Nidecker Spectre - too deep sidecut? (7.9 m Sidecut Radius on 168)

[Skahw]

5 minutes ago, daveo said:

 

@Skahw Can you show me specs of the boards that were suggested for you? I'm curious to see.

BX169/14.5:
Mat.: T
Weight kg: 70-80
Stiffness: M
Width mm: 259
Stance mm: 510/550/590
Nose: medium
Tail: medium

BX169/17:
Mat.: T
Weight kg: 70-80
Stiffness: M
Width mm: 259
Stance mm: 550
Nose: medium
Tail: comp

BX169/17:
Mat.: C
Weight kg: 70-80
Stiffness: M
Width mm: 269
Stance mm: 560/600
Nose: medium
Tail: comp

[daveo]

@Skahw Kinda feel like a P-1 170/10/278 might be better for you than a BX board... Have you considered one?

From that list, surely the 169/14.5 is the one.

Edited April 27, 2021 by daveo

[wulf]

I have the impression you want to "cure" lack of technique by buying new boards. That might not work. 

You want to carve like the Korua guys. You have a Korua board and a bunch of others. But you cannot ride like these guys in the video. So the natural solution is to work on your technique rather that buying new gear.

 

Food for thought...

[Skahw]

9 minutes ago, wulf said:

I have the impression you want to "cure" lack of technique by buying new boards. That might not work. 

You want to carve like the Korua guys. You have a Korua board and a bunch of others. But you cannot ride like these guys in the video. So the natural solution is to work on your technique rather that buying new gear.

 

Food for thought...

Well with the right technique you are always better, for sure. An olympian winner could destroy every one of us with just a capita slush slasher. But wouldn't make it easier for him.

I do not want to ride exactly like the guys in the korua video. I DO ride like them, thats why I picked the video. And I like my style and want to keep it. I just want to leave out the sidehits and I want the sidecut to feel a bit more stable. 1200mm isnt much for 194.

13 minutes ago, daveo said:

@Skahw Kinda feel like a P-1 170/10/278 might be better for you than a BX board... Have you considered one?

From that list, surely the 169/14.5 is the one.

Seems like you also have the updated list!
The P-1 170/10/278 is exactly on there. 

To be honest, I do not know what the different between a BX and P-1 board is. But its waist width is HUGE!
 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Skahw
gramma

[wulf]

1200mm effective edge IS enough with wider body shapes. I am 185cm@90kg. Had a Dupraz board with less than 120cm EE. Carved like crazy (with hardboots) and was stable at speed. It is technique. Or lack of board stiffness.  Korua, the older version where probably a noodle. The later ones produced by Nobil in Poland are of way better quality.

 

Again: Food for thought

 

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by wulf

[daveo]

21 minutes ago, Skahw said:

Seems like you also have the updated list!
The P-1 170/10/278 is exactly on there. 

To be honest, I do not know what the different between a BX and P-1 board is. But its waist width is HUGE!
 

The P-1 is a freeride board that can carve. The BX is a board that can race snowboard cross and carve.

The huge waist width is there for a reason  At 9 degrees, you need even more than 278..

Edited April 27, 2021 by daveo

[Skahw]

I only have the 9 degrees because of the width with of my korua stealth. I would like to ride it more positive for this board when its not too wide.

The BX169/17:
Mat.: T
Weight kg: 70-80
Stiffness: M
Width mm: 259
Stance mm: 550
Nose: medium
Tail: comp

actually sound okay imo. It's titanal, 169 long, with a good waist width. Just the 17 meters sidecut... 
As I have stated I like to ride long drawn out carves at high relatively high speed. I am not that interested in tighter carves on this board. Maybe 17 meters would be exactly made for those wide carves. But maybe 14.5 is already enough for that, I dont know. 500€ just sound way more attractive than 800€.

[daveo]

3 minutes ago, Skahw said:

I only have the 9 degrees because of the width with of my korua stealth. I would like to ride it more positive for this board when its not too wide.

The BX169/17:
Mat.: T
Weight kg: 70-80
Stiffness: M
Width mm: 259
Stance mm: 550
Nose: medium
Tail: comp

actually sound okay imo. It's titanal, 169 long, with a good waist width. Just the 17 meters sidecut... 
As I have stated I like to ride long drawn out carves at high relatively high speed. I am not that interested in tighter carves on this board. Maybe 17 meters would be exactly made for those wide carves. But maybe 14.5 is already enough for that, I dont know. 500€ just sound way more attractive than 800€.

Then buy it?

[Skahw]

5 minutes ago, daveo said:

Then buy it?

Yeah, but here were some plausible counterwords regarding the sidecut radius.

The biggest sidecut radius that I have experienced were 12.44m on the Capita Slush Slasher. But that is is a short rocker heavy party board, so that doesnt really count.

It just worries me a little that@David Kirk even bought a new board to switch from 17m to 14.5m Thats a lot a money.

[daveo]

1 minute ago, Skahw said:

Yeah, but here were some plausible counterwords regarding the sidecut radius.

The biggest sidecut radius that I have experienced were 12.44m on the Capita Slush Slasher. But that is is a short rocker heavy party board, so that doesnt really count.

It just worries me a little that@David Kirk even bought a new board to switch from 17m to 14.5m Thats a lot a money.

So buy the 14.5m, then?

[David Kirk]

7 hours ago, Skahw said:

Yeah, but here were some plausible counterwords regarding the sidecut radius.

The biggest sidecut radius that I have experienced were 12.44m on the Capita Slush Slasher. But that is is a short rocker heavy party board, so that doesnt really count.

It just worries me a little that@David Kirk even bought a new board to switch from 17m to 14.5m Thats a lot a money.

I watched some of the video you shared and here's my take....I think for that style of carving that the 17m radius would be longer than optimal. On less steep slopes you'll spend much of the run trying to get up to the speed needed to turn the board hard and after a hard carve your speed will be too low and you'll need to let it run again to get speed for the next turn. This is a boring way to ride IMO. On steep slopes you might have trouble controlling speed because the bigger turn keeps you in the fall line longer and it can be hard to keep speed in check and not be "that guy" who rides so fast and straight down the hill that it endangers others.

If I were you and I wanted to ride like in that video I'd go with a shorter radius than 17m. How short? I can't say. I chose 14.5 m but I can't say that is the right number for you.

dave

[Mr.E]

I may have missed it, but what are you curently riding? 14+meter sidecuts are big, especially for softboots, unless you know you like it. Jumping on a carve oriented freeride/ BX shape from any of the race makers is going to be a big jump up in performance over almost any typical all mountain or new-school style "carve" shape. 

 

[slopestar]

Alloy azx1 163 14.6

Alloy DO 165 12.5avg

next season... Hermès! 

azx1 here:

 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by slopestar

[nextcarve]

I would choose my sidecut radius depending on where I ride and how much space I have at my disposal. If you mostly ride crowded places or narrow slopes, go for the smaller sidecut. On open slopes with fewer people, I love to make long turns on large sidecut radius. Thats why I mostly ride GS board with sidecuts lager than 18m. But I have enough space and it's not crowded. Also I don't get hit by some mad downhill bomber, because our slopes are visible from a long way.

Regarding a softboot board with 17m; This seams to be a bit long in relation to the relativelly "short" edge it has. If you ride longer Radius you automatically need higher speed and therefore a longer edge provides the needed stability (e.g. GS Boards are >=185cm, eff. edge ±170cm).

Probably 14.5m is the right choice for carving and 17m is more for the border cross athletes, where not carving but speed is the main purpose. And after all 14.5m is not a small sidecut at all.

But Ryan seems to be happy with 18m

 

[slopestar]

what works for Ryan wont work for most. Three strap bindings with highbacks up to the back of his knees

 

[nextcarve]

12 minutes ago, slopestar said:

what works for Ryan wont work for most. Three strap bindings with highbacks up to the back of his knees

 

That's why there are some more serious sentences in the beginning of my comment and a smilie at the end of the last sentence 
 

Edited April 28, 2021 by nextcarve

[johnasmo]

Lots of talk about sidecuts in this thread, but little about flex.  If you're not ordering a custom board, you better pay more attention to flex and suggested rider weight.  Sidecut is not like a dial where you can turn up and down turn size and speed; there's more to it than that.

From my experience, flex is a stronger determinant of turn size and speed than sidecut.  A stiff board with a tight sidecut will still run fast and big in soft snow.  A soft board with a long sidecut will still run slow and tight in soft snow.  It's only on icy or very firm hardpack where you will notice them fighting each other if they are not well matched to the speed you are trying to go.  And in the end, flex will win out as the stronger determinant.

It's natural to think of sidecut as what you choose first, as if it's driving the bus, but it's only one of several factors influencing the deformed shape of the board as it carves.  It might be more useful to see sidecut as an output rather than an input.  I.e. Something calculated to balance the flexing forces against the board's stiffness using the traction from penetration and compaction of the snow to achieve the flexed shape a given speed and turn size requires.

Generally it will be true that stiff and straight will turn big and fast while soft and tight will turn slow and small, but there's a lot of leeway to be creative tuning the sidecut to taste since the stiffness is the stronger determinant of turn size for a given speed.

[NateW]

A couple random things...

Custom is great because you don't have to hunt through catalogs for the right set of specs. And you can get the flex you want too - especially if you start by buying someone else's used (therefore cheap) board from that same manufacturer. That gives you a baseline for your real board. And the used board becomes a backup or get sold to the next person...

Sidecut radius is a very personal thing, and I think it largely it correlates with how fast you ride. Every sidecut radius has a corresponding speed range - if you're too slow, you'll need to skid more because the board won't want to turn, and if you're too fast, physics just won't allow a carve. So if you want to carve everywhere you go, you want a radius that will accommodate the speeds you will be riding at.

For me, the sweet spot is 13m. I have a board with a 15m sidecut that I sometimes ride on mid-week days (fewer crowds, more open space), and it's fun, but to make the most of it I need to be riding a little faster than I generally want to. Which admittedly goes hand in hand with having a comfort zone that corresponds to the 13m boards I've been riding for the last 15 years or so.

If you make a big step up in sidecut radius, you will need some time to adjust, but do not let that deter you. You will adjust. You'll adjust to riding faster, you'll adjust to skidding rather than carving in low-speed areas.

I still remember the first couple runs on a 13m board, after 10m was the longest SCR I'd ever ridden. I'd put the board up on edge and lean in to turn... and it felt like the board just kept going straight, and I'd just tip over into the snow. Then I started riding faster, and I recalibrated my expectations, and after a few more runs I was loving it. 

I also found that 13m aligns very well with leaning way into the carves and getting horizontal. At 10m, it was hard. The turns end up so tight it feels like my head stops moving and my feet arc around it. At 13m it finally clicked. 15m works fine too. I tried stepping down to 11.5 later, but wasn't as happy. This is more about personal preference than anything absolute, but like I said 13m is where the sweet spot is for me. 

You said you wanted a board for bombing down the mountain, so I'd go with at least a 10m sidecut. And definitely don't be afraid to go bigger. Sure it will feel weird at first, but that will pass.

What's the biggest sidecut radius you've got in your quiver right now? Add 25%. Expand your horizons.

[Skahw]

7 hours ago, NateW said:

What's the biggest sidecut radius you've got in your quiver right now? Add 25%. Expand your horizons.

A Jones Flagship with 9,3m. And a Capita Slush Slasher with 12,44 (but that doesnt count, cause its a rocker, short party board).
I think I'll go with 12m

[daveo]

11 minutes ago, Skahw said:

I think I'll go with 12m

I think that's sensible.