Constructive criticism sought

[patmoore]

Just now, drschwartz said:

Can’t seem to  be post the video. Says file too large. Will try again later

Maybe upload it to YouTube.  You can specify "unlisted" and just share the URL.

[patmoore]

Sunsurfer - thanks for the suggestions.  I used to ride 60/55 but now it's more like 52/48.  No harm in trying the higher angles again.  Rain expected tomorrow but I hope to get out for a few runs.

I have the soft orange tongues in the Strato Pros and had the boots softened by John Philkill a few years ago.  I'm pretty happy with them. 

I wish the season could go on a little longer!

[SunSurfer]

@patmooreh. The binding angles are only a small part of the equation. If you just change those but don't change how you ride there will be little change in your turns. I have ridden with bindings around 60 degrees since I began and I rode a little like you, carving long radius turns with modest board angles, and a relatively stiff posture. It was the change in the way I "feel" the board that produced a really significant improvement in my riding and ability to soak up the bumps in the snow.

[patmoore]

6 hours ago, SunSurfer said:

@patmooreh. The binding angles are only a small part of the equation. If you just change those but don't change how you ride there will be little change in your turns. I have ridden with bindings around 60 degrees since I began and I rode a little like you, carving long radius turns with modest board angles, and a relatively stiff posture. It was the change in the way I "feel" the board that produced a really significant improvement in my riding and ability to soak up the bumps in the snow.

Good advice.  I have a gymnastics background (did my last standing backflip on my 50th birthday).  Maybe that will help.  

I just noticed you're from Wellington.  My wife and I really enjoyed our visit there especially the Te Papa Museum.   The small thumbnail photo below was a wrist mounted GoPro shot of my bungy (I think that's how you spell it in NZ) jump at the Nevis Gorge in 2015.  New Zealand ranks #1 of all the places we've visited.  https://www.youtube.com/c/PatandPennysTravelChannelVideos/videos

Edited April 12, 2022 by patmoore

[patmoore]

Sunsurfer - I looked up your Snowmass results. Impressive!  I didn’t answer your question about heel and toe lift. I have 2 degrees on both.  

I’m 173 cm tall and have been using a 48 cm stance a little rear of center. I may try widening it slightly. 

Rain is forecast until late morning. Hope there will be snow left. 
 

Thanks everyone for the very helpful suggestions!

Edited April 12, 2022 by patmoore

[SunSurfer]

Standard F2 thick/thin wedge set produces about 4 degrees of lift per binding. Both are needed to create the same slope on the heel and toe pieces of one binding. 

At binding angles around 60 degrees people whose body proportions are within 2SD of the mean generally don't need any canting, just front toe lift and rear heel lift.

You may have already seen this video I made about the inter-relationship between rider physique, stance distance, binding angles, and how that affects the need for binding lift and canting. Heaven knows, I've linked it to a fair number of threads.

https://youtu.be/mBTTJMo6Me4

Edited April 12, 2022 by SunSurfer

[patmoore]

How is it I've never seen your video before?    Extremely well done and highly professional.  

I stand corrected on the amount of heel and toe lift.  I don't have any way to measure it but I suspect I do have 4 degrees on both on my F2s.  

 

Canting would have been an issue in the past (see below) but I got a new knee three years ago and both are perfectly aligned now.

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by patmoore

[philw]

18 hours ago, barryj said:

You look relaxed and comfortable doing those wide S turns and you're carrying a lot of speed but that F2 board at that length and scr is more of a SL board and Really Wants To Turn.....but it's not getting  the message ....and turning will get you lower! ...

I was surprised at that. Those race plates maybe don't make it easier to bend, and depending on the F2, well the one I have requires a lot of force to be applied to make it turn. It not that the board is designed for winning races, as opposed to turning a lot? Perhaps the two things need different set ups?



 

[Neil Gendzwill]

The board is designed for winning slalom races which means turning a lot I should think. 

[Jack M]

Hi Pat, I'm going to respond as if you were my age (48), because I don't know what is possible when you're 75, or what your specific body will allow.  I hope I am still getting after it like you when I am 75.  Also I'm not sure this is the best slope to showcase your abilities.  It seems a little too gentle to be able to ride it more dynamically.

All that said, I think your biggest issue is that you rotate your hips and shoulders to the right on a heelside turn.  It's subtle or undetectable on some turns, but it's revealed on other turns.  The biggest telltale is that your left hand wants to swing right.  This is simply a less balanced, less mobile position.

The goal is for your hips and shoulders to stay aligned with your front binding angle throughout the turn.  You may need to try to feel like you're facing the nose of the board on heelside in order to actually accomplish this.  LOOK over your shoulder into the turn, pressure the edge, lean, bend your knees, carve.  Do not sit into the turn.  You can also drive into the heelside turn with your front hand and reach your back hand forward and down towards your front foot toes.  If you're not doing all this the board will get ahead of you and next thing you know you're sideways and sitting on the toilet.

The best way to screw this all up is to look straight downhill.  You can't do anything right if you're not looking where you want the carve to go - across the hill.  This has so many benefits.  Body alignment, technique, speed control, turn size control, and it visually removes steepness from the trail.

Also there is very little up/down in your turns and you are not finishing your turns (again, not sure this slope would allow much of either).  You're just standing on the sidecut, riding it for a while, then changing sides.  You can finish your turns more definitively by giving the edge angle a pop when you're about to change edges.  This starts either a cross-under or cross-over movement that shoots up through your body from your ankles.

Hope this helps.

[patmoore]

3 hours ago, Jack M said:

The goal is for your hips and shoulders to stay aligned with your front binding angle throughout the turn. 

Mike Trapp had told me that.  Thanks for the reminder and all the other suggestions.  The rain stopped and I went out to implement the ideas. Unfortunately, the season is really over in southern Vermont.  I adapted to the 60/55 fairly quickly with more of roll the ankles than a heel/toe maneuver and tried to complete the turns across the hill but wound up dodging slush, rocks, puddles, and bare spots.  It was one and done and it wasn't pretty.  I'll bookmark all the great advice for next season.  

 

 

[dredman]

Sorry to sound like a broken record, Montucky Clear CUT clinics.  6 professional instructors, 1 former World Cup Coach and 2 former World Cup Racers…Clinics daily for all abilities.

[patmoore]

11 hours ago, dredman said:

Sorry to sound like a broken record, Montucky Clear CUT clinics.  6 professional instructors, 1 former World Cup Coach and 2 former World Cup Racers…Clinics daily for all abilities.

I would really love to.  My job as NASTAR coordinator and pacesetter at Okemo precludes being able to take the time off.  I'm trying to hire someone to lessen my load and participate in more things like Montucky.

[Neil Gendzwill]

It’s work-related training! Your boss should be footing the bill. 

[Jack M]

10 hours ago, patmoore said:

My job as NASTAR coordinator and pacesetter at Okemo precludes being able to take the time off.

[big mario]

Dropping your back knee a little will help bring your hips around

[patmoore]

12 hours ago, Jack M said:

Since I took this job sixteen years ago I haven't had any time off in the winter.  I've told them I'm getting too old to be lugging and setting up fencing three days a week. My fear is that if I quit, they'll just drop the program.  If anyone from southern Vermont is interested, you need to be able to set a race course and get certified as a pacesetter on skis.  Good computer skills needed.  PM me if interested.  I really would like to get out and attend clinics, etc.  I put together a short video of what the job entails a few years ago.

 

[johnasmo]

We're always balanced against the same amount of gravity.  Getting lower means either turning sharper or going faster.  Steeper terrain makes speed available, but lets you control it by turning sharper.  So ironically, to avoid going dangerously faster, you have to seek out steeper runs.

I just hope to be walking without a cane at 75.  The way I feel when I stand up from my computer doesn't bode well.  Turning gates and winning races tells me you're doing just fine.  Don't injure out in pursuit of somebody else's style, refine your own day-by-day through self-analysis.

[Jack M]

@patmoore j/k, I was calling BS on the situation, not that I didn’t believe you. It’s BS that Okemo’s NASTAR system relies on one person and can’t function without you for a week. As a former NASTAR racer myself I appreciate the work of a course setter and pacesetter!

[patmoore]

I tried one last day at Killngton but spent my time avoiding dirt and rocks.  Golf season is here...

 I did find a very short clip a friend shot earlier in the season. 

 

[patmoore]

As a subscriber to Outside Magazine (they own NASTAR) I discovered that I could download a picture pack from the Nationals for free.  This was one of the shots they got of me.    I'm really looking forward to next year to try the technique suggestions you guys have come up with.

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by patmoore

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Hello Pat, 

To do what you’re doing at 75 is incredible. I’m early 40s and after a number of nagging hip and leg injuries over the past five years that kept me off the board and pretty down (a torn hip flexor that just wouldn’t heal right being the worst one), seeing you out there riding and having fun is frankly inspiring.

I have zero qualifications to give you advice, unlike these other guys here. But my experience has also been that positioning the hips, upper body, arms and eyes (head) makes the biggest difference to my level of carving.

So I’ll throw this out there—one thing I did many years ago is get a soft black foam pipe liner and cut it maybe 18-24 inches wider than my shoulders (whatever felt good for my normal stance). Pool foam also works but I found it harder to grab with mittens. And then I brought it to the hill and spent a few weeks concentrating on trying to keep that bar always parallel to the snow and almost perpendicular across the board (always out in front of you).

I think you’ll find it surprisingly hard. What keeping it parallel to the snow does is force your hands and shoulders to be more or less in the right place for keeping your upper body away from the snow (driving your weight down onto the edge). And by keeping it perpendicular across your board, your hips, shoulders and hands are forced to keep rotating forward throughout your turns, instead of opening up early on your heelside.

If you combine that with Jack’s best advice on looking across the hill (especially on heelside), I think you’ll find yourself carving tighter turns across the hill fall line.

Something to think about as a cheap and easy method that would force you to approach things a little differently. And for the love of all that’s holy make sure you use soft foam and not a cut off broom stick which 17-year-old me discovered is one of the dumbest ways to impale yourself at a high rate of speed….

Have a great summer and enjoy the grandkids!!

[west carven]

howdy

some crazy russians ... first part is good arm position then second part is making fun of bad arm positions ... 

 

[patmoore]

Hysterical!   Love the lost skier trying to negotiate his way through the forest of carvers at the 4:30 mark and the innovative technique at 6:30.

[patmoore]

Thanks ShortcutToMoncton!  I'm looking forward to trying all the suggestions.

14 hours ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

Hello Pat, 

To do what you’re doing at 75 is incredible. I’m early 40s and after a number of nagging hip and leg injuries over the past five years that kept me off the board and pretty down (a torn hip flexor that just wouldn’t heal right being the worst one), seeing you out there riding and having fun is frankly inspiring.

I have zero qualifications to give you advice, unlike these other guys here. But my experience has also been that positioning the hips, upper body, arms and eyes (head) makes the biggest difference to my level of carving.

So I’ll throw this out there—one thing I did many years ago is get a soft black foam pipe liner and cut it maybe 18-24 inches wider than my shoulders (whatever felt good for my normal stance). Pool foam also works but I found it harder to grab with mittens. And then I brought it to the hill and spent a few weeks concentrating on trying to keep that bar always parallel to the snow and almost perpendicular across the board (always out in front of you).

I think you’ll find it surprisingly hard. What keeping it parallel to the snow does is force your hands and shoulders to be more or less in the right place for keeping your upper body away from the snow (driving your weight down onto the edge). And by keeping it perpendicular across your board, your hips, shoulders and hands are forced to keep rotating forward throughout your turns, instead of opening up early on your heelside.

If you combine that with Jack’s best advice on looking across the hill (especially on heelside), I think you’ll find yourself carving tighter turns across the hill fall line.

Something to think about as a cheap and easy method that would force you to approach things a little differently. And for the love of all that’s holy make sure you use soft foam and not a cut off broom stick which 17-year-old me discovered is one of the dumbest ways to impale yourself at a high rate of speed….

Have a great summer and enjoy the grandkids!!

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by patmoore