my kid I held the lodge door open for the young woman behind me and realized she was holding her snowboard. I looked at her, pointedly at the snowboard, gave what I think was a bemused look, but she obliviously breezed past and down the hall, waving her board around. We followed her to the ladies washroom and she went in ahead of my girl, still carrying her board. My kid came out first and told me that the lady had brought her snowboard into the stall with her. We went to grab a bite to eat upstairs and while standing in line at the cafeteria she comes up the stairs still holding her snowboard and fumbles herself through the caf turnstile, getting herself half-stuck in the process of trying to get the snowboard through. Finally some staff noticed her standing in line with a snowboard in one arm and a lunch tray in the other hand and yelled to take her board outside, at which she turned and tried to squeeze backwards through the turnstile, which obviously didn’t work. Someone directed her out through the pay lineup and she clipped a handheld card machine with her binding on the way through, knocking it to the floor. No broken ribs, but it was beautiful no-rules lunchtime entertainment! Edited March 27, 2023 by ShortcutToMoncton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabber Posted March 28, 2023 Report Share Posted March 28, 2023 On 3/26/2023 at 1:44 PM, CB Utah said: We never shared this but now this seems relevant. The following situation could have easily gone very bad, where a recording would have been useful at a trial. @slabber and I were night snowboarding at Sundance. (Chime in here @slabberbecause I may have the details wrong; it all happened very fast) We were on the lift, on our way to disembark at the top. As we were approaching, we saw an adult male beginner skier flopping around on the ground, trying to stand up, but constantly failing. The lift just kept running. He was confused and panicking with no idea low side crawling away was safer than staying in the danger zone and trying to stand. He was so focused on trying to stand and so new to the sport, he never realized each big steel chair was almost wrecking him and passing right over him. He was directly in my path on the inside. His child was standing, watching dad struggle and I think he was in @slabber’s path. Each successive chair kept going right over this guy’s head and body, since he was on the inside, sometimes glancing him. @slabber saw the lifty sitting in his little darkened shack, looking down at something, not paying attention. We managed to get the kid safely out and avoided running into either person with our boards. I had tried to signal the lift attendant to shut down the lift before I focused on dealing with what was in front of me but I failed. I think @slabber was able to get his attention. He came out of the shack way too late, after @slabberand I helped get both safely away and then lifty stopped the lift way too late. Looking back, we could have witnessed someone’s dad get completely destroyed by a chair lift and been testifying at the subsequent trial. Hopefully I haven’t hijacked this thread but it brought up a situation where film may have played a role in a court case. I don't think the lifty ever came out iirc? The father was on telemark skis I think so already a messy situation on the ground. He was looking out for his kid and not realizing the chairs kept coming and definitely got clocked in the head by one. Definitely not cool. We told the attractive female lifty at the base about dude at the top and he was outside our next chair up looking busy . Dude was definitely focused on his phone when the father and son got rocked. Totally not doing his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabber Posted March 28, 2023 Report Share Posted March 28, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, barryj said: As to cameras.........I do a 100-150 miles a week road biking and I have a Fly6 bike light/camera unit on my seatpost for covering my backside. Thank goodness haven't need it yet accident wise but I feel it does provide me with some peace of mind just in case! Hmm....I put in 100+ days on the mtn. .....maybe I ought to start wearing it on the slopes.!!! https://cycliq.com/bike-cameras/ I also use a Fly6 on the road bike and on the MTB when riding to the trailhead. Totally eliminates the he said/she said BS. Same reason I use a dashcam in our cars. I started using the Fly6 after an altercation with a police officer who buzzed me intentionally years ago. Told me he was 'driving his cruiser the way it was meant to be driven' when passing me at same time there was oncoming traffic in the opposite lane. I often wear a light daypack while skiing snowboarding. Might be interesting to strap the Fly6 on it. The strobing LEDs might be a bit over the top (they can be disabled) but at the same time, they couldn't hurt either actually. Would be difficult for the uphill person to say they never saw you. Edited March 28, 2023 by slabber I snowboard, not ski ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted March 28, 2023 Report Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 hour ago, slabber said: Might be interesting to strap the Fly6 on it. Considering my post collision anxiety with crowds and visibility now, I'm seriously considering trying it....with the flashing strobe! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortcutToMoncton Posted March 28, 2023 Report Share Posted March 28, 2023 I personally don’t put much stock into bright-coloured outfits being less susceptible to collisions. Having said that, flashing lights and a huge-font sign THIS RIDER MAKES WIDE TURNS! is definitely getting creative. Please go for it. Also post pics for my, uhhh, research purposes…. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted March 28, 2023 Report Share Posted March 28, 2023 Listening to the youtube clips of the proceedings I don't think the Doc. has a snowballs chance in Hell! They both may be at fault but they have established/documented the Doc. was behind her..... Case Closed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted March 28, 2023 Report Share Posted March 28, 2023 I'm not disagreeing, but have they? I know she said that, but do they have other evidence to show that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted March 28, 2023 Report Share Posted March 28, 2023 16 minutes ago, philw said: but have they? It's documented and in evidence by the Instructors incident/accident report. At the time of the incident they both declined Patrols assistance when they showed up ............... but of course the defense is saying the Instructor only said that to protect his future tip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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